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Rumor: Moss to Vikings?


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Re: Moss for a 3rd is illogical

Don't the Pats play the Vikings later on? How funny would it be to trade him to the Vikings only to have to face him and possibly get torched by him later on in the same season?
 
Not in the least. The TEs are much better than that season and you may be forgetting that Branch missed quite a bit of time and Brown wasn't the same guy. ;)

I hear you but I'm not so sure. That team had some great balance on offense between the RBs, WRs, and TEs. I don't think we could match that with this team minus Moss. Anyway, I would take 2004 Branch, Givens, and Brown over 2010 Welker, Tate, Edelman, Hernandez.

Anyway, more importantly is that the 2004 team had an awesomely outrageous defense.
 
Re: Moss for a 3rd is illogical

I don't care what it's for, we need Moss this year not draft choices next year.
 
Who were the deep theats in 2004? Patten? That offense actually outscored the 2007 team (even if you exclude te SB) over their final 8 games, 234 to 230.

You don't need "deep threats" you need good reievers. The league is full of guys who can run real fast and still don't get open. Time will tell if NE's receivers/TEs can get the job done, but I am optimistic.

Statistically no offense in the history of football outscored the 2007 team. You simply chose the few that support your argument. The 2004 team's offense was much different in scheme than what we've seen in recent years.

With the types of sets we like to run now specifically the empty backfield set you want a deep threat to open up the quick underneath routes we see with welker, edelman & hernandez.

Why do ppl continue to think that the pats teams of old are interchangable with what we have now. We had a skilled and mentally tough veteran Defense with all the components you need in the 3-4 to make it work. Then our Defense was our most valuable asset, now that's not the case. If you have a team that needs to produce more points to win games then you need a deep threat to threaten the D with the big play. Simple
 
Not in the least. The TEs are much better than that season and you may be forgetting that Branch missed quite a bit of time and Brown wasn't the same guy. ;)

Not a chance that this offense can match up with the 2004 offense with Moss gone. And the defense . . .
 
You may be forgetting that the 2004 team had the best RB in the league that year. So, yeah, it's not the same.

True.

Teams knew we were running the ball and we still ran it down their throats. This team doesn't see 8 in the box like patten and troy brown would often see. Our receivers won't get those matchups because no opposing team is placing the pats run game at the top of their to-do list
 
Re: Moss for a 3rd is illogical

All this talk about a 3rd round pick as compensation has to be wrong, hasn't it? Even the Vikings, by offering a contract between $8M to $10M per year (if true) are indicating they realize what they are getting in Moss.

When have the Pats ever hit big on a 3rd round pick? It was bad enough to give up Seymour for two years, but at least we know we'll be getting a 1st eventually.

Trading Moss for a 3rd makes zero sense. A pass rusher AND a 3rd makes sense. A DB AND a 3rd makes sense. A 1st and a 3rd makes sense.

But, to give up Moss four games into a season when they are 3 and 1, and to get nothing to help the team makes ZERO sense.

BB better not get ripped off again in a trade.
 
Statistically no offense in the history of football outscored the 2007 team. You simply chose the few that support your argument. The 2004 team's offense was much different in scheme than what we've seen in recent years.

With the types of sets we like to run now specifically the empty backfield set you want a deep threat to open up the quick underneath routes we see with welker, edelman & hernandez.

Why do ppl continue to think that the pats teams of old are interchangable with what we have now. We had a skilled and mentally tough veteran Defense with all the components you need in the 3-4 to make it work. Then our Defense was our most valuable asset, now that's not the case. If you have a team that needs to produce more points to win games then you need a deep threat to threaten the D with the big play. Simple

Of course I am cherry picking. But a large part of their success was a schematic advantage. Once teams figured that offense out they went from being a historically great offense to a merely excellent offense. Selecting the final 8 games (not an insignificant amount of games) is perfectly viable because it includes the games once teams had a chance to break down film.

And you completely misunderstood my post by your final paragraph. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't understand the situation.
 
there is no way in my mind that loosing moss makes this offense better. The only argument is that if we get e.g 2 2nd's e.t.c then it will be better for the team in th e long term as we would have lost moss anyway... the seymour trade argument. But that is it and i for one will miss randy even tho i trust the team to make the right decision
 
Those comparing this team to the 2003 team really need to stop. And stop now. That team could afford to trade away a guy like Milloy because the defense was already top notch. They had the best front seven in football, they had Ty Law as a CB, and they already had Rodney Harrison. On top of that, they could *REPLACE* Milloy's production. They had a team at that time that was just entering their primes and could handle it.

This team? Not so much. This is an extremely young team. Who do we have that can replace what Randy Moss does? Assuming we move Tate to flanker, is he really going to demand double teams? What has he done so far to make anybody think that he can? Who are we going to move in across from him? Taylor Price? What makes anybody think that he can enter a game and play at anything approaching a competent level after the preseason he had? Welker will now demand the other team's best CB and will see safety help tacked on. On top of that, he's now a much bigger target for huge hits. He's now a bigger risk for a Ryan Clark-type kill shot. Edelman is good and will help, but his health hasn't exactly been primo. Hernandez is also good in the slot, but this trade will make things harder on him as well. As for Gronk? I like him, but we're already using him more as a blocker. Does anybody see that changing with Moss gone? I don't. I see it happening more. We're going to need all of the good blocking we can get.

Another reason to not like the Moss trade? Our running game hasn't exactly proven that it can be top notch against a good defense. Fred Taylor hasn't been able to stay healthy since he got here. Sammy Morris has had the same problem. Both, when healthy, are solid options, but haven't shown that they can be lean on like we might need to now that our premier deep threat is walking out the door for a third rounder. BJGE has ran well, but hasn't proven that he can be THE GUY against good defenses (1.9 YPC vs. the Jets comes to mind). Woodhead has been a solid option on third downs and has been a surprise of a runner, but he isn't a workhorse type of back. In trading Moss, we're going to need to pound the ball more than we have. We don't appear to have the runners to be able to do that. Do I even have to mention the problems that our O-Line has had run blocking in recent years?

In all, can we do it? It's certainly possible that we can make it work and go deep into the postseason. However, there are too many negatives to consider here. Our young defense is going to have their struggles this year. We've already seen that. Our young receivers are now going to have to step up more than ever, none more than Brandon Tate. He hasn't shown that he's ready for that monstrous challenge yet. Our 6'7" TE has already been relegated to blocking duty, and should expect to be blocking even more. We're going to need to rely HEAVILY on a running game for the first time, really, since 2004. This running game hasn't shown that they can be heavily relied on like we did back then. This O-Line hasn't shown that it can run block consistently against the better defenses in the league. And, another reason? Brady is now good friends with Moss. Unless something changed behind the scenes, I can't imagine Brady being happy with us.

But Adam Schefter is talking about this as if it's already a done deal. So I would like to say thank you, Randy, for all you've done for this organization since you've been here. :(
 
Re: Moss for a 3rd is illogical

My prediction is we will all be disappointed with the compensation by the end of the day.
 
i love the people trying to rationalize taking the best receiver of his generation out of an offense will make it better...

bb has lost his find and you guys place too much blind faith in him. by the team he drafts and develops new talent, brady will be gone and you'll need a new qb...
 
Nothing suprises me with BB..as long as he keeps signing the Brady's, Welkers and Woodheads of the world he will always think he can win with anyone.

I disagree with the trade (if true) but I'm just a fan, what do I know about running a nfl team?
 
I think this thread went up 100 pages over night, this is almost as big as the Patten won't make the team and Adam Seward thread. It looks like this is going down today. I expect a 0 productivity day in the office in my area, aka Foxboro South, 4 guys, all diehards, all wanting to vent.
 
Re: Moss for a 3rd is illogical

maybe at least bernard berrian? They can't go into the baltimore and san diego with this wide reciever core....they don't have the defense to go all the way without moss.
 
Are you guys forgetting this trade is happening because he requested a trade, acted like a ***** in practice to BB, lost his mind during the national anthem.

He's lost his mind, and I will be one of the proud to hope Chung lays him out.
 
Nothing suprises me with BB..as long as he keeps signing the Brady's, Welkers and Woodheads of the world he will always think he can win with anyone.

I disagree with the trade (if true) but I'm just a fan, what do I know about running a nfl team?

possibly a touch early to be throwing woodhead in there with brady and welker maybe...
 
Are you guys forgetting this trade is happening because he requested a trade, acted like a ***** in practice to BB, lost his mind during the national anthem.

He's lost his mind, and I will be one of the proud to hope Chung lays him out.

Are you sure that is the case? i have heard different. What nfl network is saying is the vikings initiated this and have wanted him for weeks
 
possibly a touch early to be throwing woodhead in there with brady and welker maybe...

yea, probably a little to early..but I needed more than two examples. :)
 
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