Ridley officially arrives at crossroads

[Brady6]

What's stupid is comparisons to all-time greats in situations like this. It's why we mock Jets fans when they do it (Look at how Brady was playing at the beginning of the year, when his supporting cast wasn't all world!).

And claiming Ridley is an elite player at this stage of his career is ridiculous.

I said to look at his numbers over the 512 carries compared to some of the all-time greats; everybody has to start someplace; if you did that you would see he stacks up well even better than some. What situations like this do we mock? Are you suggesting Ridley’s supporting cast is the reason why he had a good season last year? If you projected Ridley this year with the same 290 carries he would have 1247 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns and the supporting cast has not been as good this year as you pointed out in Brady’s case. We don’t mock Jets fans because I don’t really care about the Jets or their fans, and would never waste my time mocking them.

As far as calling him elite at this juncture in his career, he is in his 3rd season so I guess JJ Watt is not elite either?

 

[patsinthesnow]

No, BJGE was a back-of-the-rotation back who was playing the RB1 by default, first because Maroney and Taylor were hurt all the time, and then because Maroney and Taylor were shot RBs. BJGE was not, and is not, a legitimate RB1 in the NFL.

Although I was a big fan of him, I pretty much agree with you. So where do you stand with Ridley, Deus?

2010 BJGE: 1,093 total yards, 13 TDs, 4.4ypc.
2012 Ridley: 1,314 total yards, 12 TDs, 4.4ypc.

The former was killed around here for being a low talent, system RB, while the latter has been proclaimed a top 8 RB by some on this board.

 

[manxman2601]

Ridley is quickly becoming one of the more polarizing patriots I can remember. There seems to be a rift in the fanbase:

(regardless of fumbling)
Half thinks he's a top back/very talented.
Half thinks he's an average system back/not very talented.

Curious to see what BB thinks next year.

I really enjoy watching Ridley run. He's not elite but as a limited #1' he's perfectly fine. It's all going to come down to whether BB has lost patience with him permanently or not. I do think he'll struggle to get a second contract here though.

 

[manxman2601]

As far as calling him elite at this juncture in his career, he is in his 3rd season so I guess JJ Watt is not elite either?

I see what you're trying to say here but JJ Watt is playing at an elite level. Ridley is not.

 

[Deus Irae]

I said to look at his numbers over the 512 carries compared to some of the all-time greats; everybody has to start someplace; if you did that you would see he stacks up well even better than some. What situations like this do we mock? Are you suggesting Ridley’s supporting cast is the reason why he had a good season last year? If you projected Ridley this year with the same 290 carries he would have 1247 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns and the supporting cast has not been as good this year as you pointed out in Brady’s case. We don’t mock Jets fans because I don’t really care about the Jets or their fans, and would never waste my time mocking them.

As far as calling him elite at this juncture in his career, he is in his 3rd season so I guess JJ Watt is not elite either?

Why do you insist on making lousy arguments full of terrible comparisons?

Ridley is not on the same plane as JJ Watt

JJ Watt is considered by many to be the best defensive lineman in football. Ridley is, quite possibly, not even the best RB in the AFCE.

 

[moosekill]

Why do you insist on making lousy arguments full of terrible comparisons?

Ridley is, quite possibly, not even the best RB in the AFCE.

Perhaps not even on his own team.

 

[Brady6]

You have to have more than one good year to be considered "elite" IMO. Did he have a great year last year? Yep, but how has he fared this year? Consistency is the key and to date, he hasn't been about to do that.

I agree with you on that. If not for the fumbling issues if he got the same 290 carries he would have 1247 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns. Unfortunately his ball security is prohibiting him from reaching his potential and becoming an elite running back.

 

[Nunchucks]

I said to look at his numbers over the 512 carries compared to some of the all-time greats; everybody has to start someplace; if you did that you would see he stacks up well even better than some. What situations like this do we mock? Are you suggesting Ridley’s supporting cast is the reason why he had a good season last year? If you projected Ridley this year with the same 290 carries he would have 1247 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns and the supporting cast has not been as good this year as you pointed out in Brady’s case. We don’t mock Jets fans because I don’t really care about the Jets or their fans, and would never waste my time mocking them.

As far as calling him elite at this juncture in his career, he is in his 3rd season so I guess JJ Watt is not elite either?

Is that really the argument you want to make? that Ridley could be an all-time great RB like Adrian Peterson or is similiar in playing ability to JJ Watt?

Those guys JUMP OUT at you with ability. I like Ridley, I think he is an excellent runner, but you are just way out there right now. JJ Watt is DOMINANT, Adrian Peterson is DOMINANT.

Ridley is a nifty runner who does not have break away speed that fumbles.

I mean, from day one those guys were unreal players.

 

[Nunchucks]

Why do you insist on making lousy arguments full of terrible comparisons?

Ridley is not on the same plane as JJ Watt

JJ Watt is considered by many to be the best defensive lineman in football. Ridley is, quite possibly, not even the best RB in the AFCE.

I actually think Vereen is the best RB on the team.

 

[Ivan]

I really enjoy watching Ridley run. He's not elite but as a limited #1' he's perfectly fine. It's all going to come down to whether BB has lost patience with him permanently or not. I do think he'll struggle to get a second contract here though.

I don't consider him elite but I think he's a really good RB, and I actually think the problems he is having make him easier to re-sign not harder. Plenty of backs have fumbling issues, and Ridley is clearly struggling with them right now, but I believe he's a hard working player who is taking responsibility for his issue, not running from it. I heard people trashing him for holding the ball on the sidelines but to me what he was doing was publically taking responsibility for it by standing their with the ball in his hands basically making it clear that the reason he is on the sidelines is his own fault, when he could have pouted and deflected responsibility instead.

Ridley and Vereen make an excellent tandem going forward and hopefully the re-sign and keep both long term because they will have an excellent backfield if they do.

 

[PatsFan2]

Is that really the argument you want to make? that Ridley could be an all-time great RB like Adrian Peterson or is similiar in playing ability to JJ Watt?

Those guys JUMP OUT at you with ability. I like Ridley, I think he is an excellent runner, but you are just way out there right now. JJ Watt is DOMINANT, Adrian Peterson is DOMINANT.

Ridley is a nifty runner who does not have break away speed that fumbles.

I mean, from day one those guys were unreal players.

How are people putting a decent running back *Ridley* in the same sentence as a Elite RB *AP* is beyond me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Although I was a big fan of him, I pretty much agree with you. So where do you stand with Ridley, Deus?

2010 BJGE: 1,093 total yards, 13 TDs, 4.4ypc.
2012 Ridley: 1,314 total yards, 12 TDs, 4.4ypc.

The former was killed around here for being a low talent, system RB, while the latter has been proclaimed a top 8 RB by some on this board.

I think Ridley has better interior elusiveness than any back this team's had (other than Woodhead), since Curtis Martin. I think that's because he's got excellent vision of the line pre-snap and immediately post-snap. I don't consider him an elite back, but I think he's a legitimate RB1 other than his fumbling issues.

I think his problems come from poor carrying technique, an over-reliance on his head as a blocking tool, and questionable vision once the play really gets to developing. The problem, for him, is that the Patriots need the running game to not kill the team, as opposed to needing the running game to win games. While his problems would be grudgingly accepted on some teams (think Giants), the Patriots have no patience for RBs who start costing the team points, because the Patriots have a passing game that generally makes running game the little brother of the offense.

 

[Brady6]

Why do you insist on making lousy arguments full of terrible comparisons?

I compared a year 3 player who has been the best at his position out of his draft class to another year 3 player who has been the best at his position out of his draft class.

Ridley is not on the same plane as JJ Watt

I know they play on different teams so they wouldn’t be likely to travel together.

JJ Watt is considered by many to be the best defensive lineman in football. Ridley is, quite possibly, not even the best RB in the AFCE.

So I post with stats and metrics and you respond by saying he may not even be the best running back in the AFCE with absolutely no justification and you say I make lousy arguments? So mine are lousy but you’re not even making an argument you’re making bold statements with nothing but your name to back them up.

 

[Ivan]

I actually think Vereen is the best RB on the team.

Ridley is a better runner and Vereen a better receiver but if all around is the criteria then i give the nod to Vereen.

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't necessarily agree with your 'elusiveness' determination. Maybe Vereen's better in open field, but in the box, Ridley's elusiveness thanks to his quick feet is top notch. It's arguably his biggest strength.

Yes, I am talking about open field running. Ridley has got great feet, yes, but let's not act like he's LeSean McCoy or anything. Evading tacklers and slipping through to gain those extra yards are things Vereen does better than all of the other backs. That's his best asset in addition to receiving abilities.

 

[Deus Irae]

I compared a year 3 player who has been the best at his position out of his draft class to another year 3 player who has been the best at his position out of his draft class.



I know they play on different teams so they wouldn’t be likely to travel together.



So I post with stats and metrics and you respond by saying he may not even be the best running back in the AFCE with absolutely no justification and you say I make lousy arguments? So mine are lousy but you’re not even making an argument you’re making bold statements with nothing but your name to back them up.

I posted with stats originally. You attempted to differentiate them in such a way as to favor Ridley rather than addressing the issue of whether he's actually the player you think he is. Why would I bother continuing down that road when your arguments are so lousy and you don't accept the stats in the first place?

The reality is that Ridley is not in the same class as a Peterson or a JJ Watt. The reality is that Ridley has the lowest YPA of the team's 4 RBs, and your explanations/justifications don't change that, just as they don't make him a better outside runner than Vereen or grant him breakaway speed. I think Ridley's the team's best interior RB. That doesn't make him elite, anymore than BJGE being the team's RB1 made him a quality RB1.

 

[Brady6]

Is that really the argument you want to make? that Ridley could be an all-time great RB like Adrian Peterson or is similiar in playing ability to JJ Watt?

Those guys JUMP OUT at you with ability. I like Ridley, I think he is an excellent runner, but you are just way out there right now. JJ Watt is DOMINANT, Adrian Peterson is DOMINANT.

Ridley is a nifty runner who does not have break away speed that fumbles.

I mean, from day one those guys were unreal players.

I see what you're trying to say here but JJ Watt is playing at an elite level. Ridley is not.

I am not comparing Ridley to Watt but what I am saying is if DI says that Ridley cannot be considered elite because of the point he is at in his career then Watt who is from the same draft class would have to have the same rules apply. I think Watt is elite, I think if Ridley did not have the ball security issues he would be an elite back or at least on the cusp of that, I also think a player can be elite as a rookie, the NFL is performance based league not a tenure based league.

 

[mgteich]

We need a reliable inside runner. It is that simple.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think Ridley has better interior elusiveness than any back this team's had (other than Woodhead), since Curtis Martin. I think that's because he's got excellent vision of the line pre-snap and immediately post-snap. I don't consider him an elite back, but I think he's a legitimate RB1 other than his fumbling issues.

I think his problems come from poor carrying technique, an over-reliance on his head as a blocking tool, and questionable vision once the play really gets to developing. The problem, for him, is that the Patriots need the running game to not kill the team, as opposed to needing the running game to win games. While his problems would be grudgingly accepted on some teams (think Giants), the Patriots have no patience for RBs who start costing the team points, because the Patriots have a passing game that generally makes running game the little brother of the offense.

This is fair and well said. As a pure, in between the tackles runner, Ridley is pretty good and could be argued that he is just inside the top 10 in this area. Ridley's lack of explosion, lack of receiving ability, and fumbling problem makes him an average runningback IMO. If he ever fixes the fumbling problem, I'm fine with him as a solid, unspectacular, RB1.

 

[Wrath Mania]

I really have no idea why Ridley is beloved by so many fans on this board. The lone edge he has over the other backs on this team is his ability to hit the hole, which is as much dependent on the line and blocking scheme as anything else. He's not fast, I wouldn't say he's really elusive, in fact his only response to a collapsing space seems to be acting like a battering ram. He offers absolutely nothing to the passing game. He's one-dimensional.

Anyone who claims it's hypocritical Edleman or Brady didn't receive the same punishment for their fumbles in the Denver game are totally, entirely missing the point. Ridley has a nice, long history of fumbling in big spots. When you're an above-average, limited #1RB (at best), you're not going to survive very long when you keep making such tremendous mistakes. We can keep touting this narrative about Kevin Faulk helping him, and it's nice and all, but let's be real: Kevin Faulk was an all-purpose machine. Ridley isn't even close to that.

I think the reason people overrate him so much on this board is because there's still this need to fetishize outmoded concepts like SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL and HIT EM WHERE IT HURTS WITH THREE YARDS AND A CLOUD OF DUST and other NFL mythologies that died 30 years ago. And hey, if you have a great RB your team relies on, it still works. But fact of the matter is, Ridley isn't even on the same planet as an all-world like AP, is still nowhere close to LeSean McCoy down in Philly, who can make a lot out of nothing. I wouldn't even think of putting him very far ahead of a Moreno or (lol) DeMarco Murray. Ridley is average, with one aspect of his game that's above-average, which is negated by his inability to hold onto the football.