Peterson at it again: LM this is toughness!

[Flying Fungi]

With regards to Peterson, I have watched 4 Vikings games this year and that OLine is a runblocking machine. They look gigantic and they are mauling the opposition. Put a quality QB behind that line and they could be a force.

look what Hutchinson did for Stephen Alexander a few years back in Seattle...and the Seahawks thought they got payback by overpaying for Nate Burleson...

 

[spacecrime]

This is called Toughness people.

It's called stupidity. RBs have an average NFL shelf life of under three years.

Coming back from an injury too soon will shorten a career.

Bo Jackson may have been a better RB than Emmit Smith and other RBs who played for years, but who did more for their team in the long run?

 

[Grizzafted]

Why not compare Maroney to other second-year running backs over a period of time, say fifteen years? We can see how he stacks up against his own peers, and should be able to see where he falls in the crowd of true sensations (such as Tomlinson and Peterson) and the JAG crowd that so many have touted him as being.

I have used Yds/g as the standard, since I feel it is better than total yards, and have added in the total number of attempts, to see roughly how often he is used, and how often he plays, in comparison.

Here is this season (Att, Yds/G):
2007
Addai 202 87.6
White 199 63.1
Maroney 105 58.4
Jones-Drew 134 52.6
Bush 144 47.0

2006 (full season stats, naturally)
Frank Gore 312 105.9
Ron Brown 241 77.5
Cad Williams 225 57.0
Cedric Houston 113 46.8
Cedric Benson 157 43.1
Marion barber 135 40.9
Etc., with +40 carries: Morency, Brandon Jacobs, Gado, Jason Wright

2005
Willie Parker 255 80.1
Julius Jones 257 76.4
Steven Jackson 254 69.7
Tatum Bell 173 61.4
Kevin Jones 186 51.1
Etc., with +40 carries: Mewelde Moore, Greg Jones, Bruce Perry, Maurice Hicks, Michael Turner, Chris Perry, Shaud Williams

2004
Chris Brown 220 97.0
Dom Williams 302 79.2
Lee Suggs 199 74.4
Willis McGahee 284 70.5
Larry Johnson 120 58.1
Quentin Griffin 85 51.8
Onterrio Smith 124 49.5
Etc., with +40 carries: Hicks, Henry, Pinner, Toefield

2003
Clinton Portis 290 122.4
William green 142 79.9
T.J. Duckett 197 48.7
Brian Westbrook 117 40.9
DeShaun Foster 113 30.6
Lamar Gordon 71 39.8
Etc., with +40 carries: Betts, Davenport, Cartwright, Chester Taylor, Tony Fisher

2002
Tomlinson 372 105.2
McAllister 325 92.5
Travis Henry 325 89.9
Michael Bennett 255 81
Anthony Thomas 214 60.1
Marcel Shipp 188 55.6
Etc., with +40 carries: Kevan Barlow, Dee Brown, Lamont Jordon, Nick Goings, Travis Minor

2001
Shaun Alexander 309 82.4
Maurice Smith 237 47.5
Ron Dayne 180 43.1
Mike Anderson 175 42.4
Troy Hambrick 113 36.2
Etc., with +40 carries: Jamel White, Trung Canidate, Thomas Jones, Shawn Bryson, Doug Chapman
*****


That's enough for now, except that I will point out some other players who had very disappointing sophomore years:

Sammy Morris (2001) 20 carries for 4.5 Yards/game
Rudi Johnson (2002) 17 for 9.6/game
Justin Fargas (2004) 35 for 10.5/game
Amos Zeroue (2000) 6 for 1.2/game
Ahman Green (1999) 26 for 8.6/game
Tiki Barber (1998) 52 for 10.4/game
Tyrone Wheatley (1996) 112 for 28.6/game
Stephen Davis (1997) 141 for 40.5/game
Garrison Hearst (1994) 37 for 21.1/game
Robert Smith (1994) 31 for 7.6/game

And arguably comparable to Maroney:

Priest Holmes (1998) 233 for 63/game
Duce Staley (1998) 258 for 66.6/game
Napoleon Kaufman (1996) 150 for 54.6/game (the closest in terms of usage)
Jerome Bettis (1994) 319 for 64.1/game (more productive thus far, but also HOF-bound)

******

Let's consider these numbers together.

This analysis does not take into account durability, which is one of my major concerns of Maroney. You cannot compare a back who got 100 yards a game over 14 starts to a guy who got similar numbers over 9 or 10 starts. If a back consistently misses 3-4 games a year due to injury, there is a problem. I know it's only his second year, but he seems to get hurt frequently.

 

[A.C Vegas]

You cannot polish a turd. I challenge anyone to watch LoMo play and tell me that they see flashes of "greatness". Does the kid do ONE THING that ever makes you stand up and take notice? Has he done ANYTHING in a game since the Cincinnati game last year that had you saying "this kid is special!"? No, I didn't think so. Nobody is saying the kid isn't a quality, serviceable #2 running back. He is what he is. A 10-12 carry, backup running back. He has shown NOTHING to give people hope that he can ever be a 18-20 carry a game WORKHORSE. Nothing. Man, do some of you watch the same LoMo I watch? The guy couldn't be more mediocre.

So the fact that when he is in there and has more then a 2 inch hole to break through he almost always goes from 5-10 yards. you also say that he is not tough cause he doesn carry 20% a game. well i did some research and i picked a random player from theh 10 ten all time rushers (Barry sanders) and i found that in only 53% of his games did he carry more then 20 times.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It tells us that the really good backs were putting up at least around 80 yards a game pretty early. There are some stinkers amongst them though, such as William Green at 79.9.

Notables:
Addai 87.6
Gore 105.9
Brown 77.5
Parker 80.1
Julius Jones 77.5
Portis 122.4

Why not compare Maroney to other second-year running backs over a period of time, say fifteen years? We can see how he stacks up against his own peers, and should be able to see where he falls in the crowd of true sensations (such as Tomlinson and Peterson) and the JAG crowd that so many have touted him as being.

I have used Yds/g as the standard, since I feel it is better than total yards, and have added in the total number of attempts, to see roughly how often he is used, and how often he plays, in comparison.

Here is this season (Att, Yds/G):
2007
Addai 202 87.6
White 199 63.1
Maroney 105 58.4
Jones-Drew 134 52.6
Bush 144 47.0

2006 (full season stats, naturally)
Frank Gore 312 105.9
Ron Brown 241 77.5
Cad Williams 225 57.0
Cedric Houston 113 46.8
Cedric Benson 157 43.1
Marion barber 135 40.9
Etc., with +40 carries: Morency, Brandon Jacobs, Gado, Jason Wright

2005
Willie Parker 255 80.1
Julius Jones 257 76.4
Steven Jackson 254 69.7
Tatum Bell 173 61.4
Kevin Jones 186 51.1
Etc., with +40 carries: Mewelde Moore, Greg Jones, Bruce Perry, Maurice Hicks, Michael Turner, Chris Perry, Shaud Williams

2004
Chris Brown 220 97.0
Dom Williams 302 79.2
Lee Suggs 199 74.4
Willis McGahee 284 70.5
Larry Johnson 120 58.1
Quentin Griffin 85 51.8
Onterrio Smith 124 49.5
Etc., with +40 carries: Hicks, Henry, Pinner, Toefield

2003
Clinton Portis 290 122.4
William green 142 79.9
T.J. Duckett 197 48.7
Brian Westbrook 117 40.9
DeShaun Foster 113 30.6
Lamar Gordon 71 39.8
Etc., with +40 carries: Betts, Davenport, Cartwright, Chester Taylor, Tony Fisher

2002
Tomlinson 372 105.2
McAllister 325 92.5
Travis Henry 325 89.9
Michael Bennett 255 81
Anthony Thomas 214 60.1
Marcel Shipp 188 55.6
Etc., with +40 carries: Kevan Barlow, Dee Brown, Lamont Jordon, Nick Goings, Travis Minor

2001
Shaun Alexander 309 82.4
Maurice Smith 237 47.5
Ron Dayne 180 43.1
Mike Anderson 175 42.4
Troy Hambrick 113 36.2
Etc., with +40 carries: Jamel White, Trung Canidate, Thomas Jones, Shawn Bryson, Doug Chapman
*****


That's enough for now, except that I will point out some other players who had very disappointing sophomore years:

Sammy Morris (2001) 20 carries for 4.5 Yards/game
Rudi Johnson (2002) 17 for 9.6/game
Justin Fargas (2004) 35 for 10.5/game
Amos Zeroue (2000) 6 for 1.2/game
Ahman Green (1999) 26 for 8.6/game
Tiki Barber (1998) 52 for 10.4/game
Tyrone Wheatley (1996) 112 for 28.6/game
Stephen Davis (1997) 141 for 40.5/game
Garrison Hearst (1994) 37 for 21.1/game
Robert Smith (1994) 31 for 7.6/game

And arguably comparable to Maroney:

Priest Holmes (1998) 233 for 63/game
Duce Staley (1998) 258 for 66.6/game
Napoleon Kaufman (1996) 150 for 54.6/game (the closest in terms of usage)
Jerome Bettis (1994) 319 for 64.1/game (more productive thus far, but also HOF-bound)

******

Let's consider these numbers together.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Twisting stats too fit your opnion is fun huh

 

[PaulNEPats]

The people who say the RB situation is fine are probably the ones who said the WR situation was fine with Caldwell as the #1 last year

 

[A.C Vegas]

The people who say the RB situation is fine are probably the ones who said the WR situation was fine with Caldwell as the #1 last year

but then again last year we what we had we should have gone to eh super bowl any way. Besides if LM goes 100+ in the next couple games all the Chicken Littles will find a new target

 

[kolbitr]

This analysis does not take into account durability, which is one of my major concerns of Maroney. You cannot compare a back who got 100 yards a game over 14 starts to a guy who got similar numbers over 9 or 10 starts. If a back consistently misses 3-4 games a year due to injury, there is a problem. I know it's only his second year, but he seems to get hurt frequently.

Jeez, I don't even get a thanks a lot kolbitr for my hard work? Just a criticism?

The list actually does take durability into account, in a sense. In most cases, the order of backs by Yards/game is also their order by games played/season over the first two seasons. Many seasons are like 2001-2002, where the order of games is also equal to the backs' productivity: Tomlinson (32 games), McAllister (31), Henry (29), Bennett (29), Thomas (26), Shipp (26).

Most years have some outliers, often indicating serious injury or other factor that limited playing time the first year, such as Willie Parker (played in only 8 games his rookie year), William Green (7 games 2nd year), Julius Jones (8 games rookie year), and so on. But overall, the list does not really camouflage anyone.

The average number of games played for the running backs in the above list is 26.3 over their first two years. Maroney will have played in 23 games, assuming he plays tonight and, if he doesn't miss any more games this year, he will be at 27, above the average.

Again, for consideration, note the following numbers:

Garrison Hearst: 14 games his first two years
Priest Holmes: 23 games his first two years
Rudi Johnson: 9 games his first two years
Robert Smith: 22 games his first two years

 

[VJCPatriot]

but then again last year we what we had we should have gone to eh super bowl any way. Besides if LM goes 100+ in the next couple games all the Chicken Littles will find a new target

Sure if you mean choking away a 2nd half lead in the AFCCG and not being able to convert crucial 3rd downs to run out the clock fits your definiton of "we should have won anyway." Yeah Caldwell's dropsies were ever SO adequate, adequate to piss away a chance at the Superbowl.

Wow I can't believe people can still sit here and defend that 2006 WR corps. They were pathetic, can we be honest? The only reason the Pats got that far is Brady tried to will them through the playoffs.

We finally gave Brady some passing weapons this year and he is setting records. What's wrong with giving Brady a running game next year so he can keep his head attached to his shoulders? Is that so hard to understand?

 

[National Sports Advisors]

So the fact that when he is in there and has more then a 2 inch hole to break through he almost always goes from 5-10 yards. you also say that he is not tough cause he doesn carry 20% a game. well i did some research and i picked a random player from theh 10 ten all time rushers (Barry sanders) and i found that in only 53% of his games did he carry more then 20 times.

Only 53%???? LOL! Glass has done it less than 5%!