Pats "TOP" priorty

[jsull87]

can we stop fighting and actually talk about the draft he was talking about need not order we should pick or that wed brake the bank for a long snapper he just considers resigning paxton important. personally i think this draft is pretty unpredictable. i was on the if we can get a silb to go with mayo would be good e.g usc's maluga or lautharius from ohio (bad spelling sorry). but if bb wants ad in there then i wouldn't mind a signing like suggs on the outside reaffirming a strong linebacker corps, which would mean in the draft i could see more of a OL or TE or seconday. even tho like DaBruins i don't think BB or pioli are very high on taking cb's that high. I can't see a RB being drafted high or at all because if you saw the last 4 or 5 games all our rb's played pretty well particularly in my opinion Jordan who before he came back i would have said would be dropped. i don't know about nt because i believe we will do everything to resign wilfork. I personally am pretty optomistic about the draft because if best case happens and cassel tagged n traded for a 1st and a couple of underclassmen declare then it could be a big draft for the pats.

I will say tho If there is no free agent movement from the pats and everything went how alot of the mock drafts say. then i would tag n trade cassel hopefully with SF then select Maluga (once again not going to try n spell it) then best player available at our 2nd 1st rounder. then with the 2 2's and 2 3's go one cb, one saftey, one OL and one NT or DE.

 

[DaBruinz]

VJC and Mr. Biggles - Since you two have such a hard time reading what is said (to the point where you even got me sidetracked), the PURPOSE of this thread was to develop a better understanding of the "NEED" component of the Pats "Best Value Available" equation.

Lets recap:

1) The Patriots review their roster, rating their players and the players who are UFAs and RFAs

2) They look at the status of each player remaining on the team. IE: How long are they signed for

So, lets look at the roster at the start of free agency. For the purpose of this excercise, I am going to include ERFA since they have no real say in the matter: (note: players in bold are RFA/UFA in 2010)

QB: 3 - Tom Brady, Kevin O'Connell, Matt Gutierrez
RB: 4 - Maroney, Faulk, Morris and Benjarvus Green-Ellis
FB: 0
OT: 4 - Matt Light, Nick Kaczur, Mark Lavoir, Ryan O'Callaghan
OG: 2 - Logan Mankins, Stephen Neal
C/G: 2 - Dan Koppen, Billy Yates, Dan Connolly
WR: 5 - Moss, Welker, Washington, Aiken, Slater
TE: 3 - Watson, Thomas, DeVree
NT: 1 - Wilfork
DE: 4 - Warren, Seymour, Green, Smith
OLB: 4 - Vrabel, Thomas, Redd, Crabel
ILB: 4 - Bruschi, Guyton, Mayo, Ruud
CB: 6 - Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, Spann
S: 2 - Ventrone (ERFA), Meriweather,
LS: 0
P: 0
K: 1 - Gostkowski


3) The Patriots review how the team did in certain aspects of the game looking for areas of improvement

4) The Patriots look at the importance of each position in terms of the aspect of the game.

They review all this information and set the weight of the need category based on it. From past chats by BB, once this weight of the need is set, they don't generally change it once its set. The question is, when do they finalize it. My feeling is that they do so at the end of March. But that is just a guess.

Again, this is just one part of the drafting equation.

 

[DaBruinz]

You just said that in your original post that Long Snapper is a need. DB, Make up your mind on whether or not that are needs or not. People have perceived your posting as a top 10 list of what we need to fill. Like most have said getting Paxton inked is not going to break the bank. I do believe that Wilfork will get done as well as he is the cog to the 3/4 being successful.

Thank you for me. Yes, I know how it was perceived and its clearly NOT perceived based on the words that were actually written, but based on people insisting on exaggerating and not bothering to go by what was said.

We all know that Belichick and Pioli draft based on perceived value to the Patriots organization. And that perceived value takes into consideration that person's tangible skills, intangibles (like leadership and instinct), and the need to the team. With that being said, here is I see the Pats top priorities based on need only

Please read the part IN BOLD. The need is part of the Value equation. That is what I was trying to focus on. That is what you missed. It is what VJC missed and its what Biggles missed.

The whole point of this thread was to weight the NEED as part of the VALUE equation. Not to set up a top 10 priority listing.

 

[DaBruinz]

can we stop fighting and actually talk about the draft he was talking about need not order we should pick or that wed brake the bank for a long snapper he just considers resigning paxton important. personally i think this draft is pretty unpredictable. i was on the if we can get a silb to go with mayo would be good e.g usc's maluga or lautharius from ohio (bad spelling sorry). but if bb wants ad in there then i wouldn't mind a signing like suggs on the outside reaffirming a strong linebacker corps, which would mean in the draft i could see more of a OL or TE or seconday. even tho like DaBruins i don't think BB or pioli are very high on taking cb's that high. I can't see a RB being drafted high or at all because if you saw the last 4 or 5 games all our rb's played pretty well particularly in my opinion Jordan who before he came back i would have said would be dropped. i don't know about nt because i believe we will do everything to resign wilfork. I personally am pretty optomistic about the draft because if best case happens and cassel tagged n traded for a 1st and a couple of underclassmen declare then it could be a big draft for the pats.

I will say tho If there is no free agent movement from the pats and everything went how alot of the mock drafts say. then i would tag n trade cassel hopefully with SF then select Maluga (once again not going to try n spell it) then best player available at our 2nd 1st rounder. then with the 2 2's and 2 3's go one cb, one saftey, one OL and one NT or DE.

Thanks Jsull. However, you are off slightly with what I was trying to get at. I was just trying to focus on one factor of the Best Value equation that Belichick and Pioli use. And I even lost sight of that in my attempts to defend my stance.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here is me updating my list slightly..

1) Defensive End
2) Offensive Guard
3) Nose Tackle
4) Long Snapper
5) Safety - SS to Tweener
6) Pass-Rushing OLB
7) ILB
8) Cornerback
9) Punter
10) Offensive Tackle
11) Tight End
12) Center
13) Running back
14) Wide Receiver

Again, remember, this list of needs is just ONE part of the Best Value equation that is used by the Pats in the draft.

 

[Warren94]

not picking on the list. but Cornerback has to be higher. Wilhite and Wheatley have shown improvement but Wheatley and his wrist issue and Wilhite will be a solid nickel. I think we need to draft someone not necessarily in the first two rounds but maybe a third rounder such as Fryar out of western michigan.

 

[Warren94]

VJC and Mr. Biggles - Since you two have such a hard time reading what is said (to the point where you even got me sidetracked), the PURPOSE of this thread was to develop a better understanding of the "NEED" component of the Pats "Best Value Available" equation.

Lets recap:

1) The Patriots review their roster, rating their players and the players who are UFAs and RFAs

2) They look at the status of each player remaining on the team. IE: How long are they signed for

So, lets look at the roster at the start of free agency. For the purpose of this excercise, I am going to include ERFA since they have no real say in the matter: (note: players in bold are RFA/UFA in 2010)

QB: 3 - Tom Brady, Kevin O'Connell, Matt Gutierrez
RB: 4 - Maroney, Faulk, Morris and Benjarvus Green-Ellis
FB: 0
OT: 4 - Matt Light, Nick Kaczur, Mark Lavoir, Ryan O'Callaghan
OG: 2 - Logan Mankins, Stephen Neal
C/G: 2 - Dan Koppen, Billy Yates, Dan Connolly
WR: 5 - Moss, Welker, Washington, Aiken, Slater
TE: 3 - Watson, Thomas, DeVree
NT: 1 - Wilfork
DE: 4 - Warren, Seymour, Green, Smith
OLB: 4 - Vrabel, Thomas, Redd, Crabel
ILB: 4 - Bruschi, Guyton, Mayo, Ruud
CB: 6 - Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, Spann
S: 2 - Ventrone (ERFA), Meriweather,
LS: 0
P: 0
K: 1 - Gostkowski


3) The Patriots review how the team did in certain aspects of the game looking for areas of improvement

4) The Patriots look at the importance of each position in terms of the aspect of the game.

They review all this information and set the weight of the need category based on it. From past chats by BB, once this weight of the need is set, they don't generally change it once its set. The question is, when do they finalize it. My feeling is that they do so at the end of March. But that is just a guess.

Again, this is just one part of the drafting equation.

William Moore Missouri is my first rounder if he falls to 24.

 

[patchick]

Here is me updating my list slightly..

1) Defensive End
2) Offensive Guard
3) Nose Tackle
4) Long Snapper
5) Safety - SS to Tweener
6) Pass-Rushing OLB
7) ILB
8) Cornerback
9) Punter
10) Offensive Tackle
11) Tight End
12) Center
13) Running back
14) Wide Receiver

Again, remember, this list of needs is just ONE part of the Best Value equation that is used by the Pats in the draft.

DB, I understand that this is a list of "pure needs," not draft priorities. That being said, I'm having trouble making sense of it. E.g., you place DE at #1 despite the presence of Warren, Seymour and Green on the 2009 roster, which must mean that you're taking 2010 free agency into account. Yet TE is down at #11...even though Watson and Thomas are both FAs in 2010, leaving the position flat empty. It doesn't seem to add up.

Maybe it would help the whole exercise to rank the needs for individual players, as opposed to a general position ranking? It's kind of meaningless to compare the need for, say, 2-3 safeties to 1 punter. (How many of the safeties are more important than the punter? Just the first, or all 3?)

 

[billdog3484]

all i know is i hope that when we are up, there is a damn good football player that we draft. i really dont care what position that player is.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I can guarantee you that I am not crazy and that my list of priorities are based much on how this team has been run than anything you've provided. Also, the Patriots have passed on "sack specialists" in the past because they haven't fit the system. Its because of the type of 3-4 2 GAP defense the Patriots play. If you go and look through the drafts, the Patriots haven't bothered with them. And they've been there.

As for Colvin and Thomas, you don't know what you are talking about. Neither was a PURE sack artist. And, since you brought up Thomas, how long did it take him to earn a starting position? Don't know? How about 3 years. Colvin was very similar. So, unless the Pats go with a veteran, no one they draft is going to come in right away and make an impact at the OLB position.

That is why BB doesn't draft them high. Its also why he has opened his pocketbook for high priced FAs at this one position. Almost nowhere else has he done so. (Except WR) He wants to take an athletic, third rounder and spend three years grooming him rather then use a first, and sometimes he 'd rather pay than wait. If the third round three-year project doesn't produce, it doesn't hurt the Team as much as first round bust.

 

[Jimke]

not picking on the list. but Cornerback has to be higher. Wilhite and Wheatley have shown improvement but Wheatley and his wrist issue and Wilhite will be a solid nickel. I think we need to draft someone not necessarily in the first two rounds but maybe a third rounder such as Fryar out of western michigan.

I agree that cornerback has to be one of the priorities for 2009. The

trouble is that Armageddon occurs for the Patriots after the 2009 season.

Three starting offensive linemen and two starting defensive linemen have

their contracts expire after the 2009 season. If the CBA is not renewed,

the Patriots catch a break because free agency rules change and Mankins

and Kazur are RFAs instead of UFAs. First day picks will be needed to

refurbish the offensive and defensive lines which is why these positions

are on top of the priority list. The Patriots task would be simplified if

they could extend a couple of these linemen. My question is whether the

Patriots can afford to franchise Matt Cassel and also re-sign Mankins or

Wilfork?

 

[DaBruinz]

DB, I understand that this is a list of "pure needs," not draft priorities. That being said, I'm having trouble making sense of it. E.g., you place DE at #1 despite the presence of Warren, Seymour and Green on the 2009 roster, which must mean that you're taking 2010 free agency into account. Yet TE is down at #11...even though Watson and Thomas are both FAs in 2010, leaving the position flat empty. It doesn't seem to add up.

Maybe it would help the whole exercise to rank the needs for individual players, as opposed to a general position ranking? It's kind of meaningless to compare the need for, say, 2-3 safeties to 1 punter. (How many of the safeties are more important than the punter? Just the first, or all 3?)

Patchick - Its not a list of "pure need" Its where I believe the weight of the need will be for the upcoming off-season and when the Pats are rating their players and the players they are looking to bring in.

One of the things I factored into weighing each of the positions was also importance to the team, be it offense or defense. In all honesty, the TE has become more of an afterthought. Its used in the running game, but they could easily line up an O-linemen like they've been doing to run it. Also, the position wouldn't be flat empty because of Tyson DeVree. That's why its on the list while a position like Kicker and QB are not.

DE on the other hand, is right up there and one of the keys to ensuring this defense works. With Wright being a UFA this year and Seymour, Green and Smith being ones next year, that makes it more of a priority for this team. And, I do expect the list to change depending on what the Pats do between now and free agency and during the 1st 3 weeks of free agency.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree that cornerback has to be one of the priorities for 2009. The

trouble is that Armageddon occurs for the Patriots after the 2009 season.

Three starting offensive linemen and two starting defensive linemen have

their contracts expire after the 2009 season. If the CBA is not renewed,

the Patriots catch a break because free agency rules change and Mankins

and Kazur are RFAs instead of UFAs. First day picks will be needed to

refurbish the offensive and defensive lines which is why these positions

are on top of the priority list. The Patriots task would be simplified if

they could extend a couple of these linemen. My question is whether the

Patriots can afford to franchise Matt Cassel and also re-sign Mankins or

Wilfork?

Armageddon occurs for the entire LEAGUE after 2009. In fact, I have a hunch that the owners could be pre-emptive and threaten to lock out the players in 2009 if they don't have a new CBA in place.

As I mentioned in another thread, if 2010 is uncapped, the Pats really don't have many worries because they can slap RFA tags on their players and sign whomever they need to fill out their roster. A new CBA will allow them to extend players during the 2009 season to ensure that there isn't an armageddon.

Of Kaczur, Light, Mankins and Neal, I see Mankins being the ONLY MUST re-sign. I think that Light will sign a 2-3 year deal without issue, though Lavoir has proven, in my eyes, to be as capable as Light and he could, very well be, the Pats starting LT in the near future.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Of Kaczur, Light, Mankins and Neal, I see Mankins being the ONLY MUST re-sign. I think that Light will sign a 2-3 year deal without issue, though Lavoir has proven, in my eyes, to be as capable as Light and he could, very well be, the Pats starting LT in the near future.

LeVoir played very well as a reserve OT, but I'd say you're a bit premature to say he's as capable as Light - let's get him some more game reps against the Freeneys and Merrimans before making that assessment. I do like where the Pats are with two starters and two solid reserves (LeVoir, O'Callaghan) returning.

 

[ayjackson]

I have a question about possible DE's to succeed Sey in 2010....how do Jackson and Suh project as 3-4 ends in your minds?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I have a question about possible DE's to succeed Sey in 2010....how do Jackson and Suh project as 3-4 ends in your minds?

Jackson looks like a good candidate and may be there in the second. I don't see the need to replace Seymour, I expect BB to re-sign him.

 

[DaBruinz]

Jackson looks like a good candidate and may be there in the second. I don't see the need to replace Seymour, I expect BB to re-sign him.

Box - I started an entirely new thread for talk about conversion projects..

 

[WhiZa]

William Moore Missouri is my first rounder if he falls to 24.

I'm with ya. Also Rashad Johnson from Alabama. They are a lot alike, and there's also the bama connection.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm with ya. Also Rashad Johnson from Alabama. They are a lot alike, and there's also the bama connection.

I can see Will Moore becoming the next Rodney back there. And teamed with Meriweather, they'd be a devestating force..

*fights his instincts* No... *struggle* Moore *fight* will *punch* not *slam* become* POW* binkie *smash* ... *TBC*

 

[WhiZa]

Let's all promise no binkies until after the combine