Peterson at it again: LM this is toughness!

[Deus Irae]

To claim the title of "The Best Offense Ever" wouldn't you have to take into account both facets of offense? What's so hard to understand about that?

Perhaps because that's not how it's judged? A simple detail like that.....

 

[oldskool138]

Perhaps because that's not how it's judged? A simple detail like that.....

How is it judged, then?

The Pats (even with 5 to play) have one of the most prolific passing offenses ever...All I'm saying is that their running game is average. You can't say that it the "Best Offense Ever" if you don't take into account their production on the ground.

 

[antimennai]

Draft Darren McFadden.

God, could you imagine? Brady under center, Moss and Jackson split wide, Welker in the slot, Watson at TE, and McFadden in the backfield... Who the hell do you key on??? Oh man oh man, DRAFT DARREN MCFADDEN.

This shows your complete ignorance for the game. All you are is a fantasy football joke who thinks he knows something, and here is why:

YOU CANT HAVE MOSS AND MCFADDEN ON THE SAME TEAM BECAUSE OF THE SALARY CAP.

Why can't to total numnuts get this? Ok so we draft McF, will he play for free? You seem to think so. Do you have any clue how much it takes to sign the #2 pick over all in the draft compared to the Pats salary cap? Try some research.

Would you please, for the love of this team, attempt to educate yourself about FOOTBALL, not fantasy football instead of choosing to be an ignorant fool. Do you understand that we need to sign CBs (Asante???), ILBs, OLBs, and Moss, decide on Stallworth, and possibly pay Washington as his option may have been already picked up? What if Tedy and Jr retire? Heck, throw Rodney in there to as a possibility. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. Get a freaking clue.

 

[Flying Fungi]

How is it judged, then?

The Pats (even with 5 to play) have one of the most prolific passing offenses ever...All I'm saying is that their running game is average. You can't say that it the "Best Offense Ever" if you don't take into account their production on the ground.

points scored? total yards? oh wait--that doesn't support your argument...

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm not sure what game you watched. But I saw a game where the Pats barely held onto a 3 point win vs a 5-6 Eagles team that is today 5-7.
The culprit? A one dimensional offensive gameplan that put too much pressure on Brady to do it all by himself. A balanced offensive attack would do a lot to relieve pressure from Brady.

I think the New England coaches realize this. The question is, do they have enough confidence in Maroney to include him in this week's gameplan vs the Ravens?
If Maroney is another noshow, this only deepens the concern that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't think Maroney is "tough enough" to cut it.

In the NFL today, there's not a single team, anywhere, that can stop a receiving crew of Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Watson, Gaffney, Jackson, Faulk, Brown, Vrabel, Brady unless Brady simply stinks out the joint. People were pimping the Eagles game as a 'blueprint' when the Patriots put up almost 400 yards against that squad, and were insisting that the Colts had shown how to do it when they lost to New England, at home, even with numerous bad calls in their favor. Running the ball as a primary option isn't going to make sense in most circumstances with this being the team on the field. This is, perhaps, the greatest passing attack in history. Who gives a rat's ass if the 'rushing offense is average' as you claim? The team is 11-0 and has played all year in the same manner that it has played since Belichick took over: by generating game plans specific to the opponent faced that week. What is so hard for you people to understand?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think the number of games Maroney has single-handedly lost us this season speaks volumes. Fire the bastard.

Christ on a crutch, people, we're undefreakinfeated. Do we really think we need to lay everybody out there, every play?

I WILL agree that if BB had no concerns, he'd have stuck Maroney out there against the iggles more. But he did have concerns.

He has one half of the platoon on IR. The other half has already been injured this year. Let's see.... do I want to re-injure him, even though it looks likely we can take the aerial path through at least the games to date, and probably a few more? Or do I want to save him, even though if he is "tough" enough he won't be injured?

Let's put it this way: let's say Peterson needed 6 weeks not 2. I know I know, that would mean his leg would need to be torn off and surgically reattached. Sure. Whatever you say. But let's say he sustained such an injury in mid-season, and the Vikes were likely super bowl contenders.

Or let's say Peterson comes back for a couple of weeks, but gets knocked to the IR because he rushed himself back.

How smart is "tough" then?

Fact is, we can win games giving Maroney lighter duty. Do I have lingering Maroney concerns? Yeah. I still want him to develop that end-zone sense, and a little more straightforward running style when it's clear you'll have to hit the hole hard and make a lot out of a little. I want great out of him, but what we have is serviceable to good.

I'm okay with that. And for all the "Oh yeah just cure it by drafting McFadden" folks out there, that's part of the point: Even high picks are not locks. See Couch, Tim; Smith, Akili; Carter, KiJana; Chung, Eugene.

Repeat after me:

High picks are not locks. High picks are not locks. High picks are not Locks.

We have a serviceable back. We are trying to keep him that way, from the looks of things. At least give this a rest until after this likely historic season is over.

PFnV

 

[oldskool138]

points scored? total yards? oh wait--that doesn't support your argument...

Points scored does since it is total result of the offense (passing and rushing). Yards can be broken down into passing and rushing. The passing yards far outweigh the rushing.

 

[jman924]

Points scored does since it is total result of the offense (passing and rushing). Yards can be broken down into passing and rushing. The passing yards far outweigh the rushing.

Passing yards ALWAYS out weigh rushing yards. You'd be hard pressed to find an offense after the 40's in which the team finished the season with more yards rushing than passing.
When the year is over, the Pats will have rushed for about 2000 yards, at least in the area of 1800, good enough for 100+ a game.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Passing yards ALWAYS out weigh rushing yards. You'd be hard pressed to find an offense after the 40's in which the team finished the season with more yards rushing than passing.
When the year is over, the Pats will have rushed for about 2000 yards, at least in the area of 1800, good enough for 100+ a game.

Funny, the 2006 Falcons managed to accomplish just that feat. I believe they qualify as "an offense after the 40's". That being said, passing is indeed important to modern era teams, however that does not mean that the rushing game can be ignored. Doing so puts the QB at greater risk and puts far to much pressure on him to make all the plays to win the game. A balanced offense is a sensible solution, and has been a successful formula for many offenses, yes even the ones after the "40's" as you put it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not sure what game you watched. But I saw a game where the Pats barely held onto a 3 point win vs a 5-6 Eagles team that is today 5-7.
The culprit? A one dimensional offensive gameplan that put too much pressure on Brady to do it all by himself. A balanced offensive attack would do a lot to relieve pressure from Brady.

I think the New England coaches realize this. The question is, do they have enough confidence in Maroney to include him in this week's gameplan vs the Ravens?
If Maroney is another noshow, this only deepens the concern that perhaps the coaching staff doesn't think Maroney is "tough enough" to cut it.

Are you really going to pretend that the problem was the offense and the running game when this myth has been completely shattered by pretty much everyone? Jaws and Belichick have gone over this ad nauseum, for example. Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

[kolbitr]

Why not compare Maroney to other second-year running backs over a period of time, say fifteen years? We can see how he stacks up against his own peers, and should be able to see where he falls in the crowd of true sensations (such as Tomlinson and Peterson) and the JAG crowd that so many have touted him as being.

I have used Yds/g as the standard, since I feel it is better than total yards, and have added in the total number of attempts, to see roughly how often he is used, and how often he plays, in comparison.

Here is this season (Att, Yds/G):
2007
Addai 202 87.6
White 199 63.1
Maroney 105 58.4
Jones-Drew 134 52.6
Bush 144 47.0

2006 (full season stats, naturally)
Frank Gore 312 105.9
Ron Brown 241 77.5
Cad Williams 225 57.0
Cedric Houston 113 46.8
Cedric Benson 157 43.1
Marion barber 135 40.9
Etc., with +40 carries: Morency, Brandon Jacobs, Gado, Jason Wright

2005
Willie Parker 255 80.1
Julius Jones 257 76.4
Steven Jackson 254 69.7
Tatum Bell 173 61.4
Kevin Jones 186 51.1
Etc., with +40 carries: Mewelde Moore, Greg Jones, Bruce Perry, Maurice Hicks, Michael Turner, Chris Perry, Shaud Williams

2004
Chris Brown 220 97.0
Dom Williams 302 79.2
Lee Suggs 199 74.4
Willis McGahee 284 70.5
Larry Johnson 120 58.1
Quentin Griffin 85 51.8
Onterrio Smith 124 49.5
Etc., with +40 carries: Hicks, Henry, Pinner, Toefield

2003
Clinton Portis 290 122.4
William green 142 79.9
T.J. Duckett 197 48.7
Brian Westbrook 117 40.9
DeShaun Foster 113 30.6
Lamar Gordon 71 39.8
Etc., with +40 carries: Betts, Davenport, Cartwright, Chester Taylor, Tony Fisher

2002
Tomlinson 372 105.2
McAllister 325 92.5
Travis Henry 325 89.9
Michael Bennett 255 81
Anthony Thomas 214 60.1
Marcel Shipp 188 55.6
Etc., with +40 carries: Kevan Barlow, Dee Brown, Lamont Jordon, Nick Goings, Travis Minor

2001
Shaun Alexander 309 82.4
Maurice Smith 237 47.5
Ron Dayne 180 43.1
Mike Anderson 175 42.4
Troy Hambrick 113 36.2
Etc., with +40 carries: Jamel White, Trung Canidate, Thomas Jones, Shawn Bryson, Doug Chapman
*****


That's enough for now, except that I will point out some other players who had very disappointing sophomore years:

Sammy Morris (2001) 20 carries for 4.5 Yards/game
Rudi Johnson (2002) 17 for 9.6/game
Justin Fargas (2004) 35 for 10.5/game
Amos Zeroue (2000) 6 for 1.2/game
Ahman Green (1999) 26 for 8.6/game
Tiki Barber (1998) 52 for 10.4/game
Tyrone Wheatley (1996) 112 for 28.6/game
Stephen Davis (1997) 141 for 40.5/game
Garrison Hearst (1994) 37 for 21.1/game
Robert Smith (1994) 31 for 7.6/game

And arguably comparable to Maroney:

Priest Holmes (1998) 233 for 63/game
Duce Staley (1998) 258 for 66.6/game
Napoleon Kaufman (1996) 150 for 54.6/game (the closest in terms of usage)
Jerome Bettis (1994) 319 for 64.1/game (more productive thus far, but also HOF-bound)

******

Let's consider these numbers together.

 

[jman924]

Funny, the 2006 Falcons managed to accomplish just that feat. I believe they qualify as "an offense after the 40's". That being said, passing is indeed important to modern era teams, however that does not mean that the rushing game can be ignored. Doing so puts the QB at greater risk and puts far to much pressure on him to make all the plays to win the game. A balanced offense is a sensible solution, and has been a successful formula for many offenses, yes even the ones after the "40's" as you put it.

The 2006 Falcons was NOT a football team.

 

[Mayday Malone]

The Falcons may have done it, but they added a new wrinkle in by going to a three running back offense. How's that offense look not that one third of it is in the clink? I can see where people may be concerned about Marony, but I'll reserve judgment until BB makes his final decision on him.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

You cannot polish a turd. I challenge anyone to watch LoMo play and tell me that they see flashes of "greatness". Does the kid do ONE THING that ever makes you stand up and take notice? Has he done ANYTHING in a game since the Cincinnati game last year that had you saying "this kid is special!"? No, I didn't think so. Nobody is saying the kid isn't a quality, serviceable #2 running back. He is what he is. A 10-12 carry, backup running back. He has shown NOTHING to give people hope that he can ever be a 18-20 carry a game WORKHORSE. Nothing. Man, do some of you watch the same LoMo I watch? The guy couldn't be more mediocre.

 

[mdhprime]

You cannot polish a turd. I challenge anyone to watch LoMo play and tell me that they see flashes of "greatness". Does the kid do ONE THING that ever makes you stand up and take notice? Has he done ANYTHING in a game since the Cincinnati game last year that had you saying "this kid is special!"? No, I didn't think so. Nobody is saying the kid isn't a quality, serviceable #2 running back. He is what he is. A 10-12 carry, backup running back. He has shown NOTHING to give people hope that he can ever be a 18-20 carry a game WORKHORSE. Nothing. Man, do some of you watch the same LoMo I watch? The guy couldn't be more mediocre.

If his style of play bothers you so much maybe you shouldn't watch.

 

[antimennai]

You cannot polish a turd.

You would have us believe otherwise with all the posting you do, but I don't think you come across as polished anyway.

Hey are you NEM under another ID? We need to check your IP address.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Andy don't expect NSA to accually tell you what he/she think Maroney should be doing i have asked him/her several times with no answer

 

[antimennai]

Andy don't expect NSA to accually tell you what he/she think Maroney should be doing i have asked him/her several times with no answer

That is because you cannot polish a turd.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a red herring. Nobody has suggested trading Brady except for yourself. The actual, and reasonably proscribed course of action is to replace Maroney with someone who CAN do the job.

<<<My point is that we are better off having Tom Brady and not needing Maroney to carry that load than to not have him, and have Maroney getting more carries.
Maroney has done the job. For some reason you are holding it against him that our offense dictates he does it less often.

Was Maroney held out because he's not tough enough to play through a little pain, or has the coaching staff lost confidence in him? These are legitimate concerns.

<<Maroney was out for 3 games because he was injured. It would appear the team was cautious with bringing him back. There is no indication anywhere that he was asked to play and wasnt tough enough to.

Maroney's numbers have been in decline since game 7. That trend well precedes the Buffalo game. And the Buffalo blowout does little to explain Maroney's disappearing act vs the Eagles.

<<<He can only gain yards when he gets carries. How is a gameplan to go shotgun with 5 WRs a 'disappearing act' by Maroney. Why not just admit you have an axe to grind for some reason?

Except for in the RB position.
Look at other prolific offenses of the past. They all had stud RBs.
The Buffalo Bills had Thurman Thomas, the Rams had Marshall Faulk, the Colts had Edgerrin James and now Joseph Addai.

<<<<But we are on track to being the BEST OFFENSE EVER. Those other teams RAN MORE OFTEN. We are outproducing them. Are you saying we would be better to run more like they did, and score less, like they did.

The Patriots are the exception because Brady is such a transcendant player.
And Moss is quite possibly the perfect receiver for Brady.
That doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon.
The Pats one dimensonal, although great passing attack, nearly got Brady killed in the Eagles game.

<<<<They are not one-dimensional because they have to be they are one-dimensional (and only in certain games) because the choose to be.

If Maroney had any decent amount of RECEIVING ability he would see more snaps. Instead Kevin Faulk, he is supposed to be no more than a 3rd round back, is taking all those snaps. Doesn't that tell you something about Maroney?

<<<<Kevin Faulk is tremendous in the passing game. Personally, I would rather win than be able to say Maroney plays a lot

Another red herring. Football tough and street fighter tough in a dark alley are entirely different things. I might not want Peterson to get my back in a bar fight, but I'd more than welcome his Toughness on the football field, any day of the week over Maroney.

Obviously that was sarcastic.

 

[borg]

With regards to Peterson, I have watched 4 Vikings games this year and that OLine is a runblocking machine. They look gigantic and they are mauling the opposition. Put a quality QB behind that line and they could be a force.