Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[Deus Irae]

I didn't use starting as a qualifier. Some guys played and were liabilities. Most notably Jones and Wilhite.

The numbers aren't terribly relevant in any case. If you want to go back an find how many quality starters come out of the 4th round, you're welcome to do the research. It's well below 50%, I think most can agree on that without looking through draft classes. There's a much greater than 50% chance that a 26-yo proven commodity is going be a quality starter than anyone we draft in the 4th round.

I know what you used. You were wrong. just admit it and move on. If you can't do that, just move on. You're now arguing against concessions you've already made.

 

[DocHoliday]

Seriously though, does anyone have any thoughts on Arrington?

Bill keeping him over Moore, when they're roughly statistically the same and his insistence on playing him suggests it's not just an issue of regression.

Thoughts?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Is anyone else concerned that the Patriots brought in an all-around bad guy? Ochocinco, Moss, Haynesworth, Dillon- the issues with these guys were mild compared to Talib. Talib is nearing Pacman Jones territory here.

Just in terms of "winning at all costs", I hope that the franchise does not begin to dig up the scum of the earth because they are desperate. Frankly, when the Jets beat us in 2010, I felt the sting was much less because we had a great group of guys while they were infested with real-life dirt bags like Cromartie, Holmes, and Edwards. I think there is a difference between locker room cancers and guys that show up in the headlines for violence and overall danger to society.

I'm planning to make my 1.5 year old daughter a big Patriots fan, and whether they win or lose, you can always be proud to be a fan of Mr. Kraft's franchise. I really don't want to be explaining to her why one of her favorite players assaulted his wife, got a DUI, fired a gun at someone, or punched a cab driver in the head.

I realize that our perception of a lot of these player is skewed, and in reality most of them are not saints, but I think the Talib signing is out of character. This isn't like Alfonzo Dennard where a kid makes a mistake... this is a 26-year old violent criminal who has been given everything he needs to succeed but is a rotten person. I feel like we just made a deal with the devil.

Who is with me???

 

[randomk1]

If Aquib Talib is half the player we think he is...he automatically puts our Defense over the Top. Our Defense is a Good CB away.

Over the top? A good CB away from what exactly?

We aren't getting Revis here and there are still plenty of issues on D. Let them play a game first.

 

[randomk1]

Seriously though, does anyone have any thoughts on Arrington?

Bill keeping him over Moore, when they're roughly statistically the same and his insistence on playing him suggests it's not just an issue of regression.

Thoughts?

Maybe Moore was hurt.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bedard's statement doesn't make sense based upon the New England Patriots off-season acquisitions. The New England Patriots signed safety Steven Gregory in unrestricted free agency and selected safety Tavon Wilson in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft.

Actually, it makes plenty of sense. Wilson is a guy they drafted to take over NEXT year from Chung. You have Gregory who can play both positions and the "STAR" position in the nickle. You have McCourty as the other Safety (remembering that the Pats like to play left safety and right safety instead of Free/Strong).

Moving McCourty back there gives the Pats depth and versatility. Especially with the knowledge that Chung can't seem to stay healthy. The problem was that no one stepped up at the CB position during TC, Arrington took some major steps backwards, Dowling suffered a major injury and Gregory also went down. Which all led to the Pats being thin there.

 

[Dago]

It's really only 2/16 if you are considering talent level compared to Talib. Samuel and Hernandez are the only ones in Talib's class. Green and to a lesser extent Sanders are serviceable backups. Gostkowski is a kicker, so umm yeah. The rest are pretty much completely useless.

the only problem is that we acquired a player for 7+Postseason games....
if we have extension we locked a great thing

 

[Double TE]

the only problem is that we acquired a player for 7+Postseason games....
if we have extension we locked a great thing

Lets just see how he does. A 4th rounder based on their past drafting history of 4th rounders is not a steep price to pay. Plus I like having a bit of attitude in the backfield.

 

[DaBruinz]

2013 New England Patriots wide receivers:

WR1: Welker
WR2: Lloyd
WR3: Gaffney
WR4: Salas
WR5: Slater

Stick a fork in Deion Branch, he is done. Thru eight games of the 2012 NFL Season, the "Edelman experiment" has failed.

I agree about Branch. I disagree with you on Gaffney and on Edelman.

Edelman, in the 5 games he's played and the fact that he's the 5th option behind Welker, Hernandez, Gronkowski, and Lloyd has 13 receptions for 100 yards and a TD. He's 6th on the team in receptions because Woodhead has 19 out of the backfield.

Considering the talent ahead of him, would you REALLY expect Edelman to have more catches?

I think it's safer to say that McDaniels experimenting the way he has is a bigger failure than Edelman.

 

[DaBruinz]

So you would rather start Edelman over Welker.

Okay.

Wow.. if that isn't a case of 1+1 = 3 I don't know what is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

the only problem is that we acquired a player for 7+Postseason games....
if we have extension we locked a great thing

...only if that player stays on the straight and narrow and performs at a high level after he receives an extension.

 

[DaBruinz]

where do you see the indication of shifting to a true 34 defense?

BB has run the 4-3 in New England only when he hasn't had the talent in the front 7 to run the 3-4.

In 2000, he ran the 4-3 because the team was a mess.
In 2001, he ran the 4-3 because he didn't have a true NT.
In 2002, he tried to run the 3-4 with Steve Martin as the NT and it was a failure.
In 2003, he ran the 3-4 with Washington at NT
From 2004, the 3-4 was the base with Traylor and Wilfork at NT
2005-2010 was the 3-4 with Wilfork at NT.
In 2011, they went to the hybrid 3-4/4-3 because they didn't have a 3-4 RDE.
In 2012, they are running the 4-3 base with some 3-4 throw in because they don't have anyone capable of being a 3-4 RDE.

In the 3-4, you'd see Jones, Bequette, and Ninkovich rotating at OLB. You'd have Spikes, Mayo and Fletcher at ILB. Hightower would go between both ILB and OLB.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well you forget to mention the part where we don't have to go through 3 years of 'growing pains' to figure out whether or not we have a player on our hands. Also imo, having 1 year left on Talib's contract is an advantage. We can cut ties with him next year if he doesn't work out. We didn't have to pay him his initial bonus money or guaranteed money.

If Talib turns out to be a 'good fit'. Then he will have earned his payraise and new contract from us. Of course he is going to command more salary then, but I expect the Pats to be smart and put in some escalators based on play time and reachable incentives.

As for the success rate of 4th round picks, those are the picks from 128-160 and according to the following chart, the bust rate for such picks varies from about 70-80%. Considering that the Pats usually pick near the end of the round, I would venture that the bust percentage chance for that pick is probably going to be closer to the 80% side of the spectrum.

So that means a 1 in 5 chance of getting a non-bust starting player. Note they say not a bust, that doesn't guarantee even a good player or a star player. We know pretty much what we are getting in Talib. A 1st round talent, but a character risk. I think if you play the odds. The gamble is favorable considering the chip that we gave up.

You're leaving out the part where he's only under contract for half a season. It isn't the same as using a draft pick on a player who will be under your control at a reasonable salary for 4 years.

The teams that manager their caps best do so by having a lot of contributors on their rookie contracts. Once a team stops getting that, it gets top-heavy and basically becomes the Jets. This move, in of itself, obviously won't do that to the Patriots, but there's 2 ways that this can go:

1) Talib leaves after the season. The pick was traded for a rental, definitely not the same as drafting a guy
2) Talib is re-signed after the season at a market rate that far exceeds a rookie deal salary. Not the same as drafting a guy.

I'm cautiously hopeful about the trade itself, but to pretend that the Pats basically just drafted Talib with a 4th round pick isn't correct at all.

 

[DaBruinz]

Danny Woodhead has twice the receiving yards of Julian Edelman.

2012 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

You seriously expect Julian Edelman to be a starting wide receiver for the New England Patriots?

Woodhead had 57 more yards on 2 more catches than Hernandez. Guess that means that Hernandez sucks too.. based on how YOU state things.

Seriously. Do you ever stop to think before you post stuff like this? You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[DaBruinz]

Then don't reply to my "Edelman experiment" comment.

Your "Edelman experiment" comment was stupid. He's started all of 1 game and he's been the #3 WR otherwise.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB has run the 4-3 in New England only when he hasn't had the talent in the front 7 to run the 3-4.

In 2000, he ran the 4-3 because the team was a mess.
In 2001, he ran the 4-3 because he didn't have a true NT.
In 2002, he tried to run the 3-4 with Steve Martin as the NT and it was a failure.
In 2003, he ran the 3-4 with Washington and Wilfork at NT
From 2004-2010, the 3-4 was the base with Wilfork at NT
In 2011, they went to the hybrid 3-4/4-3 because they didn't have a 3-4 RDE.
In 2012, they are running the 4-3 base with some 3-4 throw in because they don't have anyone capable of being a 3-4 RDE.

In the 3-4, you'd see Jones, Bequette, and Ninkovich rotating at OLB. You'd have Spikes, Mayo and Fletcher at ILB. Hightower would go between both ILB and OLB.

Wilfork wasn't on the 03 team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Edelman will be an unrestricted free agent. As for Greg Salas, it's time for the New England Patriots to develop a wide receiver.

Offensive snaps: Ridley closes deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Furthermore, Deion Branch played more offensive snaps than Julian Edelman against the St Louis Rams. Seems like Edelman is slipping further down the wide receiver depth chart.

Newsflash for you. Edleman is recovering from a wrist injury..

 

[Deus Irae]

Wilfork wasn't on the 03 team.

2003 was Washington
2004 was Traylor and Wilfork

 

[goheels22002]

As for the success rate of 4th round picks, those are the picks from 128-160 and according to the following chart, the bust rate for such picks varies from about 70-80%. Considering that the Pats usually pick near the end of the round, I would venture that the bust percentage chance for that pick is probably going to be closer to the 80% side of the spectrum.

So that means a 1 in 5 chance of getting a non-bust player.

Weird way of saying that there is an 80% chance that this guy is a solid NFL corner, or better.

 

[DaBruinz]

Julian Edelman played in the New York Jets game.

And that week, he was on the Injury Report with a wrist/hand issue.

How many years are the New England Patriots willing to invest to develop a wide receiver? The New England Patriots cut Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price after two seasons.

Guess you missed some differences. Edelman is in his 4th year, EVER, playing receiver. And he's shown improvement every year. Jackson, Tate and Price all had numerous years of PRIOR experience and couldn't adjust.