Pats file complaint against the Colts

[Mike the Brit]

Ya I heard he got it from Vladimir Putin.

Excellent! Polian and Putin in a room together -- now there would be a sight!

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeah I noticed the station carrying his show is WISH.

What happened, WINE got kicked off the air?

PFnV

 

[Miguel]

The Pats felt (IMHO, rightly so) that he's a top 17-25 WR.

Their first offer would have made Branch the 17th highest paid WR so IMO, it appears that the Pats rated Branch higher than 17th. Because I seriously doubt that the Patriots' first offer would have been their best offer.

 

[QuiGon]

Their first offer would have made Branch the 17th highest paid WR so IMO, it appears that the Pats rated Branch higher than 17th. Because I seriously doubt that the Patriots' first offer would have been their best offer.

Come on, Miguel... you can't compare a contract offer for Deion Branch to other receivers' contracts since a lot of them could have been signed 2, 3, 4 years ago. Or some could still be playing under their rookie contracts. Accoriding to your logic, the Pats rank Branch higher than Larry Fitzgerald; do you really think that's the case...?

If every WR in the NFL was declared a free agent and they all came to Foxborough looking for a job, do you think their initial offer to Branch would be 17th in terms of dollar values among them all...?

 

[shmessy]

Their first offer would have made Branch the 17th highest paid WR so IMO, it appears that the Pats rated Branch higher than 17th. Because I seriously doubt that the Patriots' first offer would have been their best offer.

So, the natural question would be, do you feel the Patriots made too low an offer and that Branch is a better than a 17th WR? Or was Branch, who refused to counter-offer, just taking what was out there in outlandish offers from the Jets and Seahawks.

A lot of people have blamed the Patriots front office in all this, I respect your opinion and don't remember what your take on it was.

 

[Miguel]

So, the natural question would be, do you feel the Patriots made too low an offer and that Branch is a better than a 17th WR? Or was Branch, who refused to counter-offer, just taking what was out there in outlandish offers from the Jets and Seahawks.

A lot of people have blamed the Patriots front office in all this, I respect your opinion and don't remember what your take on it was.

On 9/14 I wrote in another thread.
"In the NFL business and in the business of the NFL money talks the loudest. The Patriots' incredibly fair first offer tells me all I need to know how much the architects of the Patriots' dynasty valued Branch. IMO, they thought very highly of Branch. Even though he never had more than 1000 yards in a season. Never had more than 5 TDs in a season. Only played all 16 games once. Blah, Blah. If those things were so important to BB and Pioli, why make him such a great first offer???

The Patriots are not about what a player can't do in their system. The Patriots are about what a player can do in their system."

I still stand by those words.

 

[shmessy]

On 9/14 I wrote in another thread.
"In the NFL business and in the business of the NFL money talks the loudest. The Patriots' incredibly fair first offer tells me all I need to know how much the architects of the Patriots' dynasty valued Branch. IMO, they thought very highly of Branch. Even though he never had more than 1000 yards in a season. Never had more than 5 TDs in a season. Only played all 16 games once. Blah, Blah. If those things were so important to BB and Pioli, why make him such a great first offer???

The Patriots are not about what a player can't do in their system. The Patriots are about what a player can do in their system."

I still stand by those words.

Thank you.

I certainly can't understand the folks who feel that the Patriots could have done anything else than what they did. Especially since Branch and Chayut never counter-offered what was an incredibly fair first offer.

 

[Miguel]

Come on, Miguel... you can't compare a contract offer for Deion Branch to other receivers' contracts since a lot of them could have been signed 2, 3, 4 years ago.

I can and I will Just as others do on this board.

Or some could still be playing under their rookie contracts. Accoriding to your logic, the Pats rank Branch higher than Larry Fitzgerald; do you really think that's the case...?

I seriously doubt that Fitzgerald's contract now has a APY of less than $4.87375 million. Rod Smith's APY is tied for 14th. If I were going to sign a wideout this year to a long-term deal, it would be Branch, not Rod Smith.

If every WR in the NFL was declared a free agent and they all came to Foxborough looking for a job, do you think their initial offer to Branch would be 17th in terms of dollar values among them all...?

Yes, I do. I do not think that there are 17 wideouts in the NFL better suited for the Patriots' system that would also make sense to sign to a long-term deal (2006 through 2009). The best long-term deal for the Patriots is one that the player plays all of the years in the contract.

If the Patriots did not value Branch so highly, why did their 1st offer average $4.87375 million over the years 2006 through 2009, $6.25 million over the years 2007 through 2009 if one includes the 2006 signing bonus in the equation.

FWIW - In the years 2002 through 2005 only 7 wideouts (Harrison, Muhammad, Owens, Coles, Rod Smith, Toomer, and Randy Moss) made more than the 19.495 million that the Patriots were willing to pay Branch for the years 2006 through 2009 in their 1st offer.

 

[workhorse]

Yeah I noticed the station carrying his show is WISH.

What happened, WINE got kicked off the air?

PFnV

Everyone was always drunk on air.

 

[QuiGon]

I can and I will Just as others do on this board.

Touche.

I seriously doubt that Fitzgerald's contract now has a APY of less than $4.87375 million. Rod Smith's APY is tied for 14th. If I were going to sign a wideout this year to a long-term deal, it would be Branch, not Rod Smith.

Yes that was a bad example and I apologize - but I stand by the point that just because a receiver makes less than what NE offered Branch doesn't necessarily logically follow that the Pats would value Branch over that particular receiver. If I had time (and wasn't so lazy) I'd do some research and find a few such examples, but since I am not doing that I will just have to state my opinion and leave it at that...

Yes, I do. I do not think that there are 17 wideouts in the NFL better suited for the Patriots' system that would also make sense to sign to a long-term deal (2006 through 2009). The best long-term deal for the Patriots is one that the player plays all of the years in the contract.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this.

If the Patriots did not value Branch so highly, why did their 1st offer average $4.87375 million over the years 2006 through 2009, $6.25 million over the years 2007 through 2009 if one includes the 2006 signing bonus in the equation.

I never said the pats didn't value Branch, just that you cannot correlate the fact they offered him #17-money, therefore they view him as the #17 WR in the league. But, with all due respect, it's tough to talk about how highly the Pats valued him considering he's now wearing a Seahawks jersey.

FWIW - In the years 2002 through 2005 only 7 wideouts (Harrison, Muhammad, Owens, Coles, Rod Smith, Toomer, and Randy Moss) made more than the 19.495 million that the Patriots were willing to pay Branch for the years 2006 through 2009 in their 1st offer.

That's comparing apples and oranges. You want to compare Deion Branch's salary of 2006-2009 to the rest of the league's WR's of 2002-2005...? Come on... You of all people should know the average salary cap of the past 4 years will be what...? Tens of millions less than the projected average salary cap of the next 4 years...?

 

[DaBruinz]

Come off it it. Honestly, really honestly, step away from the Kool-aid and tell the truth. Do you think the Patriot's consider Polian a threat to the safety of their employees?

So, in your opinion, The Patriots should over-look the fact that Polian shouted "BREAK HIS LEG!" last year when Flutie was on the field against the Colts? They should also over-look that Polian has assaulted and employee of another team. Sorry, but I disagree.

or maybe, just maybe, they did it to tweak him, which is fine the guy is a jerk.

The fact that its an added bonus doesn't change anything.

So it was a good idea to let Branch go seek a trade?
they gave up a lot of leverage when then let him set his own value on the market. I didn't say the blame was all the Patriots but it was unneccessary to let him seek a trade, They could have let him rot on the bench for 10 weeks. Enough Branch talk please.

Yes, it was a very good idea to allow Branch to seek a trade. I feel very comfortable saying that I believe the Patriots already KNEW what they would get for Branch before they allowed him to "seek a trade." What they did was put him in the position of being proven wrong. No one threw Reggie Wayne money at him the way he thought. The deal the Patriots offered him was one where they treated him like the other stars on the Patriots team. H

And no, they couldn't leave Branch to rot on the bench. You don't leave an infected cut to fester. You deal with it immediately. And that is what the Pats did. And they did it in a way that benefitted them. Branch looks foolish for thinking that he is better than Brady, Seymour or Koppen.

IMO the move to file a complaint against Polian is a self-created distraction. I would rather have the Patriots thinking about football than any of this nonsense.

You are entitled to your opinions. No one said otherwise. However, I think you are fooling yourself if you think that this will have ANY affect on the Patriots players or even the coaching staff. BB probably put this in the very capable hands of Pioli and Kraft and that was the end of it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok, I guess I am not off the hook. If possible lets agree to disagree.

IMO the Patriots are not as strong of a team without Branch. If the Pats did nothing, they would have Branch back in 4 weeks and would be in a better position to compete for a championship. Had both sides been able to reach a suitable contract the Patriots would be a better team this year and in future years. By letting him go out and set the market they lost some leverage, and did very well to get a first round pick. The FO is excellent but not perfect.

Here is the problem with your line of thinking. Branch did NOT want to be back. You keep saying about contract talks, but Branch and his agent REFUSED to talk. They never once sent a counter-off to the Patriots. Period. All they sent was an ultimatum.

This idea that the Pats lost leverage is some figment of your imagination. The Patriots had until week 6 to get Branch traded or they would have been left with nothing because Branch would have come back and done NOTHING.