Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder
Why did you count 2008 as a season? He missed the whole year with an injury, so you probably should have used 7 years, but who cares anyway.
I simply looked at the list of top 50 active sacks and divided sacks by years. It wasn't scientific. If there were 4 guys on the list it would be different than there being 15.
The fact of the matter is that you said earlier that you don't understand why so many fans have become stat chasers, yet you are using stats to back some of your logic. That seems a bit inconsistent. Why are you using sacks per year to determine the "eliteness" of certain pass rushers if stats aren't that useful and "stat chasers" don't know how to truly build a team?
Because YOU called him an ELITE pass rusher and sacks measure that. Feel free to tell me what makes him elite beyond that. Elite is just overrating him. My list wasn't intended as an iron clad self contained argument, it was an anecdotal way of showing you missed a lot of better guys in your comments.
I don't know how much you've seen of Osi play, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you seem to be in the minority on this one. A lot of people see him as a better all around player than you give him credit for. I agree that he is a bit weaker than ideal vs the run, but I don't think he's an atrocity like you claim.
No so sure I'm in the minority, but you are entitled to your opinion too.
Even so, all the other guys you allege as being "more elite" than him have warts in their games too, yet most are still paid top dollar. Obviously, everyone is looking for a guy like Lawrence Taylor, but those are once in a generation types of players. You can say bad things about all of those guys you listed as being better than Osi in terms of sacks. Some are weak vs the run, some take plays off, some don't maintain the level of consistency from game to game, some are one-trick ponies, some are only good because of the scheme and/or talent surrounding them, etc.
I wasn't commenting on who the best players are, I was illustrating that elite pass rusher is incorrect.
The point is that when you watch Osi Umenyoria play, the guy can wreak havoc, put pressure on the QB, blow plays up in the backfield, and force turnovers. He is a big time difference maker as a pass rusher, regardless of how many sacks per year he has. If you put him on a DL with Haynesworth and Wilfork, who basically both command double teams, Osi would have a monstrous year for the Patriots.
Again, I think you overrate him.
A lot of top flight pass rushers are considered "weak" against the run because they are more interested in getting sacks and "killing the QB" than playing with contain principles or setting the edge. I have seen Osi play a good amount of football and I do not think he is as bad against the run as you think he is. That's just a difference of opinion.
So if he changes his game to pay more attention to the run, like in a 2gap, his pass rushing will suffer. Thats part of the point of the fit.
I think Osi is well worth a second round pick and $8-$10 million per year. He is a great all around pass rusher. I've seen him have success speed rushing, bull rushing, using swim/rip/spin moves, blitzing as a stand up LB in an exotic package. Yes, there is no doubting that he's not a great run stuffer, but he's still good enough in that area that he is worth the investment. This team has not had an elite pass rusher for a very long time.
He is due 7.1mill and asking for a trade, so 8 wont cut it. I think 10mill a year is foolish. Part of the reason we havent had an elite pass rusher in years is the team defense concept that limits individual accomplishment for the sake of the defense. He would not have the sack totals that are on his stat sheet if he had been here for those 8 years.
I know you said you don't mind getting a pass rushing demon to play in sub packages and play 60% of the total defensive snaps, but who do you plan on going out and getting and how are you going to do it?
Whether there is another guy to fill that role quite as well is not a 10mill a year issue.
Regardless of how good a guy is against the run, if he's a good pass rusher, he's going to get big money. This league has become a glorified 7 on 7 game, and guys that can get after the QB and put him on his back are consistently given big time money.
That has never happened here. Can you not see the difference?
Jason Babin had one good year and just got around $5.5-$6 million per year for 5 years at the age of 31. He never had a double digit sack season before 2010, when he racked up 12.5. The highest he ever had before 2010 was 5 sacks, back in 2006.
Charles Johnson had one good year and just got $12 million per year for 6 years. He's had one double digit sack season and was given $12 million dollars per year.
Someone will pay him, I hope it isn't us.
Osi Umenyoria has had 3 double digit sack seasons. He has been a key part of a defense that beat the greatest offense of all time in the SB. He still managed 7 sacks in 2009, despite feuding with the coaching staff, being benched, and having his snaps reduced which led also led to lower confidence and morale levels.
Should we have ot make excuses for a 10mill a year player?
Maybe he doesn't meet your sacks per game assessment, but I'd take him over a ton of guys on your list of people who have more sacks than him. Out of the guys on that list, he's closer to the top than he is to the bottom in terms of pass rushing ability IMO. He is a playmaker at a position where the Pats have desperately needed a playmaker for a long time.
Lets try to take some context. The list of players was solely in response to you calling him elite, no more, no less.
I accept he is a good pass rusher, but at 10mill a year, he is a bad fit here.
You disagree. That is fine.
