Pats "TOP" priorty

[MrBigglesWorth]

Dear PatsNazi (DaBruinz), (if this is offensive to anyone, i apologize in advance, i was only playing off the soup-nazi from seinfeld).

Please find me where i said anything about actually drafting a safety. you claim you people dont read posts and then make outrageous comments. well, YOU just did that.

I said if we cant find one better than Sanders the S's in the draft are pathetic. Sanders stinks, you can believe whatever you want. the guy cant cover, he never makes any big plays, and he takes horrible angles to the ball in the air and the ball carriers.


i have actually posted on this board, maybe not this thread, that i could care less what position we draft, I just want a damn good player.

I personally would love to upgrade at Safety, i would love a playmaker there. I think in a perfect world I would love to draft an impact CB or S in the first round, then go OLB and OG in the 2nd round. Preferably an OLB that can get to the QB. you may claim we have that on our roster, and maybe we do, but i want more than 1, and ill let them compete for the starting job. but, at the end of the day, i could care less. i just want good players on this team.


so, you can claim i "won't ever learn" but apparently you dont even learn from yourself and you put words in peoples mouths. like i said before....
If there is not a Safety in the draft better than James Sanders in the 1st or 2nd round, the safeties in this draft STINK....and NO I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT REACHING.

So, when the three headed monster meets (you, BB, and Pioli), please clarify to them my position. Thanks bud.

and, keep in mind its 2:00 in the morning and you kept me from going to bed early because i had to make sure most of what i wrote made sense, because god forbid someone writes something with grammatical errors.

don't pay attention. some people claim to bring stuff to the table. the problem is they sit at the kiddie table.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

you don't pick binkies; binkies pick you.....you're helpless as far as timing goes.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[billdog3484]

has anyone actually been watching the pats this year? all i hear from people is we need DE and lBs. those are the position we DON'T need to waste draft picks on. we need CB, TE, S, OL. we have to address these position either through the draft or free agency.

the guy we need is malcolm jenkins. we have to have a top 10 draft pick for that. hopefully, cassell will be traded somewhere whose team picks in the top 10.

HAHA, be prepared for the all out attack by DaBruinz and MigTech tomorrow when they read this. this ought to be fun.

hopefully we will get a first round pick for cassel, but i wouldnt expect it being in the top 10, although its a possibility. if that is the case, wed have 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 2 thirds in the top 3 rounds which gives us a lot of opportunities to upgrade in numerous areas. i would love to pick up CB, S, OLB, OL, DL, and TE. obviously, in the draft things dont always fall the way you would hope so if we can at least pick up some good young players at 3-5 of those positions, id be happy

 

[DaBruinz]

has anyone actually been watching the pats this year? all i hear from people is we need DE and lBs. those are the position we DON'T need to waste draft picks on. we need CB, TE, S, OL. we have to address these position either through the draft or free agency.

the guy we need is malcolm jenkins. we have to have a top 10 draft pick for that. hopefully, cassell will be traded somewhere whose team picks in the top 10.

Have you read Patriots Reign? How about Management Secrets of the New England Patriots Vol. 1 & 2? How about any of the other books that have come out on the Patriots? No? You should. Because you'd learn a lot on how the Pats draft, how they review players, how they set up their draft boards and such.

The Patriots 3-4 2 gap defense is predicated on 2 things. The D-line controlling the gaps and the LBers stuffing those gaps or shooting them to bring pressure on the QB. If you review the years when the Pats defense was better, you'll see they were able to bring pressure from any of the 4 LBer positions on any given play. They were unable to do that this year. Mainly because they didn't have the personnel to do it or the personnel they had were too raw for the coaches to feel comfortable doing it.

The Patriots getting pressure from the front seven, makes the lives of the DBs easier. Because pressuring the QB results in more errant throws and more interceptions.

Do they need to look at the positions you mentioned? Yep. But, the reality is that drafting only for need, as you suggested, will not improve your team. Its short term thinking and it usually causes your franchise more problems than not.

I can guarantee you that the people such as myself, BOR, MG, and others have watched and re-watched games and understand more about how the Patriots do and don't do things than the average fans. We aren't Piople or Belichick by any stretch of the imagination, but we are more learned than many of the people who post on this board.

 

[billdog3484]

better dabruinz, much better. that wasnt as obnoxious as other posts. theres still hope for you yet

 

[E Belichick Unum]

I can guarantee you that the people such as myself, BOR, MG, and others have watched and re-watched games and understand more about how the Patriots do and don't do things than the average fans. We aren't Piople or Belichick by any stretch of the imagination, but we are more learned than many of the people who post on this board.

When I grow up, I want to be just like DaBruinz. If you forgive my ignorance I will forgive your arrogance.

 

[mcsully]

Have you read Patriots Reign? How about Management Secrets of the New England Patriots Vol. 1 & 2? How about any of the other books that have come out on the Patriots? No? You should. Because you'd learn a lot on how the Pats draft, how they review players, how they set up their draft boards and such.

The Patriots 3-4 2 gap defense is predicated on 2 things. The D-line controlling the gaps and the LBers stuffing those gaps or shooting them to bring pressure on the QB. If you review the years when the Pats defense was better, you'll see they were able to bring pressure from any of the 4 LBer positions on any given play. They were unable to do that this year. Mainly because they didn't have the personnel to do it or the personnel they had were too raw for the coaches to feel comfortable doing it.

The Patriots getting pressure from the front seven, makes the lives of the DBs easier. Because pressuring the QB results in more errant throws and more interceptions.

Do they need to look at the positions you mentioned? Yep. But, the reality is that drafting only for need, as you suggested, will not improve your team. Its short term thinking and it usually causes your franchise more problems than not.

I can guarantee you that the people such as myself, BOR, MG, and others have watched and re-watched games and understand more about how the Patriots do and don't do things than the average fans. We aren't Piople or Belichick by any stretch of the imagination, but we are more learned than many of the people who post on this board.

seriously.. How do you get your head thru the doorway

My God.. Any person with a brain can read a book and repeat the message on a forum.. hell I can get my 10 year old nephew to do it.. And atleast he wouldn't be rude about it..

Seriously half you the stuff you write is your point of view and sometimes I disagee with it and sometimes I agree with it.. & when you write it out, its interesting.. UNTIL YOU BASH someone else for a different point of view.. SIR you have no class when you do that.. Just stick with your position and back it up.. No need to belittle someone else for their point of view. Only makes you look smaller..

 

[billdog3484]

When I grow up, I want to be just like DaBruinz. If you forgive my ignorance I will forgive your arrogance.

haha. ive had a lot of fun going back and forth with him. hes actually knowledgeable but has a problem with constructive criticism. he put me on block or something because i wouldnt tolerate his nonsense and hes not man enough to hear my views and argue like gentlemen

 

[Synovia]

The Patriots 3-4 2 gap defense is predicated on 2 things. The D-line controlling the gaps and the LBers stuffing those gaps or shooting them to bring pressure on the QB. If you review the years when the Pats defense was better, you'll see they were able to bring pressure from any of the 4 LBer positions on any given play. They were unable to do that this year. Mainly because they didn't have the personnel to do it or the personnel they had were too raw for the coaches to feel comfortable doing it.

The patriots won a superbowl with Earthwind Moreland and Randal Gay IIRC, after Asante got hurt.


DaBruinz is completely correct here. The CBs aren't the problem, the absolute lack of pressure is. Take a look at Denver... their CBs are both phenominal, and their pass defense sucks. We could have both Asante and Nmandii right now, and we still wouldn't be able to defend the pass, because we can't pressure the QB.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

The patriots won a superbowl with Earthwind Moreland and Randal Gay IIRC, after Asante got hurt.


DaBruinz is completely correct here. The CBs aren't the problem, the absolute lack of pressure is. Take a look at Denver... their CBs are both phenominal, and their pass defense sucks. We could have both Asante and Nmandii right now, and we still wouldn't be able to defend the pass, because we can't pressure the QB.

If this team had a defensive backfield and the rest of the team were exactly the same with the same injuries, we would have made the playoffs. I am not sure the same can be said if the DB stayed the same and the OLB's had 5 more sacks, one for each loss. Had Ellis Hobbles not been burnt as often as he was we probably would have won anextra game, and made the playoffs. Had Deltha O'Neil been replaced with Assante or Nmandii we would have made the playoffs.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better pass rush, but it is essential that the defensive backfield get better. If we go into next year with Ellis as our #1, we will not make the playoffs next year either. Ellis is a nice player, but he shouldn't be on the field for every defensive snap. He is a nickle at best.

 

[Synovia]

Yes, it would be nice to have a better pass rush, but it is essential that the defensive backfield get better. If we go into next year with Ellis as our #1, we will not make the playoffs next year either. Ellis is a nice player, but he shouldn't be on the field for every defensive snap. He is a nickle at best.

Again, the defensive backfield is fine. The problem is that they're being forced to defend receivers for 15 seconds.


Look at San Diego: Their cornerbacks are great, and their pass defence has been awful since Merriman went down. Its not coincidence that the Patriots pass defense got much worse last year when Colvin went down. Its not coincidence that the steelers and ravens are consistently drafting pass rushing linebackers high and consistently have great pass defenses despite having mediocre CBs, and no, Samari Rolle hasn't been a good CB for 4 years, so don't start.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Again, the defensive backfield is fine. The problem is that they're being forced to defend receivers for 15 seconds.


Look at San Diego: Their cornerbacks are great, and their pass defence has been awful since Merriman went down. Its not coincidence that the Patriots pass defense got much worse last year when Colvin went down. Its not coincidence that the steelers and ravens are consistently drafting pass rushing linebackers high and consistently have great pass defenses despite having mediocre CBs, and no, Samari Rolle hasn't been a good CB for 4 years, so don't start.

I watched every game and I have to say that the D did apply pressure most of the time but it didn't translate into sacks. But the thing is they made the QB move his feet and leave the pocket alot of the time. The DB's mostly got burnt on go patterns down the sideline and the safetys got burnt in the middle of the field. I have to admit that the D got much better when Colvin and Seau came back to the team. Also, I am not sure that they blitzed as much as they did last year.

I admit that I don't like Ellis as a #1, but the defense on the whole had problems. There were times early when they couldn't stop the run, and they couldn't stop the TE down the middle the whole year, but when a DB get beat it usually cost us a TD, and Ellis got toasted this year. Deltha was a scrub who was waived by a bad team, and the two rookies played like rookies.

The season is over and fingers are being pointed all over the board. Mine is being pointed directly at the DB's, others are being pointed at the LB's and DL. 11-5 is a pretty good record, I just hope it isn't the beginning of the end of the run. Mayo is a beast but he is the only really bright spot out of the last draft. We should have at least a 1, 2 twos and 2 threes in this draft. We need to hit on half of those picks to restock, 3/4 to be really lucky. If we only hit on our first and a UFA again this year we are going top be in trouble.

 

[patchick]

Again, the defensive backfield is fine. The problem is that they're being forced to defend receivers for 15 seconds.


Look at San Diego: Their cornerbacks are great, and their pass defence has been awful since Merriman went down. Its not coincidence that the Patriots pass defense got much worse last year when Colvin went down. Its not coincidence that the steelers and ravens are consistently drafting pass rushing linebackers high and consistently have great pass defenses despite having mediocre CBs, and no, Samari Rolle hasn't been a good CB for 4 years, so don't start.

Hold on -- since this is a draft board the bolded statement is particuarly significant, and I believe it's completely false.

The Ravens only have one day-1 OLB on their roster (Suggs), and he was drafted 6 years ago. If you like Jarret Johnson, he was a 4th-rounder.

The Steelers took Woodley in Round 2, but the guy starting opposite him, Harrison (the one with 16 sacks) was undrafted.

If you're looking for evidence that spending premium picks on OLBs is the key to a great pass defense, I'd look elsewhere.

 

[Synovia]

Mayo is a beast but he is the only really bright spot out of the last draft.

Your expectations for what a team should get out of the draft are ridiculous.


The patriots got:
2 Starting quality ILB (one DROY)
2 CBs who are atleast nickleback quality (and have the potential to be starters)


And then theres a handful of players who look decent but its too early to tell (O'Connel, Crable, Redd, Ruud, Slater, etc).


Getting one or two starting quality players out of each draft is a decent draft. They've got atleast two starters at this point, and may end up with 4 or 5. Thats a great looking draft at this point.

 

[Synovia]

The Steelers took Woodley in Round 2, but the guy starting opposite him, Harrison (the one with 16 sacks) was undrafted.

If you're looking for evidence that spending premium picks on OLBs is the key to a great pass defense, I'd look elsewhere.

I'm not. I'm saying that having great pass rushing OLBs is absolutely necessary to having a good pass defense in the 3-4. The fact that Harrison and Woodley aren't premium picks is irrelevant. The Ravens and Steelers could afford to use lower picks because they had premium players (A.Thomas, Porter, etc) already, and could afford to give them time to develop. The Patriots can't.

 

[patchick]

I'm not. I'm saying that having great pass rushing OLBs is absolutely necessary to having a good pass defense in the 3-4. The fact that Harrison and Woodley aren't premium picks is irrelevant. The Ravens and Steelers could afford to use lower picks because they had premium players (A.Thomas, Porter, etc) already, and could afford to give them time to develop. The Patriots can't.

Look, you said "Its not coincidence that the steelers and ravens are consistently drafting pass rushing linebackers high and consistently have great pass defenses despite having mediocre CBs". This is a draft board, so the truth of that statement matters a LOT. (And as for those premium players Thomas and Porter, neither of them was a high draft pick either.)

Yes, on balance the higher you pick a player -- at any position -- the better your chances of striking gold. But the added value you get by spending that high pick varies by position, and that has to be taken into account in your draft/FA strategy.

 

[Synovia]

Look, you said "Its not coincidence that the steelers and ravens are consistently drafting pass rushing linebackers high and consistently have great pass defenses despite having mediocre CBs". This is a draft board, so the truth of that statement matters a LOT. (And as for those premium players Thomas and Porter, neither of them was a high draft pick either.)

Yes, on balance the higher you pick a player -- at any position -- the better your chances of striking gold. But the added value you get by spending that high pick varies by position, and that has to be taken into account in your draft/FA strategy.

Again, the steelers draft enough LBs that they don't always have to draft high. They have the advantage of being able to wait for guys to develop. The patriots can't because they need upgrades now.


In the last 10 years, the steelers have drafted 7 LBs in the top 3 rounds. The ravens 8. They've both drafted a host of linebackers in the laters rounds.


You know what the Pats have done? 2 This year in Crable and Meyo. Previous to that? Andy Katzenmoyer. No 4ths. Ryan Claridge is the only 5th round pick they've used on a LB. Handful of 6 and 7s.

 

[Jimke]

If this team had a defensive backfield and the rest of the team were exactly the same with the same injuries, we would have made the playoffs. I am not sure the same can be said if the DB stayed the same and the OLB's had 5 more sacks, one for each loss. Had Ellis Hobbles not been burnt as often as he was we probably would have won anextra game, and made the playoffs. Had Deltha O'Neil been replaced with Assante or Nmandii we would have made the playoffs.

Yes, it would be nice to have a better pass rush, but it is essential that the defensive backfield get better. If we go into next year with Ellis as our #1, we will not make the playoffs next year either. Ellis is a nice player, but he shouldn't be on the field for every defensive snap. He is a nickle at best.

The Patriots did a good job addressing the linebacker position this
past draft. I'd like to see them do the same thing at cornerback next
year. Draft one on day one, one on day two, and add a couple of highly regarded UDFAs. Let them compete for The 53 man roster and practice
squad. Stay away from washed up veterans.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Patriots did a good job addressing the linebacker position this
past draft. I'd like to see them do the same thing at cornerback next
year. Draft one on day one, one on day two, and add a couple of highly regarded UDFAs. Let them compete for The 53 man roster and practice
squad. Stay away from washed up veterans.

:idontgetit:

2008 Draft:

2nd round (Day One): Wheatley
4th round (Day Two): Wilhite

:confused2:

 

[E Belichick Unum]

:idontgetit:

2008 Draft:

2nd round (Day One): Wheatley
4th round (Day Two): Wilhite

:confused2:

They need a STUD DB, Wheatly and Wilhite might be very good players players, or they might be servicable DB who are out of the league in a few years, but they really didn't leave a lasting impression on the field, although Wilhite played well at the end of the season. The problem is neither one of them looked like #1's.

This team is a very good team, having inferior DB's is a glaring weakness, even if we had a fair NFL backfield, we are playing last week, and probably this week also.

Suppose we get a couple of 2's and a couple of 3's for Cassel, that gives us 7 picks in the top 100 picks and a couple of extra early picks next year. We should be able to get a very good DB prospect in the first round, maybe a OLB, ILB and RB in the second. Then Belichick can start over again with another DB, or TE in the forth.