Ryan Mallett trade speculation

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Because Tim Tebow has been around for 2 seasons and he can't beat out Orton to start or possibly even Quinn as a backup. He's an intangibles guy who doesn't remotely have the skillset to even project to function in Indy's system. Beck couldn't beat out freakin' Rex Grossman. Garrard is what he is and has always been, a stopgap JAG. They have Collins in for that gig already... Hoyer doesn't have the arm or the potential to keep fannies in seats...not to mention he's spent 3 years in a totally different system. Polian prefers fairly raw prospects who have yet to learn bad habits or become fairly set in their way. Mallett has passed initial muster with Bill and (hopefully) basically learned to take things seriously and keep his nose clean and work like a rented mule at getting better mechanically by listening to coaching... More like a polished draft pick.

You missed the point.

The current alternatives are there to get through the next two years and PRESERVE THE 2012 1ST ROUND QB PICK that they would lose if somehow Polian decided to give Belichick a 3rd 1st rounder. They are NOT the answer long-term. No one here has said such a thing.

In 7 months they will have the choice among 5-7 top flight college QB's of THEIR choosing.

If Polian has a personality change and actually offers BB a 3rd 1st rounder for Mallet, I say JUMP AT IT!

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

I can't argue with that, but this thread is about a rumor that Polian already made a call about Mallett. The ensuing discussion all takes place in the hypothetical bubble where that rumor is true, so pride swallowing has already occurred.

I never argued this thread. I argued the people within the thread posting expectations of Polian giving Belichick a FIRST ROUNDER for Mallet.

If this actually happens, I would fully do an abject mea culpa right here in this thread (something a Bob Kravitz evidently is incapable of doing) after I laughingly cartwheel in celebration for the Patriots' great fortune in fleecing the NaPolian.

 

[rookBoston]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

I've taken a quick look at all 32 depth charts, and here are the candidates I see:

Jimmy Clausen
Joe Webb
Brady Quinn
Tim Tebow
Stephen McGee
Mike Kafka
Ryan Mallett

So, which of those guys would you stake your future on, and what would you give for them?

And worth mentioning, Polian is looking down into the Abyss of Failure if he can't transition his franchise into a new era, after watching Belichick do it with some success. History and his fans will judge how he handles this. The Colts and Pats had a great rivalry, each getting a few licks in. But if the Pats continue to contend for another 5 years and the Colts fade into obscurity, Belichick will have proven himself to be the superior GM as well as a HOF coach.

Of these players, I would inquire after Clausen and Mallett...and that's about it. Even if you love Tebow, the Colts would have to reinvent their entire offensive philosophy to make him work. I think the ship has sailed on Quinn. The rest, is it even worth trading for those guys? Is the upside there?

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

You forget you are talking about a guy who traded a franchise QB to a division rival for a #1, cut a pro bowl safety on the eve of the season (twice now...), traded a #6 pick DE he had no replacement for in the prime of his career for a future #1 on the even of another season, traded a HOF WR for a 4th rounder pick in next years draft in week 4 of last season and stuck with a 6th round backup QB when his team was 5-5 and played him through to the SB even on a bum ankle...while the guy who was worth a #1 sulked on the bench as his backup...

And a guy whose legacy is being trashed by a fan base incensed that he ever let the future of their franhise come to this...

Mo!!!!

I'm not talking about whether BB would accept this ludicrous offer in a heartbeat - - OF COURSE he would!!!!!!

Obviously, you didn't comprehend the last line of my post that you quoted: "In the 1% chance that they would, Belichick would fall out of his chair rushing to make the trade official."

You forget who the "offerer" in this situation would be.

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Many thanks to rookBoston for his calm summation of the situation. It's all hypothetical, but it's interesting. Imagine you're a GM with a talented but aging core of stars, and as the season begins you suddenly find yourself with no quarterback -- possibly for good. What do you do?

You're too late to enter the fray for the top FAs, but you need to put a credible team on the field. Step one: lure a canny vet with experience in this kind of emergency out of retirement. Done.

Now you have to take a deep breath and consider 2012. The draft is the obvious approach, but remember that core of aging but still talented stars? Are you really prepared to blow it all up and start long-term rebuilding, if you think you're still a QB away from competing for a title? You have to explore every other option first.

The veterans on the market at this point are JAGs at best. Time to scour depth charts. You're looking for a young QB whose:

- physical skills suggest the potential to become a legit NFL starter
- development is blocked by a veteran starter
- team isn't really counting on him and might be willing to part with him

I've taken a quick look at all 32 depth charts, and here are the candidates I see:

Jimmy Clausen
Joe Webb
Brady Quinn
Tim Tebow
Stephen McGee
Mike Kafka
Ryan Mallett

So, which of those guys would you stake your future on, and what would you give for them?

Patchick has listed the available QBs meeting her "young" and "talented" criteria. Of these, I think Mallett easily has the highest upside, and most closely fits the 'future franchise QB' label.

Who else in that list is worth mortgaging the future for?

For the folks arguing that the Pats wouldn't get more than a #2 pick, the going rate for pushing a pick forward is one round higher per year, and #74 is already a high 3rd round pick. Now add in the scarcity of QBs available NOW, and the desperate situation the Colts find them in. I don't think a 1st round pick to give the team hope for next year is outlandish at all, and I don't see any value to the Pats to move him for less than that. What would be their motivation to do so? Free up a roster spot? They have seen enough to convince them he can't play at a high level in this league? He's uncoachable?

Trading him now, gives the Colts their next franchise QB now, so they can work with him now, and have him ready to play next year if they need to cut ties with Manning or think he won't be able to play at his previous level.

One thing is for sure, they can't roll the odometer back on Manning, that vehicle still needs to be replaced relatively soon.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

..

Bill Polian has a HUGE ego and a ****storm is currently reigning down on him that could tarnish his legacy. Draft picks comparatively don't mean squat to him right now. He screws up enough of them as it is lately...

So does that public ****storm get any better for him with his fanbase if he gives (of all people) William Freaking Belichick a 1st round pick for Belichick's 3rd round pick from 5 months ago????

Polian would rather jump in front of a train.

A 2nd round pick offer is more possible. A first rounder to any OTHER team is even more possible. Or a stop-gap now and keep the 1st round choice in 7 months.

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

So does that public ****storm get any better for him with his fanbase if he gives (of all people) William Freaking Belichick a 1st round pick for Belichick's 3rd round pick from 5 months ago????

Polian would rather jump in front of a train.

A 2nd round pick offer is more possible. A first rounder to any OTHER team is even more possible. Or a stop-gap now and keep the 1st round choice in 7 months.

I think you're overrating Polian's refusal to deal with the Pats. The rumor is that he has already contacted the Pats.

If Mallett is worth a #1 it doesn't matter WHO is getting the pick. There is no subsidy in a Pats-Colts trade; there wasn't one in the Bledsoe trade to the Bills.

In fact, if Polian sees Mallett as a franchise QB, then he will be able to accept kudos for getting him from their chief rival a year early so they can develop him.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

I think you're overrating Polian's refusal to deal with the Pats. The rumor is that he has already contacted the Pats.

If Mallett is worth a #1 it doesn't matter WHO is getting the pick. There is no subsidy in a Pats-Colts trade; there wasn't one in the Bledsoe trade to the Bills.

In fact, if Polian sees Mallett as a franchise QB, then he will be able to accept kudos for getting him from their chief rival a year early so they can develop him.

With all due respect, you should research Bill Polian and his relationship to the New England Patriots.

A SECOND round pick offer is within a slight realm of possibility. Bill Polian would commit suicide before offering a first round pick to Belichick in this scenario.

Belichick with 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks would almost be handing the Patriots the next decade to be a dynasty.

 

[patchick]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

And worth mentioning, Polian is looking down into the Abyss of Failure if he can't transition his franchise into a new era, after watching Belichick do it with some success. History and his fans will judge how he handles this. The Colts and Pats had a great rivalry, each getting a few licks in. But if the Pats continue to contend for another 5 years and the Colts fade into obscurity, Belichick will have proven himself to be the superior GM as well as a HOF coach.

Interesting point. QB isn't the only position where Polian has failed to restock; the Colts have startlingly little young talent. That sets his team up for a post-Manning/Wayne/Clark/Mathis/Freeney meltdown -- which will be seen by the media & public as simply a post-Manning meltdown. Which leaves the legacy of the past decade as solely Manning's, and not Polian's.

Of these players, I would inquire after Clausen and Mallett...and that's about it. Even if you love Tebow, the Colts would have to reinvent their entire offensive philosophy to make him work. I think the ship has sailed on Quinn. The rest, is it even worth trading for those guys? Is the upside there?

That's pretty much how I see it, too. Strange that Clausen hasn't come up before in this thread, with everybody tossing around Garrard, Tebow and Beck. Clausen strikes me as the guy most in need of a change of scenery, with a team that CAN'T give him a chance to compete for the starting job.

 

[jah]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

I doubt this happens, but it would also seem realistic for Indy to roll with another "prototypical-sized" QB while we stay with a guy like Hoyer.

 

[Digit]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

That's pretty much how I see it, too. Strange that Clausen hasn't come up before in this thread, with everybody tossing around Garrard, Tebow and Beck. Clausen strikes me as the guy most in need of a change of scenery, with a team that CAN'T give him a chance to compete for the starting job.

Just checking, but looking at your list, why isn't Brian Hoyer being considered as an option for Indy? He's young, he's been groomed, and he might come at a cheaper price than Mallett would.

Or is it the whole 'Curtis Painter sixth round / Brian Hoyer undrafted' thing that Polian would have to swallow his pride hard about?

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

With all due respect, you should research Bill Polian and his relationship to the New England Patriots.

A SECOND round pick offer is within a slight realm of possibility. Bill Polian would commit suicide before offering a first round pick to Belichick in this scenario.

Belichick with 3 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks would almost be handing the Patriots the next decade to be a dynasty.

So you're saying that Polian would rather see his franchise fail than do business with BB?

I can't believe Polian hates the Pats more than the Pats hate the Rats, yet the Pats sent a #1 pick to the rodents for BB.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

So you're saying that Polian would rather see his franchise fail than do business with BB?

I can't believe Polian hates the Pats more than the Pats hate the Rats, yet the Pats sent a #1 pick to the rodents for BB.

-Did that give the Jets a position of 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in the next draft?

-Were the Pats and Jets elite teams in the midst of a decade long argument for "teams of the decade" at that time?

-Hadn't Belichick ALREADY left the Jets by that point????????

-Did those two teams amicably make that deal or did the NFL step in to determine fair compensation?

Look it up.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

So you're saying that Polian would rather see his franchise fail than do business with BB?

I can't believe Polian hates the Pats more than the Pats hate the Rats, yet the Pats sent a #1 pick to the rodents for BB.

Because Kraft was smart enough to understand that, in the long run, the value of BB to this franchise was easily worth that first-rounder.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Because Kraft was smart enough to understand that, in the long run, the value of BB to this franchise was easily worth that first-rounder.

And Kraft never "offered" the Jets a 1st round pick.

That came via the NFL dictates. It wasn't a "deal". It was a judgement from the NFL offices. The Jets would have kept BB locked in a dungeon forever if it were allowed.

 

[patchick]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Just checking, but looking at your list, why isn't Brian Hoyer being considered as an option for Indy? He's young, he's been groomed, and he might come at a cheaper price than Mallett would.

Or is it the whole 'Curtis Painter sixth round / Brian Hoyer undrafted' thing that Polian would have to swallow his pride hard about?

For me it's not the draft status, it's the physical tools. I have a lot of respect for Hoyer, but he's just not the "upside" guy teams stake their dreams on. Barely 6'2", average athlete, average arm strength -- the same kind of stuff that left Colt McCoy so underrated in the draft. (And yes, I did say so about McCoy at the time! )

 

[goheels22002]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Patchick has listed the available QBs meeting her "young" and "talented" criteria. Of these, I think Mallett easily has the highest upside, and most closely fits the 'future franchise QB' label.

Who else in that list is worth mortgaging the future for?

For the folks arguing that the Pats wouldn't get more than a #2 pick, the going rate for pushing a pick forward is one round higher per year, and #74 is already a high 3rd round pick. Now add in the scarcity of QBs available NOW, and the desperate situation the Colts find them in. I don't think a 1st round pick to give the team hope for next year is outlandish at all, and I don't see any value to the Pats to move him for less than that. What would be their motivation to do so? Free up a roster spot? They have seen enough to convince them he can't play at a high level in this league? He's uncoachable?

Trading him now, gives the Colts their next franchise QB now, so they can work with him now, and have him ready to play next year if they need to cut ties with Manning or think he won't be able to play at his previous level.

One thing is for sure, they can't roll the odometer back on Manning, that vehicle still needs to be replaced relatively soon.

What about Carson Palmer? He's the best out there and way better than any of the guys on the list. A one-two of Kerry Collins and Carson Palmer in a disciplined system works for this year and meybe even a transition year or two to Andrew Luck if the Colts can pry him from the Bungles who appear to be the front-runner to land the overall #1 (do they even have their own #1 next year?).

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

So does that public ****storm get any better for him with his fanbase if he gives (of all people) William Freaking Belichick a 1st round pick for Belichick's 3rd round pick from 5 months ago????

Polian would rather jump in front of a train.

A 2nd round pick offer is more possible. A first rounder to any OTHER team is even more possible. Or a stop-gap now and keep the 1st round choice in 7 months.

Polian screwed up and it's evident, there's going to be a ****storm either way, it's just a matter of taking the path that allows him to best recover from it. With Mallett the Colts wouldn't have to alter their offense, he's a tall Strong-armed QB that functions almost exclusively from the pocket.

Putting off dealing with it for 7 months is just putting it off, they need a successor bad.

 

[livinginthe past]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Polian screwed up and it's evident, there's going to be a ****storm either way, it's just a matter of taking the path that allows him to best recover from it. With Mallett the Colts wouldn't have to alter their offense, he's a tall Strong-armed QB that functions almost exclusively from the pocket.

Putting off dealing with it for 7 months is just putting it off, they need a successor bad.

Thats a huge assumption.

There are a number of NFL QB's who fit the physical description of Peyton Manning - but to suggest that they wouldn't have to change their offense appears ridiculous.

Manning really is that Colts offense, he will go down as one of the greatest QB's to ever play the game - any attempt to compare a rookie with zero real snaps to his name is inane.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Rumors Galore!! Could Ryan Mallett be traded to....

Would the locals really give Polian a ton of **** if he traded a first-rounder for the likely QB of the future? It's not like Mallett could be more wasted as a pick than, say, Donald Brown,Tony Ugoh, or Jerry Hughes.