Pioli's lousy drafts killing our roster/depth

[Patslifer]

Well, thank you for making a stupid thread even dumber.

You are spending a lot of time posting in this stupid thread.

 

[godef]

Puhleaze. Just because they start doesn't mean they are good picks. Hell the Detroit Lions have a bunch of their draft picks starting lol! ...

Detroit never went 16-0 in my recent memory.

 

[godef]

Great post. I have to agree. Beoli did a great job prior to 2004, but it has been downhill ever since. Fortunately, they've made up some of the ground through saavy Free Agent deals and trades. But our drafting has to improve! Looks like we've had a very good draft year for 2007. Should have included that one as well, though it is too early to judge.

Beoli? Bandwagon alert!

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

You claim the team has drafted poorly, but you can't be bothered to come up with even 5 teams who've drafted better, and you don't seem to know what the word "fact" means.

Alright you asked for it. However, I will not compare the Pats to other teams because I'm only worried about the Pats and it would take forever to finish.

004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL) Good pick
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia Has not lived up to potential
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU This hero gets a pass
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida just a dumb pick at the time and I'm sure you will agree
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina bad pick
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas bad pick
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.bad pick
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois bad pick

2/8 draft picks are starters. Scott, Reid, Cobbs, Sam and Morton are not even in the NFL anymore.


2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St. good pick
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St. I guess I will say he's a good pick
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo decent at best
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St. decent at best
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV out of the NFL
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal starting by default
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn out of the NFL

4 starters out of 7 picks with one pro bowler. This draft is ok.

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota doesn't look good
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida out of the NFL
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas doesn't look good
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa should have kept him
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis good pick but could have had Brandon Marshall who went right after him
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California bad pick
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida probably out of the NFL
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame horrible pick
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska decent at best
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor good on special teams before he decided to become a criminal

Out of this draft you have one starting kicker and a RB that can't stay on the field. Horrible draft.

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) turning out to be a good pick
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL) what a joke
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University Him and Brown have something in common
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University another joke
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame doesn't look good
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State joke
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State joke
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC joke
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa joke

Merriweather looks like a keeper but overall a horrible draft.


Overall you have 10 starters out of 34 draft picks. 14 out of 34 are still with the team. You be the judge.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

And, of course, this overly simplistic analysis ignores that minor little matter of Pioli finding UDFA talent. . . . after all, no UDFA has done anything for this team the last five seasons. . . .

[Yeah, I know they weren't drafted. But why the heck not? They're still rookies, and they go through TC just like everyone else. What difference does it make if they were picked in round 7 or signed after the fact?]

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

How can you say they have had bad drafts when you have nothing to compare them to?

Normally, you are a damn good poster. Now, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it. Grow a set of balls and back up your BS.

Thanks for the compliment. I will probably never hear that again. But then you hurt my feelings with the comment at the end.

One reason why I'm shocked to read this is because I think you rip me on almost every comment I make.

 

[Deus Irae]

Alright you asked for it. However, I will not compare the Pats to other teams.

004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL) Good pick
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia Has not lived up to potential
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU This hero gets a pass
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida just a dumb pick at the time and I'm sure you will agree
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina bad pick
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas bad pick
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.bad pick
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois bad pick

2/8 draft picks are starters. Scott, Reid, Cobbs, Sam and Morton are not even in the NFL anymore.


2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St. good pick
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St. I guess I will say he's a good pick
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo decent at best
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St. decent at best
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV out of the NFL
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal starting by default
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn out of the NFL

4 starters out of 7 picks with one pro bowler. This draft is ok at best.

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota doesn't look good
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida out of the NFL
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas doesn't look good
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa should have kept him
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis good pick but could have had Brandon Marshall who went right after him
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California bad pick
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida probably out of the NFL
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame horrible pick
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska decent at best
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor good on special teams before he decided to become a criminal

Out of this draft you have one starting kicker and a RB that can't stay on the field. Horrible draft.

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) turning out to be a good pick
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL) what a joke
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University Him and Brown have something in common
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University another joke
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame doesn't look good
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State joke
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State joke
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC joke
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa joke

Merriweather looks like a keeper but overall a horrible draft.


Overall you have 10 starters out of 34 draft picks. That is horrible.

How is this a list of 5 other teams? It's bad enough that your argument is garbage (I love the way you leave Welker and Moss out of the mix), but you can't even find 5 teams that you're sure drafted better than the Patriots when you are claiming these drafts have been "horrible"?

Just as a P.S., the Patriots have had 11 picks in the top 3 rounds during the time you've chosen, not counting the Welker pick that was traded away, while 23 picks have come in rounds 4 or later. So, a more rational breakdown would be:

36 picks
11 starters on the team (Not Cassel because that should be Brady, but add Welker and Moss)
5 backups on the team
Mills, Mincey, Stevenson, Oldenburg, K. Brown, Rogers and Hilliard are all on other NFL team rosters or practice squads

So, not even counting the UDFAs, the team has 23 of 36 picks from 2004-2007 still currently somewhere on an NFL roster, despite the vast majority of those picks coming from the 4th round and later in the draft. This is also despite picking at the bottom of the rounds because they have been in the playoffs every year.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

How do you know that David Harris or Lamarr Woodley would have progressed on the Pats the way they have on the Jets and Steelers? Hell, I question whether Harris HAS progressed considering how anemic the Jets defense really is.

Really? How do you know what the Pats could and Couldn't have? You don't. So please stop. There was no spygate. It was Goodell blowing a situation out of proportion. You damn well know that and your being a friggin hypocrite to say otherwise.

Your right, Goodell blew it way out of proportion for no reason. I honestly don't think what BB did was cheating which I hated when people mentioned it. It is fair to say he broke the rules but he didn't cheat. Anyway, I don't know for sure that Harris or Woodley would have done well with the Pats but I feel that they would have had a good chance since the Pats play a similar defense. And your right, Harris hasn't been nearly as good as his rookie year. It just hurts that a 1st round pick was stripped which really could have been used on a defense that is getting old.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

How is this a list of 5 other teams? It's bad enough that your argument is garbage (I love the way you leave Welker and Moss out of the mix), but you can't even find 5 teams that you're sure drafted better than the Patriots when you are claiming these drafts have been "horrible"?

The joke is your argument.

Wow, do you speak english? Did you see what I wrote in the beginning? I don't care about any other team besides the Pats. I left Welker and Moss out of it because they were not drafted by the Patriots, they were traded for. I'm only counting the players that have been drafted by the Pats.

So are you telling me that the Pats have drafted well since 2004?

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

It's true that the Pats didn't have perfect drafts.

No other team in the NFL did that either though.

Some of the picks, in my opinion, were a complete sham.

BUT...

Not many can see into the future.
BUT...
Everyone has 20/20 vision in the rear view!​

 

[Joker]

Just as stated innumerable times last night....post win ...no Snarkives, Jets Lifer,BtoB or NSA....can't vomit up their patented hate filled diatribes and thinly veiled attacks on the Patriots in the face of a 41-7 win by the banged up Pats. Nope, but just as predicted, here they are today, ripping and tearing away at anything/everything they can think of...as usual.

I've been a Patriots fan since the 60's and seen the highs and lows for decades and I've NEVER met any Patriot fan that even remotely resembles this quartet of "fans". Quite simply, they are trolls.Common, everyday useless wastes of bandwidth.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow, do you speak english? Did you see what I wrote in the beginning? I don't care about any other team besides the Pats. I left Welker and Moss out of it because they were not drafted by the Patriots, they were traded for. I'm only counting the players that have been drafted by the Pats.

So are you telling me that the Pats have drafted well since 2004?

You cannot evaluate the team's draft in a vacuum and expect to have any idea of what the hell you're talking about. Hell, use your bloody head.

However, because you seem to think the years were so bad, let's just look at the starter situation:

There are 24 'starters', 11 on offense, 11 on defense, a kicker and a punter. In 4 seasons, the team has put, according to YOUR numbers, almost half the team on the field. Again, that doesn't even include Moss and Welker, who would make it add up to half of the team's starters coming from just the 2004-2006 draft. Furthermore, Meriweather is likely to become a starter now that Harrison has been lost for the season. That's going to mean that more than half of the the team's starters will be either direct draft picks or players gotten for draft picks from the years 2004-2007.

And that's on a team that just went 16-0 last season.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Just as stated innumerable times last night....post win ...no Snarkives, Jets Lifer,BtoB or NSA....can't vomit up their patented hate filled diatribes and thinly veiled attacks on the Patriots in the face of a 41-7 win by the banged up Pats. Nope, but just as predicted, here they are today, ripping and tearing away at anything/everything they can think of...as usual.

I've been a Patriots fan since the 60's and seen the highs and lows for decades and I've NEVER met any Patriot fan that even remotely resembles this quartet of "fans". Quite simply, they are trolls.Common, everyday useless wastes of bandwidth.

Hey, I'm just responding to the poster who created this thread. Do you see me creating a hateful thread ever? I only did it once when Chad Jackson was injured on special teams in the '06 AFC title game. I'm glad the Pats won and I don't ever like them to lose. I want the guys on the field to prove me wrong and I will be the first to eat crow if Cassel leads the Pats to the playoffs. I hope you understand that.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Try.... try to grasp a simple concept.

You cannot evaluate the team's draft in a vacuum and expect to have any idea of what the hell you're talking about. Hell, use your bloody head. There are 24 'starters', 11 on offense, 11 on defense, a kicker and a punter. In 4 seasons, the team has put, according to YOUR numbers, almost half the team on the field. Again, that doesn't even include Moss and Welker, who would make it add up to half of the team's starters coming from just the 2004-2006 draft. Furthermore, Meriweather is likely to become a starter now that Harrison has been lost for the season. That's going to mean that more than half of the the team's starters will be either direct draft picks or players gotten for draft picks from the years 2004-2007.

And that's on a team that just went 16-0 last season.

Whatever, you have your opinion and I have mine! Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Rob0729]

Alright you asked for it. However, I will not compare the Pats to other teams because I'm only worried about the Pats and it would take forever to finish.

004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL) Good pick
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia Has not lived up to potential
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU This hero gets a pass
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida just a dumb pick at the time and I'm sure you will agree
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina bad pick
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas bad pick
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.bad pick
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois bad pick

2/8 draft picks are starters. Scott, Reid, Cobbs, Sam and Morton are not even in the NFL anymore.


2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St. good pick
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St. I guess I will say he's a good pick
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo decent at best
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St. decent at best
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV out of the NFL
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal starting by default
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn out of the NFL

4 starters out of 7 picks with one pro bowler. This draft is ok.

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota doesn't look good
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida out of the NFL
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas doesn't look good
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa should have kept him
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis good pick but could have had Brandon Marshall who went right after him
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California bad pick
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida probably out of the NFL
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame horrible pick
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska decent at best
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor good on special teams before he decided to become a criminal

Out of this draft you have one starting kicker and a RB that can't stay on the field. Horrible draft.

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) turning out to be a good pick
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL) what a joke
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University Him and Brown have something in common
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University another joke
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame doesn't look good
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State joke
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State joke
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC joke
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa joke

Merriweather looks like a keeper but overall a horrible draft.


Overall you have 10 starters out of 34 draft picks. 14 out of 34 are still with the team. You be the judge.

First, calling 6th and 7th round picks jokes or horrible picks is stupid. With every team whether it is the Patriots or the Detriot Lions, sixth and seventh round picks are long shots to last in the league. Players like LeKevin Smith (one of the last picks in the sixth round) and Matt Cassel are good sixth and seventh round picks because they are contributing despite the odds. if they were first or second round picks, they would be busts. But as sixth and seventh round picks they are good.

Second, you and others are not even taking into effect the draft positions the Pats have had when evaluating these drafts. In 2007, only three of nine draft picks were drafted before the sixth round. That means only three players had a strong chance of making the squad. Kareem Brown was cut because of a roster need and still is with the Jets. In 2006, 4 of the 10 draft picks were in the sixth or seventh round. Of the six that weren't, 4 are still on the team and 3 are starters at least when healthy.

Third, when did 4 starters out of seven picks become just ok? Most teams would kill to hit four out of seven in the draft. I defy you to find three teams that year who had a better success rate.

The problem is that people have really unrealistic expectations for the Patriots. If the Pats do not do the impossible, people think they suck.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

First, calling 6th and 7th round picks jokes or horrible picks is stupid. With every team whether it is the Patriots or the Detriot Lions, sixth and seventh round picks are long shots to last in the league. Players like LeKevin Smith (one of the last picks in the sixth round) and Matt Cassel are good sixth and seventh round picks because they are contributing despite the odds. if they were first or second round picks, they would be busts. But as sixth and seventh round picks they are good.

Second, you and others are not even taking into effect the draft positions the Pats have had when evaluating these drafts. In 2007, only three of nine draft picks were drafted before the sixth round. That means only three players had a strong chance of making the squad. Kareem Brown was cut because of a roster need and still is with the Jets. In 2006, 4 of the 10 draft picks were in the sixth or seventh round. Of the six that weren't, 4 are still on the team and 3 are starters at least when healthy.

Third, when did 4 starters out of seven picks become just ok? Most teams would kill to hit four out of seven in the draft. I defy you to find three teams that year who had a better success rate.

The problem is that people have really unrealistic expectations for the Patriots. If the Pats do not do the impossible, people think they suck.

I'm totally over it. It is what it is. I'm still fan of the Pats no matter what.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whatever, you have your opinion and I have mine! Let's just leave it at that.

Go tally up the number of 'home' drafted starters for the Giants from that same 2004-2007 period. Feel free to include Manning even though he wasn't actually drafted by the Giants.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Go tally up the number of 'home' drafted starters for the Giants from that same 2004-2007 period. Feel free to include Manning even though he wasn't actually drafted by the Giants.

Read my post above yours. I'm over it and willing to drop it.

 

[Rob0729]

Seriously, people need to get a lesson on how to evaluate drafts. If you are going to put similiar standards for sixth and seventh round picks as you are going to put on players selected in other rounds, you really have no business evaluating a draft. If a sixth or seventh rounder makes an impact in any way whether it is as a pure special teams player or a rotational guy who may see 10 plays a game or a back up QB, they are a good pick. To say a sixth or seventh rounder is only a good pick if they are starting or at least a heavy rotation guy is not dealing with reality.

Please when you are evaluating players the Pats have selected, please look at what round they were selected and where in that round they were selected before commenting.

 

[PATRIOT64]

If i didn't know any better by reading the 1000 threads in this post I would have thought this thread was made after the Patriots were eliminated from the playoffs

Instead of saying who sucks and who does not and arguing this amongst ourselves, why not just lets all be happy where they stand right now and through all the injuries and the fact that we should be 5-2 going into Indy shall we?