PFT: High-level executive: "IR issue way bigger than taping"

[PatriotsReign]

Let me ask you something then...say you do something in 2005 under one guy's rule and in 2006 you get a new boss. Do you really think it would be fair for the new boss to listen to a couple of remarks from ex co workers (which is all Goodell has on the 2005 violation IIRC, Tucker's comments) then punish you for something you did before he came into power? I don't.

Goodell can't punish ANY team for something someone "told" him. They would have to have absolute proof. Otherwise, this is just more BS started by the media who has jumped on another comment by a compulsive liar.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Pao's join date is January, 2007, which means he began coming here well before Spygate broke. He's a Chargers fan on a Patriots board. Do you expect him to be here so he can discuss the steroid problems of the Carolina Panthers, when the entire U.S. sporting media is awash in Spygate and the IR issues?

Use some common sense, for crying out loud.

He's a troll who's a fan from another team. You're just a troll. It's obvious.

You're join date is Oct. 2006. You're posts consist of nothing more than antagonizing comments ripe with troll-baiting. If you really are a Patriots fan that is something that has never come through in any of your posts.

You are a troll who is about as transparent as they come, commen sense has shown me that. Go join the Sparklers board and spend your time defending those idiots.

 

[OhExaulted1]

How do you get hate from my posts? Where's the hate? I'm just saying, if they broke a rule they should be punished, as should ANY team that breaks a rule. SD, NE, hell, Miami. Break a rule expect punishment, if it's given to you, accept it and move on.

sdfan

YOU are the one who can't move on. They broke a rule (NOT the one we're talking about in this thread) and were punished for it.

There is NO EVIDENCE besides the comments from a former employee who was TERMINATED. You're basically taking his words as gospel. It's actually amusing to see how easily manipulated you are. If someone says it, then it must be true.

Why is there an injury report in the first place? Does yor job (and that's assuming you even have one) post an injury report?

 

[DaBruinz]

I laughed because you had a problem with it. And because I had to clarify it for you. You have a tremendous talent for missing the point.

Are you really this much of a glutton for punishment? I haven't missed any point that was actually well thought out. Though, that seems to be an issue you have.

LOL, really, this is getting funnier as we go. Play your little games, it's not helping. If you didn't understand that's your problem. It's all beside the point anyway. The point is anyone breaking that rule deserves punishment, ANYONE.

Who is playing games? I'm not. You were the one who chose to play the games and try and change the wording of my questions because you didn't understand how they were written.

BTW, god help us if you have kids because they'll never survive around you with your attitude.

Who said the advantage had to be in the season he was on IR? Let's face it developing a player while he is on IR is an advantage for the team over teams that aren't doing it (even you have to admit that), especially if it's a good player they would have had to release if they had not put him on IR.

You still haven't adequately explained how its an advantage. Also, the players that this is being done with are typically players who need a year or two to develop.

Are you kidding me? They could fit 5 players like Wes Welker on their roster, and still be under the cap, if they could get away with it.

Actually, they couldn't fit 5 players like Wes Welker on their roster and be under the cap. See, what you forget is that teams need to have money available to sign players to the team to replace injuries. If you use up all your cap space with "healthy" players who are on the IR, then you have no way to replace those who actually get injured.

Your attempts to insult me are really cute. Low frustration tolerance syndrome maybe?
But it's against the rules and all other teams aren't doing the exact same thing!

Actually, other teams are doing the same thing with the IR. Goodell said as much during his Post-Matt Walsh Press conference.

Oh yeah, that's right, a team that would break the rule about allowing players to practice while on IR wouldn't dream of putting a player that isn't really injured on IR. I'll bet there are teams doing this in the league right now, doesn't make it right.

Thank you for contradicting yourself. First you say other teams aren't doing it. Now you say that other teams are. You can't make up your mind, can you?

Another load of buchshot into the bush, eh? The Chargers waived him and offered him a spot on their Practice Squad, he refused and signed with the Dolphins. He had several offers but chose the Dolphins.

Do you understand how waivers work? If a player is waived during the season, teams can claim him within 24 hours and he has to go to that team. After that 24 hours, he can sign with any team he wants. However, considering that all 31 teams passed on him and it wasn't until the next week that Welker was signed by the Dolphins, its unlikely that Welker's services were in as high of a demand as you claim. The reason the the Dolphins wanted him was because the guy doing their punt returns had fumbled 3 times during the previous game.

Also, do you really think Welker not being used as a WR that year helped his development?

Come on, you can't be serious. You can't possibly be arguing that Wes would have been better off on the Chargers IR (which was my scenario) than playing for the Dolphins, right?
sdfan

Yes, actually, I can argue that because its a scenario that you have no way to prove. Since Welker would have been allowed to study game film and get mentoring from veterans on the Chargers. What you and many others fail to realize is that you can't assume that just because Welker excelled with Miami that he wouldn't have done the same with the Chargers. Nor can anyone assume that he would have been a failure with the Chargers. Heck, for all we know, when Reche Caldwell went down, Welker would have been their first pick to replace him and could have torn it up there. We just don't know.

 

[pao]

....and yet you make 52 posts on the topic!

I keep making posts because I want to respond to posts like this. I enjoy the give and take. Hell, you even ask me to answer questions you pose below.

You obviously have some deep issues with this topic and Patriots fans in general. You're in denial brother.

Believe what you want, I'm here for entertainment and education and a love for the NFL/Chargers. The Patriots are one of the best teams in the league and a Charger rival for the league crown. I want to hear what their fans think about the Patriot players, their past season, their future season, their coach, and, yes, their scandal too. If, to you, that means I have issues with something then you are the one with the problem, not me. Do you want a discussion or not? If not don't participate. If you do I'll give you my opinion.

EVERY Patriots fan would GLADLY let this go if all the haters would just stop all the BS! pao, even you must agree that there has been a concerted effort by the national media to make sure the Patriots remain in the forefront of NFL fans minds in a purely negative way.

Yes, maybe not to the degree you intimate, but I would have to agree with you on that.

Even you must agree there is NO reason for this to be happening.

Well to the extent it has gone on I agree. But there are reasons it has remainedl in the media spotlight, at least until May 13th.

Even you must agree that any fan who has jumped on the "I eff'n HATE the Patriots & Bill Belichik!" bandwagon are among the most ignorant fans in the history of the NFL.

You are probably right, the "I eff'n HATE the Patriots & BB" bandwagon is probably full of ignorant fools. That doesn't mean that disliking the Patriots &/or Bill Bellichik qualifies you as being one of the most ignorant fans in the history of the NFL. There are things I don't like about the Patriots & Bill Belichik, just as there are things about the Chargers you don't like. Doesn't make either of us ignorant, or trolls.

Answer these questions directly....

Why has the mainstream U.S. media and NFL fans acted as if they WANTED Matt Walsh to have the goods on the Patriots?

It would take way to long to answer this question as fully as it needs to be answered. The short answer, imo, is it is part of the process of a scandal involving the best at something. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Remember this though, this to shall pass.

Why have the media and fans acted as if Walsh DID have something on the Patriots when he clearly made an a.s.s. of himself & was exposed to the entire country as an attention seeking liar?

Well he did say that he knew that what he was doing was wrong in direct contradiction to BB's assertion that he didn't believe he was doing anything wrong. I'm not saying he's telling the truth or not, just that he did say it and that is one reason for the continuing story. Whether he is a liar or not, Goodell believed him and the press and media believed him on that one.

Since Walsh only confirmed that Belichik was upfront with Goodell, why have so many acted as if he was hiding even more than we thought?

Again, Walsh did say that he knew what they were doing was wrong and had a prepared explanation if anyone asked what he was doing. Goodell said he found Walsh to be believable. Not saying I agree or disagree, just answering your question.

Hopefully, YOU aren't one of these idiots!

As I have said in the past, these things, Spygate & the IR violation, are done and over. Time to move on. I believe people and the media will move on and this will fade from memory, albeit slower than Patriot fan wants it to.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Ok, I'll keep this simple for you.

Are you really this much of a glutton for punishment? I haven't missed any point that was actually well thought out. Though, that seems to be an issue you have.

Anyone breaking the IR rule deserves punishment.

Who is playing games? I'm not. You were the one who chose to play the games and try and change the wording of my questions because you didn't understand how they were written.

BTW, god help us if you have kids because they'll never survive around you with your attitude.

Anyone that breaks the IR rule deserves punishment.

You still haven't adequately explained how its an advantage. Also, the players that this is being done with are typically players who need a year or two to develop.

Anyone who breaks the IR rule deserves punishment.

Actually, they couldn't fit 5 players like Wes Welker on their roster and be under the cap. See, what you forget is that teams need to have money available to sign players to the team to replace injuries. If you use up all your cap space with "healthy" players who are on the IR, then you have no way to replace those who actually get injured.

Anyone that breaks the IR rule deserves punishment.

Actually, other teams are doing the same thing with the IR. Goodell said as much during his Post-Matt Walsh Press conference.

Anyone that breaks the IR rule deserves punishment.

Thank you for contradicting yourself. First you say other teams aren't doing it. Now you say that other teams are. You can't make up your mind, can you?

Anyone that breaks the IR rule deserves punishment.

Do you understand how waivers work? If a player is waived during the season, teams can claim him within 24 hours and he has to go to that team. After that 24 hours, he can sign with any team he wants. However, considering that all 31 teams passed on him and it wasn't until the next week that Welker was signed by the Dolphins, its unlikely that Welker's services were in as high of a demand as you claim. The reason the the Dolphins wanted him was because the guy doing their punt returns had fumbled 3 times during the previous game.

Anyone that breaks the IR rules deserves punishment.

Also, do you really think Welker not being used as a WR that year helped his development?

Anyone that breaks the IR rules deserves punishment.

Yes, actually, I can argue that because its a scenario that you have no way to prove. Since Welker would have been allowed to study game film and get mentoring from veterans on the Chargers. What you and many others fail to realize is that you can't assume that just because Welker excelled with Miami that he wouldn't have done the same with the Chargers. Nor can anyone assume that he would have been a failure with the Chargers. Heck, for all we know, when Reche Caldwell went down, Welker would have been their first pick to replace him and could have torn it up there. We just don't know.

Anyone who breaks the IR rules deserves punishment.

Btw, that last argument? Total fantasyland. My example was IF the Chargers put him on IR AND allowed him to practice he wouldn't have advanced in his career as quickly as he did by playing for the Dolphins that same year. He COULDN'T have replaced Reche that year IF the Chargers had hid him on IR. Welker reportedly had offers from multiple teams to join their practice squad, he chose the Dolphins. He chose well. Oh, and any team that breaks the IR rules deserves to be punished.

sdfan

 

[pao]

YOU are the one who can't move on.

No, YOU are. (your turn)

They broke a rule (NOT the one we're talking about in this thread) and were punished for it.

Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

There is NO EVIDENCE besides the comments from a former employee who was TERMINATED. You're basically taking his words as gospel. It's actually amusing to see how easily manipulated you are. If someone says it, then it must be true.

More importantly Goodell took his word for it. Oh, btw, you left out Tucker's allegations. Guess he's a liar too.

Why is there an injury report in the first place? Does yor job (and that's assuming you even have one) post an injury report?

Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Happy Memorial Day. God Bless those that gave their lives and their families.

sdfan

 

[PatriotsReign]

I keep making posts because I want to respond to posts like this. I enjoy the give and take. Hell, you even ask me to answer questions you pose below.

Believe what you want, I'm here for entertainment and education and a love for the NFL/Chargers. The Patriots are one of the best teams in the league and a Charger rival for the league crown. I want to hear what their fans think about the Patriot players, their past season, their future season, their coach, and, yes, their scandal too. If, to you, that means I have issues with something then you are the one with the problem, not me. Do you want a discussion or not? If not don't participate. If you do I'll give you my opinion.

Yes, maybe not to the degree you intimate, but I would have to agree with you on that.

Well to the extent it has gone on I agree. But there are reasons it has remainedl in the media spotlight, at least until May 13th.

You are probably right, the "I eff'n HATE the Patriots & BB" bandwagon is probably full of ignorant fools. That doesn't mean that disliking the Patriots &/or Bill Bellichik qualifies you as being one of the most ignorant fans in the history of the NFL. There are things I don't like about the Patriots & Bill Belichik, just as there are things about the Chargers you don't like. Doesn't make either of us ignorant, or trolls.

It would take way to long to answer this question as fully as it needs to be answered. The short answer, imo, is it is part of the process of a scandal involving the best at something. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Remember this though, this to shall pass.

Well he did say that he knew that what he was doing was wrong in direct contradiction to BB's assertion that he didn't believe he was doing anything wrong. I'm not saying he's telling the truth or not, just that he did say it and that is one reason for the continuing story. Whether he is a liar or not, Goodell believed him and the press and media believed him on that one.

Again, Walsh did say that he knew what they were doing was wrong and had a prepared explanation if anyone asked what he was doing. Goodell said he found Walsh to be believable. Not saying I agree or disagree, just answering your question.

As I have said in the past, these things, Spygate & the IR violation, are done and over. Time to move on. I believe people and the media will move on and this will fade from memory, albeit slower than Patriot fan wants it to.

sdfan

Walsh "saying" anything holds no weight at all. That is just a case of "he said..."

All that matters is proof.

This has been treated as the biggest scandal in NFL history...it is not even close. As a matter of fact, it wasn't even a scandall.

The only fans I stated were stupid & ignorant are those who have jumped on this to justify their hatred and made them feel righteous in it. Opposing fans, teams & coaches aren't any more righteous than ours. We're all the same...despite all this BS.

If you're interested in how I feel about my Patriots and our coach, I'll tell you. I feel even more united with my fellow Patriot fans and I support Belichik more than ever. I guess our owner, Robert Kraft feels the same way since he extened Belichik's contract through 2013 immediately after Goodell handed out his punishment.

How do you feel about that?

 

[blackglass3]

 

[PatriotsReign]

No, YOU are. (your turn)
Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

More importantly Goodell took his word for it. Oh, btw, you left out Tucker's allegations. Guess he's a liar too.

Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

sdfan

No team or player will ever be penalized or fined due to statements by players, former players or 3rd video assistants.

You need to accept that. There will be no injured reserve violations found or penalties levied. And the media can't try to force something by doing their own investigations. The media trying to act as investigators into all things Patriots has got to stop. They had their field day with the walk-through lie and have slandered the Patriots name because of it. Instead of apologizing for ASSUMING a tape existed, they have become even more righteous.

WTF does that tell you about our media and the fans who believe what they write?

 

[PatriotsReign]

"Yes, the Giants stomped the Pats. No, it will not happen again. And yes, 19-0 will be even sweeter this season after going 18-1 last year."

I don't even want the Patriots to go 19-0 this year. I hope we lose our first game just to get that out of the way. That was too much unnecessary pressure on the team and it exhausted them.

I only want the title...

 

[OhExaulted1]

No, YOU are. (your turn)
Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

More importantly Goodell took his word for it. Oh, btw, you left out Tucker's allegations. Guess he's a liar too.

Anyone breaking the IR rules deserves to be punished.

sdfan

Anyone PROVEN to brake the rules should be punished. You obviously don't care about PROOF. Don't let things like FACTS get in the way.

Tucker's allegations are just that. Unsubstantiated unproven allegations from a former terminated employee.

You've got zero in terms of proof.

And by the way, the IR rules suck and are only usefull to mob-run gambling enterprises. There the only ones who loose out when these "rules" are broken.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Happy Memorial Day. God Bless those that gave their lives and their families.

sdfan

Now I know you're a troll. You put this in the middle of this thread?

Nice try.

 

[blackglass3]

I don't even want the Patriots to go 19-0 this year. I hope we lose our first game just to get that out of the way. That was too much unnecessary pressure on the team and it exhausted them.

I only want the title...

Why would you cheer for your team to lose?

And you think "pressure" was why the O Line played so badly? Or was "pressure" the reason David Tyree came through with that helmet catch?

The only pressure the Patriots felt was the pressure of the Giants defense.

 

[jmt57]

For those seeking further penalties due to the IR allegation, you are beating a dead horse in my opinion. In the May 13th press conference Roger Goodell stated that "The way we normally handle those matters, those are a matter of a team fine, if they are verified, and then they are handled on that basis. I would expect that if we were to verify it, that I would consider it part of the fine that I implemented against the Patriots, close to $750,000 between the Patriots and Bill Belichick, and I would not take any further action on that." It's a moot point, people. Even if it is true, Goodell has already stated that he'll consider the punishment part of the previous fine.

I saw on another thread a list of players the Pats have placed on IR this decade. The vast majority were veterans and most of the IR's happened in November or later. There was no pattern of young players going on IR in August. And in this case the player Tucker was referring to was cut the next season, so there was nothing gained by keeping him around.

To be fair and impartial, one needs to look at all teams as well as the Pats regadring IR this decade. First, check out every player the Pats have placed on IR to see if there is a pattern of rookie or second year players being developed while on IR. Next, do the same with the other 31 teams to compare if there is an abnormally large number of Pats rookies om IR. Then research all NFL fines to all teams for IR violations over this period. Citing an example of one or two players or using hearsay for facts is not evidence.

If somebody does this and can show me quantitatively that the Pats numbers are substantially different from the rest of the NFL, then I would say you have a strong case for further penalties. But until I see that documentation, then this is at the least pure speculation, and has the appearance of yet another witch hunt by those with an agenda.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Why would you cheer for your team to lose?

And you think "pressure" was why the O Line played so badly? Or was "pressure" the reason David Tyree came through with that helmet catch?

The only pressure the Patriots felt was the pressure of the Giants defense.

I'd never "cheer" for the Pats to lose. I don't care much about going 19-0. I just want to see them get their 4th ring, that is all.

And of course ring #4 will be placed on the player's/coaches middle finger

 

[OhExaulted1]

Sorry Deus, but his join date is irrelevant. Whether he came here to discuss the state of the union, steroids in pro football, or just to get a gauge on other teams wants prior to the draft, he is, as you stated, a Chargers fan on a Pats board. If he wants to talk football (in much the same vein as Fanetic postured as a Bills/Football fan as an excuse to be here), that's fine by most involved. But he isn't. Just as Fanetic was, he's here to root against us and pile on. And he's proven that time after time. While DaBruinz may have a less than conventional and certainly less than tactful way of evincing that, he has effectively called out Pao in much the same way that Schmessy and others have called out Fanetic as being a "fan" in profession and a troll in action repeatedly. Just because Pao washes your balls every time he posts in the hopes of garnering favor among what appears to be a stalwart on the board, all he's doing is deferring respect to one member here while using it to forward his agenda of hating on the Pats while claiming "fanhood" as a reason. The only difference, in my opinion, is that Fanetic had the ******ed excuse of being a Lawyer who could maybe have used "practicing" his trial and debate skills as an excuse to be here. But Pao, in the midst of professing his innocence at being a troll, proves himself to be nothing but. He continues to claim his love of football and debate as a reason, and he concedes moot points to try and make himself look fair and balanced, but the points which he feels are most damning he stands behind (much as Fanetic did) in the face of evidence to the contrary. He answers questions which he can, ignores those which undermine his point, and stands on the soapbox of "football rooter" to support his claims in the face of all of the above. You fall for it because he worships at the alter of your argumentative Socratic method, but you're missing the big picture. He is a troll. He disguises it well, and has sought out a few people to agree with who argue along the demarcation line of "neutral football fan", but at the end of the day, he's only here to stir the sh!t.

Great post Zeke. The only thing you've missed is the fact that Deus is a troll too. I don't know what he's a fan of other than brow-beating and pulling a high and mighty act on people that are real fans.

Why else would he be here defending some delusional Charger fan? He doesn't come here to talk football. He comes here to troll-bait and stir up controversy. That's his pathetic mission in life.

 

[PatsFan24]

I don't even want the Patriots to go 19-0 this year. I hope we lose our first game just to get that out of the way. That was too much unnecessary pressure on the team and it exhausted them.

I only want the title...

i think after going threw the run of it last year, and getting so close to it, that this year they willl not feel the same way because they know they have won everything up to the super bowl before, and it still was not enough. i dont think 16-0 will be an issue this year because they have already done that.

 

[HSanders]

Goodell can't punish ANY team for something someone "told" him. They would have to have absolute proof. Otherwise, this is just more BS started by the media who has jumped on another comment by a compulsive liar.

I would hope not...but that situation with his punishing the 49ers for a few phone calls from (or was it to?) Rosenhaus and saying it proved tampering with Briggs sure don't set a comforting precedent. I think the Charger fan forgot about my question though.