Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the ledge

[shmessy]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I would say that giving up Sanders and Merriwether for NOTHING was a far greater transgression than giving up Seymour for a 1st round pick. The two situations are not even in the same ballpark.

The personel bungling of the safety situation this summer defies reason and the front office should be castigated for it

 

[mgteich]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

What do you think is an acceptable pass to run ratio for a Brady-led team? I suggested 60% and agree that we have passed too much. I believe that one reason is the lack of a blocking tight end.

For the season, 65% - 35% (Pass to Run). Can't give an excuse that Pats have to throw this much because they were playing from behind. In all 3 games they had comfortable leads.

This is coaching/OC idiots. At this rate QB will have 709 attempts (200+ more than last year) provided he or his right arm can last 16 games.

 

[FalconHeavy]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I would say that giving up Sanders and Merriwether for NOTHING was a far greater transgression than giving up Seymour for a 1st round pick. The two situations are not even in the same ballpark.

The personel bungling of the safety situation this summer defies reason and the front office should be castigated for it

Does Patricia has anything to do with it ?

 

[shmessy]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Does Patricia has anything to do with it ?

I don't think Matt Patricia has much of a say in the front office. He may have told BB he thinks Sanders and Merriwether were done, but let's face it, the Pats could have gotten SOMETHING for them.

And they certainly would have been better than Josh Barrett, Sergio Brown and Ihedigbo yesterday.

 

[Marqui]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Bingo. I think that is the problem with the D right now, the coaching staff is asking these guys to play roles they are not skilled or talented enough to play.

This is a huge part of the problem. From what I've seen Ninkovich and Ellis shouldn't be playing rush OLB/DE under any circumstances.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

"Under any circumstances" OK, so you would bench Ninkovich and Ellis as rush OLB/DE's. Who would you give the reps instead?

This is a huge part of the problem. From what I've seen Ninkovich and Ellis shouldn't be playing rush OLB/DE under any circumstances.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

What do you think is an acceptable pass to run ratio for a Brady-led team? I suggested 60% and agree that we have passed too much. I believe that one reason is the lack of a blocking tight end.

Here's a sampling Pass attempts vs run....Team has NEVER had with Brady at helm a 60-40 ratio, including the insane 2007 year, and thru 2nd and 3rd SB year

2002: 59.5% Pass, 39.5% run
2003: 53% Pass, 47% run
2004: 48% Pass, 51% run
2005: 56% Pass, 44% run
2006: 51% Pass, 49% run
2007: 57% Pass, 43% run
2008: 51% Pass, 49% run (non Brady Year)
2009: 56% Pass, 44% run
2010: 53% Pass, 47% run
2011: 65% Pass, 35% run (3 games into season)

This lunacy in 2011 is completely on the coaching staff especially playing with leads establish a ground game for ball control.

BOB is going to get Brady killed with hits or injured at this rate

 

[Marqui]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

"Under any circumstances" OK, so you would bench Ninkovich and Ellis as rush OLB/DE's. Who would you give the reps instead?

I don't know, maybe give Cunningham a chance to see if he improved his pass rush skills from last year. Anything but Ninkovich and Ellis.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

"Under any circumstances" OK, so you would bench Ninkovich and Ellis as rush OLB/DE's. Who would you give the reps instead?

you are stuck with these useless clowns for 2011 and have no choice but to play them since depth behind them is non existent.

Years of not focusing to bring upper level players and develop them is biting them in the azz. Expecting to hit a homerun every year with multiple picks and then landing likes of Marquise Hill, Shawn Crable, or wasting on TE's and DB's that never could be developed while passing on talented defensive players in Rd 1 for future picks has caught up.

Now we get to enjoy the Carter, Anderson, Ellis, Ninkovich, Spikes, Cunningham show.

Especting Fletcher to be the next Bruschi, or Ninkovich to be the Vrabel, or Cunningham to be the Mcginest is laughable

On the other side we see 80's version of Air Belicheck. in response the opposing O keep throwing and this Defense has no depth or talent to matchup.

So, in the end a self fulfilling prophecy....he wants it to be Brady show and not run. Offense then rings up TD after TD's but cannot play ball control since it refuses to run. Padding massive leads forces other Offenses to pass also, and there they've found that Pats can't keep up. in their own stupidity instead of shortening the game after taking leads, the Pats continuing to pass are lengthening the games and the Defense does not have the talent at skill positions to stop other team. In 2007 at least the D had talented players who were able to make the stop when needed

 

[everlong]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair after the four yard run by Ridley, Brady had Gronk wide open and underthrew him on what would have been a touchdown. Hard to argue that call.

If they go play action the safety bites up just a little and Brady is able to make the easier throw more towards the center of the field leading Gronk.

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Some thoughts from yesterday:

Ochocinco: I think it's pretty clear he's got a confidence problem, and I'm guessing he heard about it from Brady on the sidelines following the interception where McKelvin stepped inside after Ochocinco rounded his route off. I think that also played a part of the drop, because I'm sure he was pressing to make a play to make up for it. On that drive they scored anyway - but the big issue was the fact they needed 10 plays and another 5 minutes after that to do it. We're only three games in and he's making progress, so let's not bury him at this point when there's still 13 games left. They're going to need him - because no one's walking through that door.

Randy Moss: To follow up on the above last sentence, I heard the Schefter report, and in case there's still a few of you out there, Moss is not coming back - ever. Let it go.

Bill O'Brien: For those looking to give him his pink slip: they scored 31 points yesterday and did a great job moving the football on almost every drive. I mean let's be honest, they only punted three times yesterday. Those four picks were tough and really killed them.

Tom Brady: He had a tough game, but I'd have to only put one of those picks on him (the one he underthrew to Gronk). The others were just great plays by Buffalo and one was just a tough deflection. When he starts actually throwing the ball right to opposing defenders and making stupid decisions, then I'll worry. But obviously we're no where near that yet.

Julien Edelman: I had my doubts about him, but he's done exactly what he's needed to when called upon and looks more confident this season vs. last year when he had the "deer in headlights" look. He's returning the ball well and was fairly productive offensively despite a low number of offensive snaps yesterday. Not much more you can ask from a 7th round pick.

Deion Branch: I questioned him after the preseason, but I was wrong - and he's played well to this point. He and Ochocinco drew a lot of the coverage yesterday and both were doubled at times. There was also one play where Brady missed him badly that would have been a completion. But after re-watching part of it this morning, that's one of the main reasons he only saw three targets yesterday.

BenJarvus Green-Ellis: He didn't have it yesterday, although I thought they overreacted with some of the situations they put other guys in (Edelman has no business carrying the ball as a tailback in that formation). Part of me wonders if Green-Ellis is nursing a hamstring injury or something to that effect, because he didn't look like his usual self and didn't run like it either.

Brandon Spikes: He was out of position more times than not and his random acts of celebration left me shaking my head. I don't quite understand him.

Defensive Line: I know everyone loves to talk about the lack of pass rush, but I honestly have to agree with some of the criticism. After watching them in the first two preseason games and seeing what a force they appeared to be, it's staggering watching the regression from what we thought they'd be. Shaun Ellis has been virtually invisible, as has the same guys who made us believe from their play during the preseason we were going to have an incredible group of players getting after the quarterback this year. I know they've got some guys banged up, but it's still a mystery to say the least.

Devin McCourty: He's just a guy with a confidence problem who didn't get a chance to get better during the offseason. I honestly believe being away from the coaching staff for the entire offseason and not being able to improve on his weaknesses is killing him now. Teams obviously looked at film and saw how to attack him, and they're throwing at him like he's still a rookie. However, he's too good of a player to make me believe he won't come around, and again - it's only the 3rd game of the year and I have a hard time believing this is as good (or bad - if you want to look at it that way) as he's going to be this season.

Leigh Bodden: He's another guy I believe got hurt by not being able to work through minicamps and OTA's. Coming off of a shoulder injury I think he could have used the work, and I think the other part of the problem is conditioning because he looked gassed on the play he got beat deep. However, like McCourty, I believe he'll come around eventually.

Needless to say I understand the frustration. I know it was a winnable game, but as much as I hate to say it, they played a very good Bills team that capitalized and did what they needed to. I get that the Pats were up 21-0, but you have to give credit to some of the great plays Buffalo made yesterday. The mistakes and turnovers were what cost them the game, and hopefully they learn from it and turn it around.

But for those of you who are ready to start purging coaches, players, etc., I'd reserve a little more judgement until we've played more than three football games and have more guys back healthy. It's too long a season to start jumping off the wagon just yet.

Ian, I generally agree with you. I do take exception with a few points. While I think you're right that Ochocinco has a confidence problem, his main issue is what he has left and route running. He's never going to be anything more than a third, fourth or fifth option for Brady. Can he be successful in that role? We'll see. I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

My issue with Brady yesterday is that with the lead and driving, he needs to be smarter with his throws. There's a time to push it and a time to be a little safer. In scoring range, we could have settled for 3. No doubt he'll bounce back.

DL: While I don't think Ellis has played all that well, he's played that I thought. I just don't think there's a lot left in the tank. There's a reason that Rex was only willing to offer him a Vet minimum. That said, I do think that AH will get there. While I wasn't in favor of the trade, i do think there's some value there. I do think we're going to see a good DL by seasons end.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Finally thread that make sense and it took our leader to do it.

To the people talking about the run pass ratio on thing you should all know we are playing with 40% of a new Oline and pass blocking and the assignments are easier to do and learn then Run blocking. run blocking you have pulling and movement nad people covering where someone just left. Pass blocking is stand there and push people away from your Qb as best you can.

As for Edelmen in the back field if i remember correctly the only time he was there was when we ran out of the no huddle and had 5 recievers in there to start. The reason the pats run the no huddle is to confuses the D and get good mismatch if you slow down to change personal then the other team gets the chance to do it too.

Brown is not playing nearly as badly as everyone here thinks yes it's not great but he is only in his second year and his first as a starter. All the tema right now are stuggling on D and that is simply because of the lock out not that D is tougher to learn but simply that Offenses have mroe rules in their favor.

This team is going to get a lot better Riddley looks fantastic and will get a lot more reps we have our Power back in BJGE our change of pace in Riddley and the scat/ 3rd down back in woodhead and once the Oline gels for run blocking that will go back up like last year

McCourty is not getting as burnt as people think and teams are NOT targeting him as much as you think i watched yesterday closely at the DB and i saw Bodden getting torched more then i did McCourty and I have not seen a bad penelty on McCourty and there have been 2 on Bodden a game so far.

I wish i had the answer for the Dline i see the Pocket being small but not collapsing like it should but I am hoping that it will with more and more reps.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I agree with basically everything here. They don't need better coaching or better players. They need a few more weeks of the current coaching for the current players.

And in three weeks (their bye), when the Pats are once again in the bottom quarter of the league in defense? Yesterday was almost unforgivable, they were TOASTED by Buffalo. Their defense has gotten progressively worse as the weeks have gone by. There is no pass rush, no real pressure scheme that I can see, they just line up and run into the guy in front of them.

I love BB, I used to believe he was the best coach in the league, but after yesterday, and last playoff and the Ravens playoff before that, I am beginning to think that maybe the league has passed him by, maybe he is being out schemed and out manned and is refusing to admit that he has to change his defense to fit the times. He has always been suspect in his personell decisions, all the way back to his Cleveland days, but letting his safeties go and going with what he put out there yesterday has to be pointed out.

There needs to be a come to Jesus moment for this team, if it doesn't happen they will finish 8 and 8 this year. You can't give up 350 yards through the air to a team like Buffalo, they really aren't that good. But maybe the Patriots aren't really that much better?

 

[goheels22002]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I actually don't mind some of the 'fans' jumping off the bandwagon.

The bandwagon was starting to smell anyway - some of you homers need to work on your hygiene. It's very pleasant out here on the ledge - 80 degrees, sunny and the view is spectacular. Wait a minute, what's that? Camden Yard in the twilight? Is that Lackey warming up? Oh, no! It's getting windy up here. The ledge is feeling awfully narrow... I'm getting a little dizzy, uh-oh....

 

[goheels22002]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Here's a sampling Pass attempts vs run....Team has NEVER had with Brady at helm a 60-40 ratio, including the insane 2007 year, and thru 2nd and 3rd SB year

2002: 59.5% Pass, 39.5% run
2003: 53% Pass, 47% run
2004: 48% Pass, 51% run
2005: 56% Pass, 44% run
2006: 51% Pass, 49% run
2007: 57% Pass, 43% run
2008: 51% Pass, 49% run (non Brady Year)
2009: 56% Pass, 44% run
2010: 53% Pass, 47% run
2011: 65% Pass, 35% run (3 games into season)

This lunacy in 2011 is completely on the coaching staff especially playing with leads establish a ground game for ball control.

BOB is going to get Brady killed with hits or injured at this rate

Great chart. Last season resulted in a record of 14-2. The offense came back essentially intact. 53/47 pass to run makes sense, particularly with three new offensive linemen due to injuries to Koppen, Vollmer and the retirement of Neal.

The biggest imbalance on the chart is 2002 - the last year the Patriots missed the playoffs with TFB at the controls.

 

[Joker]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

The main key to this loss was the four turnovers.

next game, the Raiders are going to put up yards....contain is going to be very important...the Raider QB does not have the quick release of Fitz. I know there are certain know-it-alls that think THEIR take is the ONLY REAL viewpoint anybody can have BUT, listening to BB on EEI with Bruschi this afternoon, and hearing him say the D line played well in HIS opinion, and explaining the disconnect, with Chung being out, between the LB's and the secondary causing some disruptions,it's a safe bet that Bill's take is the REAL one, and these message board Whinesteins are ,basically, full of crap.

The Patriots go out to Oakland and give up four turnovers again, they probably lose again. This hysteria about all that Buffalo offense?The Pats actually held them seven points UNDER their season average,despite all their mistakes. I don't care if the Pats win 38-35,as long as they win.Throwing INT's on first and ten inside the 10 are game killers.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Well said! This is just the 3rd game of the season and there is a lot of football left to play. Pats will dominate once again.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

What do you think is an acceptable pass to run ratio for a Brady-led team? I suggested 60% and agree that we have passed too much. I believe that one reason is the lack of a blocking tight end.

Another, more important reason is the lack of an ass-kicking, LeRon McClain-caliber lead FB.

TEs & esp. backup OLmen simply do not have the instincts, leverage or momentum-causing speed to consistently make the correct block that opens the holes needed to effectively execute a successful short-yardage, clock-killin' run game.

Unless & until Bill adds one of these players to the 53, then he is only paying the run game mere lip service.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

you are stuck with these useless clowns for 2011 and have no choice but to play them since depth behind them is non existent.

Years of not focusing to bring upper level players and develop them is biting them in the azz. Expecting to hit a homerun every year with multiple picks and then landing likes of Marquise Hill, Shawn Crable, or wasting on TE's and DB's that never could be developed while passing on talented defensive players in Rd 1 for future picks has caught up.

Now we get to enjoy the Carter, Anderson, Ellis, Ninkovich, Spikes, Cunningham show.

Especting Fletcher to be the next Bruschi, or Ninkovich to be the Vrabel, or Cunningham to be the Mcginest is laughable

On the other side we see 80's version of Air Belicheck. in response the opposing O keep throwing and this Defense has no depth or talent to matchup.

So, in the end a self fulfilling prophecy....he wants it to be Brady show and not run. Offense then rings up TD after TD's but cannot play ball control since it refuses to run. Padding massive leads forces other Offenses to pass also, and there they've found that Pats can't keep up. in their own stupidity instead of shortening the game after taking leads, the Pats continuing to pass are lengthening the games and the Defense does not have the talent at skill positions to stop other team. In 2007 at least the D had talented players who were able to make the stop when needed, usually.

Had to fix that one there. Otherwise, I kinda agree.

 

[Krugman]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Very good Post,Ian,you brought up most of the points being discussed re this game,coulnt agree more.One more thing,I see a lot of the pundits expressing concern about the Pats defence,but really,can any one point out a team playing decent opponents that has not not been torched for many yards/points at this (albeit early) time in this season?Teams like Green Bay,New York Jets,San Diego come to mind....