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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know this sounds arrogant, but I swear by the time we've scored twice it doesn't feel like I'm watching a CONTEST, but watching to see how badly the Pats will blow out the opponent.
    ####Just want to add for posterity, before the Charger game started, I said to my son, "This could become the best team ever"

    Which is better our offense or our defense?

    The defense was FANTASTIC last night. That is a very good offense, and they were totally shut down. 1 drive after a turnover, then some garbage time stat padding yards;, and that was it.
    I loved the defensive gameplan, but the key was TACKLING. We tackled very, very well. In fact, the only times we had trouble tackling resulted in the TD and a FG drive.

    I'm beginning to be able to know based on the play, and the throw that Moss is the target before he even comes into the picture.
    I'm glad we finally have the slant in our playbook. I love watching Moss beat the defender to the spot. I always wondered why we ran fewer slants than any team in the NFL. We dont any more, and almost all go to Moss.

    R Gay had a good game, and is an excellent tackler. Wilson looked good.
    Incredible to me that we face a team with TJ and Johnson, and can barely remember the ball going near Hobbs or Samuel.

    Sammy Morris is a very good backup RB.

    Our OL is playing very well. As dangerous as our passing game is, they face tremendous heat. This isn't like protecting a QB in a dink and dunk WCO. Most teams believe they must hit Brady to stop us, and Brady rarely gets hit, even when Ds are focussed on blitzing and rushing.

    It was fun to watch about a quarter of old-fashion 'we are running, try to stop us' football, but with Moss, stallworth, Welker and Brady, its more to see us throwing. (But I still agree with the gameplan)

    We have so much talent on defense that we can dominate a great offense like the Bengals and youdont even notice some of our good players. In fact, last night it seemed as if plays were almost spread equally among 11 guys.

    I still will feel undefeated is possible until I see something change.
     
  2. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It did feel like a practice not a real game, nice post.

    Random observations
    • Moss - I say this every week but it worth repeating, I had no idea how good this guy was. His hands are sick. Even when he is covered he makes plays.
    • Brady - usual
    • O Line - the usual
    • LBs - Bruschi has lost a step but used his savvy to make a few nice plays. The addition of Thomas shows how versatility creates depth. Thomas moved over to ROLB, the rest of the LBs stay in their natural positions. The past two seasons when an injury came up all 4 LB spots were shifted around.
    • Secondary - Sanders missed a tackle on John son coming across the middle and the hand off between Samuel and Wilson on the Bengals TD was not very good. Asante let the WR go to Wilson, Wilson bit on the pump fake. Other than that great job by the secondary, lots of communication. With Rodney back, the unit has good depth.
    • Vrabel - Did he play the whole game with his shoulder pad out?
    • TJ - Good receiver but pretty much just a little baby, still doesn't get 'it'.
    • Sammy Morris - Again I was not thrilled with his preseason, he looks better every week.
    • Watson & Evans - Some very good blocks, especially on the TD.
    • Bengals - The only question is how they screw up their top 10 draft pick.
    • Merriweather - He is being brought along slowly, glad to see him get some action. He has only looked ok to me, seems a little unsure in coverage and a step behind. He can hit and tackle which are critical skills for a Safety. I saw some of the Titans game and watched a little bit of Griffin (Texas). Prior to the draft the trio of Merriweather, Nelson & Griffin were the next tier of Safeties behind Landry. I haven't seen Nelson but Griffin is noticeably faster than Merriweather.
    • Harrison - More quality depth with Sanders backing up Rodney or vice versa.
    • Seymour - Can't wait to see the big 3 (Ty, Sey and V) together on the field

    Another ho-hum victory..
     
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'll admit that the television I was watching last night was a little blurry because my main tv is out for repairs, but I didn't see the same secondary that a lot of other people apparently saw. I saw a secondary that had Samuel as its weakest link.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  4. jeffd

    jeffd On the Game Day Roster

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    Was it just me or did Mike Wright get alot more playing time than usual last night? And I'm pretty sure we stayed with 3 DL?
    Moss is a beast.
    Welker makes you think he can score every time he gets the ball.
    Stallworth showed some speed and YAC ability.
    Watson isn't the blocker Graham is but he does fine.
    Sammy Morris reminds me of Dillon. Not as fast or quick but ALWAYS falls forward.
    OL was great again. I love ya Matt Light, but you need help with the power rushers.
    Adalius Thomas was everywhere again. That dude is HUGE for a LB.
    Brushci I love the superman but it scares the crap out of me.
    Secondary was great. Good to see Gay back in the slot where he belongs. He's one of the top slot cover guys in the league. Samuel and Hobbs stuck with their guys and those two are tough. Hobbs is great at going after the ball.
    Speaking of Hobbs... he must have the green light from BB on returns because he doesn't even consider taking a knee and he's still in there.
    Merriweather can hit! Now he just has to learn to shut his mouth afterward.
    Genius move by Marvin Lewis to only carry 4 LB's into the game. Activate someone if you have to, you know BB would run every play every game if he could.
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I forgot to comment on Meriwhether. I like what I see. Every time he is on the field he ends up near the football. (Not because he's being picked on) I love his hustle, and his playing speed is very fast.
     
  6. jeffd

    jeffd On the Game Day Roster

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    Man you're tough to please. They made TJ and Johnson non-factors. We had a decent pass rush but not enough to make up for coverage. Secondary was great.
     
  7. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Nice post. Barring key injuries, you're right, this is history in the making. A perfect storm.

    What I like best is how they beat up on both sides of the LOS, so by the 4th qtr their opponent is cooked and they can run and sack at will. The games haven't been close in the 2nd half, so we haven't seen it, but it feels like if they were, that is when the Patriots would use their power and depth in the big guys to win close games.

    As it is, they have good ST's, they can run and pass, and stop the run and pass as well as anyone. The punter is the forgotten man and Seymour and Harrison have yet to play. They are still gearing up pieces of their offense, like Stallworth. They are still improving. They have great depth.

    Before the season my biggest concern was depth at RB. Hah! The Jets can have their Thomas Jones. The Pats have Sammy.
     
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not knocking Samuel. I just thought he was the weakest link in the chain last night, and not Meriweather. It was a response to cstjohn17 and his post. The team allowed fewer than 14 points and I'm saying that the CB who had a pick was the weakest player in the secondary for one game, nothing more.
     
  9. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is an excellent point and encouraging for our match-up with the NFL's other scary-good team.
     
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    I would disagree. I love Hobbs, but I think Samuel is still clearly the better player.

    Sanders has really impressed, too.
     
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A poster was critiquing Meriweather and I was responding to that. I was simply noting that I thought he was fine and that the weakest player in the secondary LAST NIGHT was Samuel. Next week, it could very well be someone else who's the weakest player in the secondary.
     
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Samuel has more skill. But its hard to not like Hobbs. He is all out effort, and gets more out of his ability than most would.
    He is also EXTREMELY consistent and reliable. I don't worry for a second that any team could put any WR up against him and pick on him all day.
     
  13. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It's possible BB may disagree with you. I believe I saw Hobbs on CJ tight for most of the game. They were probably double teaming him with a safety but still. Hobbs has been our best corner IMO for a couple of years now. Samuel has great instincts at jumping routes and getting the INT, but I think Hobbs has better technique and cover skills. You rarely ever see him get beat (aside from the occasional, and often poorly called, PI against him).
     
  14. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    With Bruschi and Seau together at ILB it seemed that their Watson had a bit more room to run on a couple of plays than we would have liked.

    That's my biggest nit on defense. Hobbs giving up 15 yards he shouldn't to a player as good as Chad Johnson? That happens.

    If Palmer weren't a great QB, our pass rush would have seemed utterly lethal. The few throws he did make were often under pressure.

    And I agree re the plays being totally different with Moss as target. E.g., on that perfect-pass TD, his eyes were locked on single-covered Moss all the way. It was simply a question of whether he'd make a perfect throw (automatic TD) or not (incompletion). I forget whether that was in the jumbo package where Moss is almost the only legitimate receiving target -- I think not -- but if not it might as well have been.
     
  15. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can they both be good?

    Hobbs is playing very well this year, having two full hands to use it making a big difference. I am sure he got an earful from BB about running that kick out of the end zone when the Pats already has a big lead.

    Samuel is starting to get his legs back and clearly has a knack for the big play.

    Gay is gaining confidence. I think he is even amazed that some fluke injury hasn't occurred.

    What I really like about the secondary is the communication. All the players are talking out there, recognizing formations and tendencies and pointing them out to each other. This is a very well coached unit and the players understand the system. It will be a shame if Samuel leaves, he fits the scheme like a glove.

    Weakest link - I am not sure we have to name one, but I would say Wilson.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  16. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    This is a good point and bodes well for Indy. Palmer did not have a bad game. He made some terrific throws and his receivers made some nice catches. The coverage took away much of the downfield threat.

    A lesser QB would have been sacked or thrown the ball away more often.

    Good practice for you-know-who, the QB who has a fondness even in his own home, of throwing to Samuel and Harrison.
     
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think he's talking about just last night. I also think some of the theories on last night's secondary play - including my initial theory - are off-base. Upon further review, it looked to me like the plan was to keep TJ and Cinco contained and tackle well. It worked like a charm, but it can be misleading - to me, anyway - when you see a lot of completions, like last night and against the jets.

    Then you look up and see they're 0-7 on 3rd downs and only scored 13 points and you realize that's it's possible that Bill Belichick knows more about football than we do. MAYBE.
     
  18. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    of course, they both ARE good (along with almost every one else on the team's 53 :D)
     
  19. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm not an expert, but I've noticed (or I think I've noticed) that the play of Samuel and Hobbs is different. Samuel is not terribly fast, he is quick, and that has to be made up for by playing off of the line. This is usually done with some over the top help, and also allows for him to make more gambles on jumped routes. He'll allow some longer completions, but when his gambles pay off they are big.

    Hobbs has more speed and can line up closer to the receiver on many plays (this doesn't happen always). I remember a third down play late in the game, it was third and nine, and CJ ran a slant from the offensive left, and Hobbs had been right at the line in coverage and was like velcro. Incomplete pass.

    The two are different, but good.
     
  20. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    It makes you realize how good the Patriots are and how bad the Bengals defense is when you're watching the game and say "The Patriots are going to run behind Light on this play", then the Patriots do so and pick up 8 yards. If you're watching the game and know what they're going to do trust me the defensive coaches they're playing against likely know what they're going to do. The fact that Cincy couldn't stop it speaks volumes.

    Does it seem strange to anyone else that you can figure out what the Patriots are going to run, but it still works? I don't just mean being able to figure out they're going to run it, but knowing who their running behind too. It's pretty amazing to me.
     

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