Pats interested in Hartwell [merged]

[DaBruinz]

I don't think Izzo, Mays, Woods, or Alexander have earned roster spots yet. In fact, I think it's quite likely that no more than two of the above will make the final 53 man roster.

I do not believe that Bellichick was satisfied with the butt-kicking his LB corps took in the AFC championship game. Usually, when Belichick isn't satisfied, changes are made.

While its a given that BB wasn't satisfied with the butt-kicking that the LB corps took int he AFC Championship game, when have you known him to throw the baby out with the bath water. Woods made the team out of training camp and was a very good the entire season. Mays, you could be right. Mays has several special teams penalties that hurt the team.

I don't believe that the Pats would re-sign Izzo to a 2 year deal only to cut him.

And, as I said, I don't believe Alexander will be more than a special teams player. However, even at 10 players, that only leaves 3 slots if you put Mays' slot up. However, I don't see the Pats using 2 more slots on vet players. I think it will be either Seau or Hartwell, but not both.

 

[pats1]

I don't believe that the Pats would re-sign Izzo to a 2 year deal only to cut him.

FWIW, it was only a 1-year deal:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/03/izzos_deal.html

 

[DaBruinz]

FWIW, it was only a 1-year deal:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/03/izzos_deal.html

I stand corrected. Hmm.. guess that means he will have to earn a spot, though, as a special teams captain, he probably has a leg up on Alexander Mays and Woods.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The Pats have Thomas, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Izzo, Mays, Woods, and Alexander. They usually carry 9-10 lbs. There isn't enough room for them to add BOTH Seau and Hartwell AND draft a young LB like Harris, DeOssie or Bradley.

I think that I would rather have 2 young LBs who are closer to having the talent to start than 2 vets who are inhibiting the growth of youngsters.

I still don't see Alexander as being anything more than a special teamer and a replacement for Davis.

Thomas, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Izzo (SIGNED already, dudes,) Seau, Hartwell, [DeOssie/Harris/Bradley, pick one], [Mays, Woods, Alexander, pick two.]

That makes ten. I don't really see the issue, other than the possibility that Mays, Woods, or Alexander doesn't make the cut. Are all three better prospects than I am thinking? Though I loved Woods, Alexander only showed he could tackle a guy once he caught the ball... Mays? Someone would have to refresh my memory.

Are all three of those guys better than the 1/2-time very good player Junior is now? Or can one go? And if we get Edwards through a trade... <Gasp!>... are two of those three expendable, if they lose the competition in camp?

PFnV

 

[DaBruinz]

Thomas, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Izzo (SIGNED already, dudes,) Seau, Hartwell, [DeOssie/Harris/Bradley, pick one], [Mays, Woods, Alexander, pick two.]

That makes ten. I don't really see the issue, other than the possibility that Mays, Woods, or Alexander doesn't make the cut. Are all three better prospects than I am thinking? Though I loved Woods, Alexander only showed he could tackle a guy once he caught the ball... Mays? Someone would have to refresh my memory.

Are all three of those guys better than the 1/2-time very good player Junior is now? Or can one go? And if we get Edwards through a trade... <Gasp!>... are two of those three expendable, if they lose the competition in camp?

PFnV

OK. I think only bringing in ONE young LB would be a major mistake. Especially with the ages of Vrabel, Colvin, and Bruschi.

Now, if the Pats traded for Donnie Edwards, then that gives them a solid back-up to A.D. in terms of someone to cover TEs and RBs. But they would still be lacking the run stuffing LB that Seau brings. Hartwell could be that way as well.

Again, I am looking at BIG PICTURE which includes thinking about special teams. Woods and Alexander are damn good there. They are part of the reason our returns were so good on both kicks and punts. I don't see Donnie Edwards or Junior Seau playing on special teams.

The Pats use a LOT of LBs on special teams. Its why they like to carry 9-10 LBs.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Mays goes bye-bye. Troy plays backup corner. Problem solved.

 

[FilPats]

Seau played very well last season. I'd like him back.

The problem is that he's good for only a limited number of snaps per season, in two ways:

1. Durability
2. Speed -- I suspect that he has adequate pass coverage speed only when lightly used.

Maybe, we can use Seau sparingly like Bob Sanders, just enough to maintain his fitness and sharpness, and reserve him for the playoffs. I recall the first game Bob Sanders played last season was against the Pats and then he was on IR? for a few games afterwards and then came back strongly in the playoffs. Go Pats:rocker:

 

[The 12th Man]

OK. I think only bringing in ONE young LB would be a major mistake. Especially with the ages of Vrabel, Colvin, and Bruschi.

Now, if the Pats traded for Donnie Edwards, then that gives them a solid back-up to A.D. in terms of someone to cover TEs and RBs. But they would still be lacking the run stuffing LB that Seau brings. Hartwell could be that way as well.

Again, I am looking at BIG PICTURE which includes thinking about special teams. Woods and Alexander are damn good there. They are part of the reason our returns were so good on both kicks and punts. I don't see Donnie Edwards or Junior Seau playing on special teams.

The Pats use a LOT of LBs on special teams. Its why they like to carry 9-10 LBs.

I believe Donnie Edwards is a free agent now after being released by San Diego. Problem is, there is no interest in him because his role would be similar to Seau's and it wouldn't make sense to sign another old LB if the other already knows the system well.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm cool with them picking up Hartwell lots of upside and he won't be able to command a whole lot of cash. So it is very likely that the contract would heavily favor the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

I believe Donnie Edwards is a free agent now after being released by San Diego. Problem is, there is no interest in him because his role would be similar to Seau's and it wouldn't make sense to sign another old LB if the other already knows the system well.

This is erroneous. The role that Edwards would play is significantly different than the role that Seau would play. Seau is a 1st/ 2nd down run stopper. Edwards is a 2nd/3rd down LB who covers TEs and RBs out of the backfield.

 

[The 12th Man]

This is erroneous. The role that Edwards would play is significantly different than the role that Seau would play. Seau is a 1st/ 2nd down run stopper. Edwards is a 2nd/3rd down LB who covers TEs and RBs out of the backfield.

By similar role, I actually meant playing only one fase (either run or pass) not a 3 down LB. I guess it would just come down to wanting a run stopper or a cover LB, but I think run defense is where it starts.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I believe Donnie Edwards is a free agent now after being released by San Diego. Problem is, there is no interest in him because his role would be similar to Seau's and it wouldn't make sense to sign another old LB if the other already knows the system well.

I wasn't aware that San Diego had released Donnie Edwards. When did that happen?

 

[The 12th Man]

I wasn't aware that San Diego had released Donnie Edwards. When did that happen?

Yeah, he's been a free agent for about a week, I think. Everyone was just too caught up with the Thomas signing and others.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, he's been a free agent for about a week, I think. Everyone was just too caught up with the Thomas signing and others.

Could you provide a link because I haven't seen it either?

 

[The 12th Man]

Could you provide a link because I haven't seen it either?

How's this, there is already interest from the Giants I guess, from KFFL:

Giants | Team showing interest in Edwards
Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:09:25 -0800

Paul Schwartz, of the New York Post, reports the New York Giants have shown some interest in free agent LB Donnie Edwards (Chargers).

 

[Gumby]

One key comparison stat:

Hartwell Age: 29
Edwards Age: 34
Seau Age: 38

On that alone I would be looking for Hartwell as a better signing.


As far as folks saying don't sign him becausee we only have x number of spaces on the FINAL ROSTER.


Hello; it is not even pre-season. If all he ends up being is training camp competition - SO WHAT. Sign him up. He was a solid player once and if he is over his injuries he can play for us on the cheap and drop 5 years off the average age of the LB corps. If he isn't over his injuries enough to play at a high level than at least he is there to keep pushing Pierre Woods and the other 2nd tier wanna-bes.

CAMP COMPETITION IS A VERY GOOD THING.

 

[pats63]

I heard that KC is interested in Edwards.....Hartwell you real think he can pass a PHYSICAL Lets see what's he got in TC...What about Spikes?????

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Donnie Edwards might end up in Seattle, but Hartwell would be a nice pickup

 

[Gon_Trevil]

I'm not sure. Some guys never get back to being the same player after big injuries, and this guy had both knees messed up. He may be 29, but his injury history suggests he doesn't have much left in the tank (no more than 34 year old Edwards, for example).

 

[Pats726]

Wasn't there a LOT of Hartwell talk 2 years ago when he was a FA??? When Bruschi was on the mend...and...did I miss something..or?? There was all this talk and the Pats never called him...so what is changed now?? 2 more years?? injuries?? maybe a lesser salary?? If they didn't even call him then..why now?? Just curious about this..although then..at that point TJ was still looked at as the run stuffer..(until TC...a few months later)