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Schefter: Cassel (and Vrabel) to Chiefs for 2009 2nd-rounder [merged]


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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

They could have at the very least wapped positions with the Cheifs in the 3rd or 4th round, or add a conditional 2010 pick. This seems pretty weak to just toss of Vrabel for NOTHING. And it is not like the Pats have his replacement waiting in the wings (be forewarned anyone who mentions Woods, he's horrible). The Pats are left with 2 starting LBs (Mayo and Thomas) 1 aging old warhorse, the potential that is Crable, TBC, and Alexander and Mr. I can't recover a fumble.

But the season doesnt start today, lets see what plans they have, maybe a FA or another trade.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

In Bill We Trust.

..thats all I can fall back on.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

I trust Belichick to be far too smart to piss away Cassel's return value just for the opportunity cost of a Leigh Bodden.

Really? You think it's worth waiting 8-14 days and missing out on 3-4 solid FA types like Bodden in order to improve the Cassel compensation from #34 to #21 or #23? I don't.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

Really? You think it's worth waiting 8-14 days and missing out on 3-4 solid FA types like Bodden in order to improve the Cassel compensation from #34 to #21 or #23? I don't.

You realize that today was day 2 of free agency, right? You realize that Bodden's no great shakes, right?

As for the difference from #34 to #21 or #23, it's a huge difference. You get a better prospect AND a longer contract.
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

The reason why we are mad is because there are many teams out there with plenty of cap room and no QB. So you're telling me that a team like Tampa Bay with 60 million in cap room with the 20th overall selection and no QB didn't want to trade for Matt Cassel? In fact, the Chiefs were the only team that would trade for Matt Cassel? How does Matt Shaub require more compensation to get him out of Atlanta than Matt Cassel? Complete bull****!

That's exactly what you should be told.
Got back from months in Tampa today.
ZERO interest in Matt Cassel there.
Should there have been? Yes, most certainly. But given the stupidity of NFL coaches and GMs, it is what it is.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

my 2 cents worth...

on first glance it is hard not to think that KC (Pioli) got the better end of the deal. Then again - with the Pats cap situation as it was - they sooner they moved Matt, the better. Now they can use the money to chase some decent FA's instead of just bottom of the barrel JAG's. Or contract extentions to Wilfork, or any of a number of core players whose contracts are up next year.

So Pats 'backs were against the wall' which means they could not get more than they gave in this deal. Remember, it is not just the player for picks exchange - it is the $$ the other team will have to shell out for Cassell - probably 10-14 mill per year for many years. With very little tape on him as he didn't play at USC. Yes he looked great this year (and ONLY this year) but then again the Pats have away of making the players better than they are. (the whole is greater than the sum of the parts).

IF PATS HAD GOTTEN A BETTER OFFER - THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT.

Sorry to scream but I can't stress the last sentence enough. The time to move Cassell was NOW. You can't just expect him to be traded (for a good trade) in training camp. It is not just enough that another team wants him - it is also that another team can AFFORD him under their cap for the next 4-6 years. An in a few weeks most teams probably would have tied up most of their cap space (minus draft rookie pool).

Obviously, the Vrable throw in makes it quite confusing. BB has always shown great respect for his players - cutting Vets early in TC so they could possibly sign with another team and so on....

So there must be much more to the Vrable situation than meets the eye. He certainly didn't look last season like the Vrable of former days. And BB sees him every day in practice and knows (any) medical situation as well. So I will trust BB on this......If he was going to be a cap casualty - better to send him to a non-divisional competitor as a goodwill gesture while he makes the final 4 million on his last remaining year on his contract.

Now that is one less (starting) OLB for Pats in 2009. BUT:
1) Pats have some young bodies there (Woods, Crable, Vince Redd, TBC is back and also Guyton is a possibility). Pats Fans - we all know that non of them is as good as a declining Vrable. Granted. BUT these young guys are NOT going to get any better sitting on the bench. Just look at Cassell - he improved by PLAYING on Sundays. Not as much by just practicing the last 4 years (see pre-season 2008 game tape).

2) This should be a pretty good to great draft for OLB and DE tweeners. As more and more teams start transitioning to 3-4 defenses, better to get some of those players NOW.

3) Pats are now loaded with first day picks. Yes - I would have loved to get a 1st rounder for Cassell (Vrable). But not any later round picks (say 4th for Vrable or such which won't make the team and just end up on another teams (Clevelands) practice squad. So better to get as high a pick as possible instead (#34) instead of a 3rd and a 4th. If another team had offered more than the 34th pick - BB would have taken it!

How does the draft round chosen matter. It was just stated recently in one of the national writers how most of the Pro Bowl players were from 1st or 2nd rounds (duh!). Plus the following:
Team-by-team analysis: Judging without grades - NFL - CBSSports.com Football
I did a 10-year study on the draft to judge the success rate of players selected in each round. I defined a successful player as one who is starting four years after being drafted. Four years gives him a chance to prove himself, and if you are not starting after four years you will probably be replaced on the roster. The results were as follows:
Round 1 -- 75 percent
Round 2 -- 50 percent
Round 3 -- 30 percent
Round 4 -- 25 percent
Round 5 -- 20 percent
Round 6 -- 9 percent
Round 7 -- 9 percent


Summary: while the trade is more of a benefit to KC than to NE - it was a necessary evil for Pats to move Cassel as early as possible and the extra cap space plus pick #34 for a former 7th rounder is a blessing. Vrable (thanks for the good times) was declining and not exactly cheap at $4 Mill a year. It gives playing time for growth of our OLB core and hopefully Mike will be replaced at OLB at pick # 23 (Matthews?) or at # 34 (Connor Barwin?).

P.S. Don't worry - be Happy!
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

THe only reasonable conclusion to this lopsided deal is that Bill is doing Pioli a HUGE favor. No other explanation to give up the assets we gave up for only a second round pick. Cap releif? We would have gotten cap releif whenever we traded Cassel. It's not like there's any urgency to get cap relief for a free agent we have to sign. Bodden? Ray Lewis? I don't think so. The market for young and rising backup QBs was set by the AJ Feely deal followed by the Schaub deal. The Eagles netted a second round pick straight up for Feely. Feely only started a handful of games. The Falcons meanwhile netted 2 second round picks for starting a handful of games. And we only received one second round pick for a QB who at time played like he was one of the games best QBs and a versatile OLB like Vrabel? Keep in mind that Cassel played the ENTIRE year and progressed during the course and towards the end was considered a top 10 QB in the league. Plus he is young, mobile, strong arm, makes the correct decisions, and is competitive. Why would we only get a second round pick for JUST HIM ALONE? Why not a 3rd round pick next year? Or some other compensatory pick? So the only reasonable conclusion is that Bill is doing a HUGE favor to Scott because Bill is much smarter than this.

Put it this way, if another team had given up a QB like Cassel AND their most versatile defensive player for only a second round pick, we'd all be laughing our butts off.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Let's not forget that we have the possibility of an uncapped year coming up. With that in mind I think BB and the new front office crew are getting ready for this possibility. They are stockpiling high value draft picks and now have the cap room to do the most important thing they can right now: sign Wilfork to an extension.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Wilfork better not get 100/7 type money. I don't think hes worth that. Hes an amazing player but I think the skins have skinned there cap in longrun
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Totally. Imagine if we get a few good FA's and then Sean Smith, Connor Barwin, Larry English and Louis Delmas in the draft:D

Cant say many would be to unhappy about today then

The caveat is we are terrible with second round picks the last few years. Cjack and Wheatly who was rated a fifth rounder and played like one. He is a JAG. We are not good at second round picks. Call the talking heads what you want, but their impressions of our second rounders have been more right lately....Huh? I am afraid of this deal. Because of luck, lets package them all for a first rounder and call it a day....."In the second round, The New England Patriots select...CB Wheatly!"....H.L.H., (heavy lip hang!).
DW Toys
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

my 2 cents worth...

on first glance it is hard not to think that KC (Pioli) got the better end of the deal. Then again - with the Pats cap situation as it was - they sooner they moved Matt, the better. Now they can use the money to chase some decent FA's instead of just bottom of the barrel JAG's. Or contract extentions to Wilfork, or any of a number of core players whose contracts are up next year.

So Pats 'backs were against the wall' which means they could not get more than they gave in this deal. Remember, it is not just the player for picks exchange - it is the $$ the other team will have to shell out for Cassell - probably 10-14 mill per year for many years. With very little tape on him as he didn't play at USC. Yes he looked great this year (and ONLY this year) but then again the Pats have away of making the players better than they are. (the whole is greater than the sum of the parts).

IF PATS HAD GOTTEN A BETTER OFFER - THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT.

Sorry to scream but I can't stress the last sentence enough. The time to move Cassell was NOW. You can't just expect him to be traded (for a good trade) in training camp. It is not just enough that another team wants him - it is also that another team can AFFORD him under their cap for the next 4-6 years. An in a few weeks most teams probably would have tied up most of their cap space (minus draft rookie pool).

Obviously, the Vrable throw in makes it quite confusing. BB has always shown great respect for his players - cutting Vets early in TC so they could possibly sign with another team and so on....

So there must be much more to the Vrable situation than meets the eye. He certainly didn't look last season like the Vrable of former days. And BB sees him every day in practice and knows (any) medical situation as well. So I will trust BB on this......If he was going to be a cap casualty - better to send him to a non-divisional competitor as a goodwill gesture while he makes the final 4 million on his last remaining year on his contract.

Now that is one less (starting) OLB for Pats in 2009. BUT:
1) Pats have some young bodies there (Woods, Crable, Vince Redd, TBC is back and also Guyton is a possibility). Pats Fans - we all know that non of them is as good as a declining Vrable. Granted. BUT these young guys are NOT going to get any better sitting on the bench. Just look at Cassell - he improved by PLAYING on Sundays. Not as much by just practicing the last 4 years (see pre-season 2008 game tape).

2) This should be a pretty good to great draft for OLB and DE tweeners. As more and more teams start transitioning to 3-4 defenses, better to get some of those players NOW.

3) Pats are now loaded with first day picks. Yes - I would have loved to get a 1st rounder for Cassell (Vrable). But not any later round picks (say 4th for Vrable or such which won't make the team and just end up on another teams (Clevelands) practice squad. So better to get as high a pick as possible instead (#34) instead of a 3rd and a 4th. If another team had offered more than the 34th pick - BB would have taken it!

How does the draft round chosen matter. It was just stated recently in one of the national writers how most of the Pro Bowl players were from 1st or 2nd rounds (duh!). Plus the following:
Team-by-team analysis: Judging without grades - NFL - CBSSports.com Football
I did a 10-year study on the draft to judge the success rate of players selected in each round. I defined a successful player as one who is starting four years after being drafted. Four years gives him a chance to prove himself, and if you are not starting after four years you will probably be replaced on the roster. The results were as follows:
Round 1 -- 75 percent
Round 2 -- 50 percent
Round 3 -- 30 percent
Round 4 -- 25 percent
Round 5 -- 20 percent
Round 6 -- 9 percent
Round 7 -- 9 percent


Summary: while the trade is more of a benefit to KC than to NE - it was a necessary evil for Pats to move Cassel as early as possible and the extra cap space plus pick #34 for a former 7th rounder is a blessing. Vrable (thanks for the good times) was declining and not exactly cheap at $4 Mill a year. It gives playing time for growth of our OLB core and hopefully Mike will be replaced at OLB at pick # 23 (Matthews?) or at # 34 (Connor Barwin?).

P.S. Don't worry - be Happy!

I'd be happy with those picks but I am still not sold on Barwin and why do we think he is there? I keep thinking Cocong from Philly. We all wanted him. Decent player but not a team changer. We still need a bigger CB and a safety. If they draft Matthews they won't go for Barwin IMO. Same thing only different. Matthews and Sean Smith?
DW Toys
 
Re: Pats release on Cassel / Vrabel trade

i just saw this...is this some sort of a joke? it's not April 1 yet...but for the 34th pick...both of them?

i don't get it. My first reaction is to say, "Yep, Pioli is the best Player Personnel guy in the NFL. Look at the deal he just conned the Pats out of!"

Please, tell me why I am wrong. I sooooo want to be wrong.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

DW, To put it bluntly, you tend to struggle at evaluating DB's. I don't know where it comes from, but you seem overly harsh on Sanders, and here, Wheatley.

Wheatley got hurt, but he seemed to be good enough to compete for playing time as a ROOKIE, and he was very impressive at Colorado (both on the field and as a leader), and at the combine.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

mgcolby, i can't enlighten anybody who won't stray from their first impressions.

would you rather wait it out and attempt to get more value (if even possible) while having our hands tied with all free agents, or would you rather clear the cap and get all the value you can as soon as possible?

It looks like Vrabel was an add-in to the deal so that we could clear more space, one could assume that he likely would have been a cap casualty if he hadn't been traded.

I think you just had your expectations too high. Cassel had a really good year, but just because a team made a mistake a few years ago for overpaying for Schaub, it does not effect the CURRENT market.

We got what we could ASAP and are now in an amazing position to solidify our defense through the draft and free agency. I thought we might get more, but considering THIS DRAFT CLASS, I can't think of many picks with more value than the one we got.
You're too sensible to fit in here. Your patsfans.com membership is hereby revoked. ;)
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Round 1 -- 75 percent
Round 2 -- 50 percent
Round 3 -- 30 percent
Round 4 -- 25 percent
Round 5 -- 20 percent
Round 6 -- 9 percent
Round 7 -- 9 percent


According to this theory we have 3.68 starting players coming in this year through the draft.

(1 *.75) + (3*.5) + (2*.3) + (1*.25) + (2*.20) + (1*.09) + (1*.09) = 3.68

Not bad
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Three words: Public Relations Nightmare.

This will resound in the NFL till Cassel's career is over or the Pats lock up another Super Bowl with the help of the 34th pick. Now I know how Raider fans felt when the Pats got Moss for almost nothing.

And don't get me started on losing Vrabel. His best days were behind him, but to package him up with Cassel for a SECOND round pick would make me sore if I were him.

And yes... It is a second round pick. Not a low first as some want to make it sound. Get over that.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

just my opinion but i really thought we would have had a conditional 2010 pick as well... oh well i am sort of happy and sad. least it means the pats will be making a move for peppers hopefully
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

just my opinion but i really thought we would have had a conditional 2010 pick as well... oh well i am sort of happy and sad. least it means the pats will be making a move for peppers hopefully

i dont know how we didnt get a 3rd or 4th this year or a 3rd or 2nd next year. that part doesnt make sense to me
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Wilfork better not get 100/7 type money. I don't think hes worth that. Hes an amazing player but I think the skins have skinned there cap in longrun

but thats what everyone's theory is that just because miami and texans were dumb and set the market ,the pats shouldve got more for cassel.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

IF PATS HAD GOTTEN A BETTER OFFER - THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT.
A fact that is apparently lost on many people.
 
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