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Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the ledge


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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I think it's mostly a mental issue. He's getting abused on things he used to stop consistently. That's not getting exposed, in my book. Again, if it was just one thing he was getting schooled on, I'd be more inclined to take your position seriously. It's pretty much everything, though. Talented players don't get exposed for "everything" like that.

I agree with Deus, and as I said I think he's just not trusting his instincts right now - and that's a big part of his problem.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Its pretty simple- The D as a Whole is atrocious-- No pass rush-- LB coverage is bad-- Dbacks terrible-- Wilfork not near as overpowering as he was last season- wheres the D additions that was supposed to solve the pass rush problems?? Tackling-- not good- Pats O has done way more than enough--
cinco? a few weeks from being released if he doesnt get it together--
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Its pretty simple- The D as a Whole is atrocious-- No pass rush-- LB coverage is bad-- Dbacks terrible-- Wilfork not near as overpowering as he was last season- wheres the D additions that was supposed to solve the pass rush problems?? Tackling-- not good- Pats O has done way more than enough--
cinco? a few weeks from being released if he doesnt get it together--

I'd have to disagree with you on that point about Wilfork, he's got two guys on him on most plays, and you'll see that if you go back and look at the game yesterday. However I think the other part of the issue that's hurting the secondary is the fact they're only getting pressure sporadically. That gets us back to the point I posted originally about the mystery that is the guys who played so well during the first couple of preseason games that aren't performing as well now. I don't have a good answer there - because I'm not entirely sure why that is either.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Well said! Obviously, the elephant in the room was not mentioned.

OFFENSE
I agree with all of your comments.

SPIKES
I was surprised with the number of reps that Spikes got compared to Fletcher and Guyton. Spikes was in on 48 reps. The total for the following FOUR players was 50 reps: Fletcher, Guyton, Anderson and Cunningham.

I am not sure how much this says about Belichick's future expectation from Spikes, probably a lot. The real question is where we are on the other four players.

BODDEN
Yes, he's injured. Yes, he's was bit gassed. For me, he did fine. Corners often get beat when they have no help from their dime backs (LB's masquarading as dime backs yesterday) or safeties.
======================================

THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM
We have two safeties who don't seem to get it at all. And we have no backups for the seven position defensive backs (I don't count the special teamers). We have ZERO backups that Belichick trusts to play. So when two of the seven are out injured, the five left just have to suck it up and play in almost all situations. Well, Barrett and Brown were simply not up to the task. And to be a broken record, I have no objections at all to Barrett and Brown being our #3 and #4 safeties, and getting a few reps.



Some thoughts from yesterday:

Ochocinco: I think it's pretty clear he's got a confidence problem, and I'm guessing he heard about it from Brady on the sidelines following the interception where McKelvin stepped inside after Ochocinco rounded his route off. I think that also played a part of the drop, because I'm sure he was pressing to make a play to make up for it. On that drive they scored anyway - but the big issue was the fact they needed 10 plays and another 5 minutes after that to do it. We're only three games in and he's making progress, so let's not bury him at this point when there's still 13 games left. They're going to need him - because no one's walking through that door.

Randy Moss: To follow up on the above last sentence, I heard the Schefter report, and in case there's still a few of you out there, Moss is not coming back - ever. Let it go.

Bill O'Brien: For those looking to give him his pink slip: they scored 31 points yesterday and did a great job moving the football on almost every drive. I mean let's be honest, they only punted three times yesterday. Those four picks were tough and really killed them.

Tom Brady: He had a tough game, but I'd have to only put one of those picks on him (the one he underthrew to Gronk). The others were just great plays by Buffalo and one was just a tough deflection. When he starts actually throwing the ball right to opposing defenders and making stupid decisions, then I'll worry. But obviously we're no where near that yet.

Julien Edelman: I had my doubts about him, but he's done exactly what he's needed to when called upon and looks more confident this season vs. last year when he had the "deer in headlights" look. He's returning the ball well and was fairly productive offensively despite a low number of offensive snaps yesterday. Not much more you can ask from a 7th round pick.

Deion Branch: I questioned him after the preseason, but I was wrong - and he's played well to this point. He and Ochocinco drew a lot of the coverage yesterday and both were doubled at times. There was also one play where Brady missed him badly that would have been a completion. But after re-watching part of it this morning, that's one of the main reasons he only saw three targets yesterday.

BenJarvus Green-Ellis: He didn't have it yesterday, although I thought they overreacted with some of the situations they put other guys in (Edelman has no business carrying the ball as a tailback in that formation). Part of me wonders if Green-Ellis is nursing a hamstring injury or something to that effect, because he didn't look like his usual self and didn't run like it either.

Brandon Spikes: He was out of position more times than not and his random acts of celebration left me shaking my head. I don't quite understand him.

Defensive Line: I know everyone loves to talk about the lack of pass rush, but I honestly have to agree with some of the criticism. After watching them in the first two preseason games and seeing what a force they appeared to be, it's staggering watching the regression from what we thought they'd be. Shaun Ellis has been virtually invisible, as has the same guys who made us believe from their play during the preseason we were going to have an incredible group of players getting after the quarterback this year. I know they've got some guys banged up, but it's still a mystery to say the least.

Devin McCourty: He's just a guy with a confidence problem who didn't get a chance to get better during the offseason. I honestly believe being away from the coaching staff for the entire offseason and not being able to improve on his weaknesses is killing him now. Teams obviously looked at film and saw how to attack him, and they're throwing at him like he's still a rookie. However, he's too good of a player to make me believe he won't come around, and again - it's only the 3rd game of the year and I have a hard time believing this is as good (or bad - if you want to look at it that way) as he's going to be this season.

Leigh Bodden: He's another guy I believe got hurt by not being able to work through minicamps and OTA's. Coming off of a shoulder injury I think he could have used the work, and I think the other part of the problem is conditioning because he looked gassed on the play he got beat deep. However, like McCourty, I believe he'll come around eventually.

Needless to say I understand the frustration. I know it was a winnable game, but as much as I hate to say it, they played a very good Bills team that capitalized and did what they needed to. I get that the Pats were up 21-0, but you have to give credit to some of the great plays Buffalo made yesterday. The mistakes and turnovers were what cost them the game, and hopefully they learn from it and turn it around.

But for those of you who are ready to start purging coaches, players, etc., I'd reserve a little more judgement until we've played more than three football games and have more guys back healthy. It's too long a season to start jumping off the wagon just yet.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

yes the Interception was a thing of beauty-- last season he was amazing - holding that line together- he keeps the pace this season he will be about 20 tackles short of last season
and the pressure isnt even sporadic- more like a every blue moon
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Well said! Obviously, the elephant in the room was not mentioned.

OFFENSE
I agree with all of your comments.

SPIKES
I was surprised with the number of reps that Spikes got compared to Fletcher and Guyton. Spikes was in on 48 reps. The total for the following FOUR players was 50 reps: Fletcher, Guyton, Anderson and Cunningham.

I am not sure how much this says about Belichick's future expectation from Spikes, probably a lot. The real question is where we are on the other four players.

BODDEN
Yes, he's injured. Yes, he's was bit gassed. For me, he did fine. Corners often get beat when they have no help from their dime backs (LB's masquarading as dime backs yesterday) or safeties.
======================================

THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM
We have two safeties who don't seem to get it at all. And we have no backups for the seven position defensive backs (I don't count the special teamers). We have ZERO backups that Belichick trusts to play. So when two of the seven are out injured, the five left just have to suck it up and play in almost all situations. Well, Barrett and Brown were simply not up to the task. And to be a broken record, I have no objections at all to Barrett and Brown being our #3 and #4 safeties, and getting a few reps.

I agree, and that was the big problem with letting Meriweather and Sanders go. I think he was fine having them as backups, but obviously he didn't expect Chung to get injured. He's a big key to this secondary, and that was a big void yesterday.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Good post...let's see what the trolls have to say
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I agree, and that was the big problem with letting Meriweather and Sanders go. I think he was fine having them as backups, but obviously he didn't expect Chung to get injured. He's a big key to this secondary, and that was a big void yesterday.

I don't buy that Belichick wasn't expecting Chung to get injured. I would think that this team has seen too many injuries in the defensive backfield for that to be the case.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I agree, and that was the big problem with letting Meriweather and Sanders go. I think he was fine having them as backups, but obviously he didn't expect Chung to get injured. He's a big key to this secondary, and that was a big void yesterday.

Ian - Chung is only one of the safeties though. Even when it was Chung and Brown, Brown was a liability on the field. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the interception he had is looking more like a blind squirrel finding an acorn in a forest than of Brown actually having the ability to play at safety..
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I like the thread, Ian, but I'm still going to rant about Edelman. He now has less yeards in the last 33 regular season games than he did in his first game with the Pats (against the Jets in 2009.) I see Edelman in the offense as similar to Sam Aiken, Chad Jackson, and Joey Galloway. There's no point having him in there, because even if he is open, Brady won't throw him the ball any more because he doesn't trust him. I think another legit option yesterday could have cut down on the high number of targets yesterday to Welker and Gronk; not that they weren't effective, but we always struggle when Brady zeroes in on certain players.

Not sure why Slater is not used as a burner in this offense, and how anyone could argue that a deep threat like that would not be more useful than pointless formations involving Edelman, who does nothing, not just yesterday, but ever.

For the record, I would give Bill O'Brien an A- for his strategy and playcalling yesterday. The Pats offense was great except for things outside of BOB's control. Every team's fanbase blames their offensive coordinator, when 95% of the time, it's the quarterback.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I'd have to disagree with you on that point about Wilfork, he's got two guys on him on most plays, and you'll see that if you go back and look at the game yesterday. However I think the other part of the issue that's hurting the secondary is the fact they're only getting pressure sporadically. That gets us back to the point I posted originally about the mystery that is the guys who played so well during the first couple of preseason games that aren't performing as well now. I don't have a good answer there - because I'm not entirely sure why that is either.

Preseason games mean absolutely nothing. Lions were 4-0 in preseason the year they finished 0-16. In preseason they all looked like HOF'ers

This is not a pressure 4-3 DL. In 4-3 your DE and OLB have to be able to bring it. In this team we are asking DT to be the key to bringing pressure. Not working. Quick...Name me the starting OLB and DE on this team ?????
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Good post Ian. I kind of disagree on BOB the points are nice but he needs to balance it out more. I feel the guy is improving alot year to year, this year the offense has shown they can actually make adjustments after it falls into a semi funk, most notably the one last week after Brady almost tore his ACL again. Couple poor drives followed but they eventually got it rolling.

That said, we will once again be screwed in the playoffs if the pass:run ratio is still where it is now. You put that much on one player and it's eventually going to bite you, no matter how good that player is. When the other team is daring you to run, you run, you make them respect it.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I don't buy that Belichick wasn't expecting Chung to get injured. I would think that this team has seen too many injuries in the defensive backfield for that to be the case.

I'd have to disagree, I don't think he ever goes into a season expecting anyone to get injured. I think he obviously hopes that doesn't happen and prepares roster-wise to hopefully have some depth, but I think we all had heard about the fact they weren't happy with what they had at safety. Unfortunately the guys they brought in apparently weren't what he wanted. I'm sure that's a position we'll see addressed after the season with a better plan, and I think we could see a move this week for them to tryout some others.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Ian - Chung is only one of the safeties though. Even when it was Chung and Brown, Brown was a liability on the field. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the interception he had is looking more like a blind squirrel finding an acorn in a forest than of Brown actually having the ability to play at safety..

True, but I think Chung is probably a guy who does a better job making sure guys are where they need to be, and pointing out adjustments. There was one touchdown yesterday (I forget the player, but remember the situation) where the guy was wide open in the endzone on an obvious blown coverage. Having a veteran back there who can help makes a difference. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's one theory as a reason to potentially make someone like Brown play better.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Preseason games mean absolutely nothing. Lions were 4-0 in preseason the year they finished 0-16. In preseason they all looked like HOF'ers

This is not a pressure 4-3 DL. In 4-3 your DE and OLB have to be able to bring it. In this team we are asking DT to be the key to bringing pressure. Not working. Quick...Name me the starting OLB and DE on this team ?????

Your ends yesterday were Carter and Ellis - and as I posted originally Ellis hasn't been effective so far - and I don't have a good explanation for that. They brought pressure inside with Wilfork and Haynesworth during the preseason, and were able to get pressure off the ends early on during those games also. That hasn't happened so far this season the way we thought it would.

As for the outside linebackers, you have Ninkovich - who has played well, and then as I said you have Spikes - who is a guy I just don't understand at all.
 
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Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

True, but I think Chung is probably a guy who does a better job making sure guys are where they need to be, and pointing out adjustments. There was one touchdown yesterday (I forget the player, but remember the situation) where the guy was wide open in the endzone on an obvious blown coverage. Having a veteran back there who can help makes a difference. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's one theory as a reason to potentially make someone like Brown play better.

I guess you could look at it this way. When the jets lost their key safety/defensive play caller last year, we spanked them 45-3. At least we didn't take that kind of a soaking!
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Agree. And at this rate they are on pace for 709 Attempts by Brady. He will either get planted/injured or come late in the season his arm will be hanging like a wet noodle.

Statistically he averages 533 attempts/season (33.3/game), and 11.44 INt's..2011 he's on pace at 709 attempts (44.3/game)

So, 10+ more pass attempts a game. its obvious they have no desire to run the ball. Other defenses will just tee off and that's exactly what Buffalo did. I expect to see more INT's

Go back to their ugly losses and you will see the same thing, the fact is even when other teams are conceding the run, they still don't run.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I'd have to disagree, I don't think he ever goes into a season expecting anyone to get injured. I think he obviously hopes that doesn't happen and prepares roster-wise to hopefully have some depth, but I think we all had heard about the fact they weren't happy with what they had at safety. Unfortunately the guys they brought in apparently weren't what he wanted. I'm sure that's a position we'll see addressed after the season with a better plan, and I think we could see a move this week for them to tryout some others.

He turned S, a position of strength with depth and experience, and turned it into its Defense weakest link. It is a clear indictment given Chad Henne and Fitzpatrick are carving his defense up on avg 400 yards a game. Given all the Secondary injuries over last few years if he expected to come out unscathched the he looks like a fool right now.

....and that is the annual saying, we will address next season. How about they play this season first, unless ofcourse he's thrown in the towel and expects to go down flaming with Brown and Barrett and D getting torched for 400 a game, and positioned as #31 ranked D after 3 weeks.
 
Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I'd have to disagree, I don't think he ever goes into a season expecting anyone to get injured. I think he obviously hopes that doesn't happen and prepares roster-wise to hopefully have some depth, but I think we all had heard about the fact they weren't happy with what they had at safety. Unfortunately the guys they brought in apparently weren't what he wanted. I'm sure that's a position we'll see addressed after the season with a better plan, and I think we could see a move this week for them to tryout some others.

Given the history of the position with this team, if BB isn't expecting injuries to his safeties, he's an idiot. I don't think he's an idiot.
 
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