Patriots Training Camp (Day Five, Tuesday July 30)

[Demosthenes]

Value/salary is a lot more important to a GM. But again, they see something... as of August 1st. Could change tomorrow... err today. Pats cut guys at Tebow's salary obligation level like fleas.

Value/salary is still something that can be look at both in the short tem and the longer term. For example, what value did Brady provide as QB4 his rookie year ?

 

[Joker]

Value/salary is still something that can be look at both in the short tem and the longer term. For example, what value did Brady provide as QB4 his rookie year ?

I fail to understand your point...in the short term his value obviously was extremely high as he went from 4th on the depth chart to 2nd by the end of the season.Long term should be obvious.

 

[Husse]

Wow, this thread is really depressing. Why are there so many people acting like they're five years old (with fancier words)?

 

[Demosthenes]

I fail to understand your point...in the short term his value obviously was extremely high as he went from 4th on the depth chart to 2nd by the end of the season.Long term should be obvious.

Brady really didn't provide any "short term" value to the Pats. They had 2 QBs in front of him as backups for Bledsoe and it's not like he was out there playing special teams.

Bill did see some long term value in him though, which is why he didn't want to risk losing him. So, he carried Brady as the #4.

 

[Joker]

Brady really didn't provide any "short term" value to the Pats. They had 2 QBs in front of him as backups for Bledsoe and it's not like he was out there playing special teams.

Bill did see some long term value in him though, which is why he didn't want to risk losing him. So, he carried Brady as the #4.

no that is incorrect. BB kept Brady on the roster STARTING as the 4th QB...Brady was #2 by season's end usurping Friesz in December. He passed Bishop after 8 games into the season as the 3rd QB on the depth chart. Bishop never saw another snap that season and was released immediately at season's end as was Friesz.Brady ended up #2 on the 2000 depth chart and took that into the 2001 sea1son which, as we all know, was the beginning of his reign...

 

[Demosthenes]

no that is incorrect. BB kept Brady on the roster STARTING as the 4th QB...Brady was #2 by season's end usurping Friesz in December. He passed Bishop after 8 games into the season as the 3rd QB on the depth chart. Bishop never saw another snap that season and was released immediately at season's end as was Friesz.Brady ended up #2 on the 2000 depth chart and took that into the 2001 sea1son which, as we all know, was the beginning of his reign...

Yeah, but Bill didn't know at the beginning of the season that Brady was going to leapfrog the other 2. If he had known, I seriously doubt that he would have carried all 4 QBs all season long.

The point I'm making is that Brady wasn't expected to make a contribution to the team in the "short term", i.e. THAT season.

 

[Salva135]

That value/salary mention was not meant to invoke Brady comparisons. It was meant to help you examine the value/salary of Tebow to the Pats at this moment. We know the denominator (peanuts). We don't know the numerator at the end of training camp. Could be zero.

 

[Salva135]

Demo, if you think Tebow has value as QB3 and can learn some things and become a better QB under this coaching staff, great. I don't really care. I care about how Brady is going to look in preseason with his new weapons.

If Tebow gets any reps at QB this preseason, good for him. It really doesn't matter much for the future of this team.

I don't want him being inserted unnecessarily to the detriment of the offense. The offense, despite the change of personnel, gives me hope simply because it has a good idea of what it wants to accomplish, aka, a good system, and the best ever conductor of that system. No idea where he fits, I personally don't see a place right now, or maybe ever. heh. But I could be wrong eventually.

That's the end of my Tebow thought process.

 

[Demosthenes]

That value/salary mention was not meant to invoke Brady comparisons. It was meant to help you examine the value/salary of Tebow to the Pats at this moment. We know the denominator (peanuts). We don't know the numerator at the end of training camp. Could be zero.

Demo, if you think Tebow has value as QB3 and can learn some things and become a better QB under this coaching staff, great. I don't really care. I care about how Brady is going to look in preseason with his new weapons.

If Tebow gets any reps at QB this preseason, good for him. It really doesn't matter much for the future of this team.

That's the end of my Tebow thought process.

Salva,

That's quite some change in a whole 8 minutes.

You apparently misunderstood the Brady comparisions, vis a vis, the value/salary of Tebow to the Pats at this moment.


You were basically asking "what does Tebow bring to the Pats THIS YEAR" ?


I was pointing out that he might only be QB3 and nothing more. BUT, value/salary has to be looked at long term as well.

Without getting into a detailed conversation, IF Tebow progresses in the preseason or this year, that gives the Pats some room to maneuver with Mallet.

 

[Joker]

Yeah, but Bill didn't know at the beginning of the season that Brady was going to leapfrog the other 2. If he had known, I seriously doubt that he would have carried all 4 QBs all season long.

The point I'm making is that Brady wasn't expected to make a contribution to the team in the "short term", i.e. THAT season.

certainly not by the fan base or the near comatose media...but if you get the chance read Michael Holley's epic Patriot tome, Patriot Reign. Chapter Three gives an in depth look into the mind of Bill Belechick and insight into why Bill scouted and drafted Brady.

There is this urban myth that Belechick blindly stumbled in Brady in the 6th round. it's how others cope with their absolute and abject blindness of Belechick's modus operandi.You have to realize, John Friesz started the 2000 season #2 on the Pats depth chart. Thanksgiving Day, Nov 23rd Brady got in at the end for a series in a loss to the Lions. Bledsoe was ineffective that day. Friesz sat. The next day, BB announced Brady had been elevated to the #2 QB position. Even then he knew he wanted Bledsoe out and was laying the groundwork for a Brady takeover, which, thanks to Mo Lewis, came the very next season.

The only reason BB kept Bishop the entire season was to try tro recoup a draft pick. Bishop had a lot of admirers as far as his running and gunslingling approach went in college but no one,after seeing him used the first half of the Pats 2000 season, was buying into him as an NFL QB. He played in Germany in 2001. If I knew where Friesz ended up, I'd be in California buried in a Rand think tank, but he just fell out of the league I presume.

 

[ivanvamp]

Hawkins just got cut so maybe Dobson will get that number now.

Training camp, Boyce and Thompkins look like they are stepping up. Will be very interesting to see our rookie wideouts in the first preseason game.

Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins - wow, that would be a really young and athletic group. Throw 'em right into the fire, BB!

 

[Ironman44]

Yes, because for one Tebow was great there will be another two Tebow was crap responses at which point it is reciprocated into two Tebow was crap responses to four Tebow is great responses. I believe it's called a vicious circle.
.

The problem is no one ever says Tebow was great . They simply post anything positive that is written by an nfl analyst ( somethis as mundane as " he seems to be improving" ) and the the anti Tebow crowd goes wild . Then the vicious cycle starts .

I for one decided last night I will no longer engage in it . If I ( and its an if because we are talking about an on the bubble third string QB) post something on point and it's accurate with a source about Tebow and the insults start flying towards me , so be it , I won't react to it.

I'm not going to be part of the vicious cycle. it's toxic and this forum is too good to be polluted by it .

 

[chasa]

Just out of curiosity, browsing through this thread, where would you say that it got derailed in your opinion? Is there a specific post that appears to be the starting point?

the part where dues decided to jump in and start ranting.

CC and Myself had what 5 messages between us, and then it ended, Dues has spent 4 pages because he always has to be right.

The thread wasn't even really derailed at that point, but now its nothing be you are wrong i am right, no i am right you are wrong.

 

[Uncle Rico]

The problem is no one ever says Tebow was great . They simply post anything positive that is written by an nfl analyst ( somethis as mundane as " he seems to be improving" ) and the the anti Tebow crowd goes wild . Then the vicious cycle starts .

I for one decided last night I will no longer engage in it . If I ( and its an if because we are talking about an on the bubble third string QB) post something on point and it's accurate with a source about Tebow and the insults start flying towards me , so be it , I won't react to it.

I'm not going to be part of the vicious cycle. it's toxis and this forum is too good to be polluted by it .

Bravissimo.

 

[Fixit]

It's worth nothing that the real-life Tebow has caused no stir whatsoever since he's been with the Patriots, and all the drama is from the Tebow fanboys and the "Tebow is the worst thing in the history of evah" crowd getting all pissy with each other when they don't actually have a clue what's going to happen.

Breathe, relax, wait to see what happens, but for Christ's sake (see what I did there? ), get over yourselves.

 

[Uncle Rico]

It's worth nothing that the real-life Tebow has caused no stir whatsoever since he's been with the Patriots, and all the drama is from the Tebow fanboys and the "Tebow is the worst thing in the history of evah" crowd getting all pissy with each other when they don't actually have a clue what's going to happen.

Breathe, relax, wait to see what happens, but for Christ's sake (see what I did there? ), get over yourselves.

Ben Volin in today's Globe had a column saying that Tebow will make this team, no doubt. One main reason is he will help the team prepare for read-option opponents (regular season and play-offs). Also says Tebow is going to get a chance to prove he can be a backup, which would enable them to trade Mallett in the off-season.

Interesting football discussion stuff — own-thread worthy IMO. But I decided not to go there because I know it will turn into another crap storm. Too bad.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A reminder to those who once again bring their back and forth to yet another thread:

How To Place A Person On Ignore

First Method:

• Click on the screen name of the person to be put on ignore. That will pull up a few options, including "view public profile"
  
• Click on the "view public profile" link. That will pull up the member's profile page. Under the member's screen name on that page is an option that says "User lists".
  
• Click on "user lists". You'll see an option that says "add to ignore list". You click on that and you'll be asked to verify that you want to put that person on ignore.
  
• Click on "Yes", and the person is on ignore.

Second Method:

• Go to your own "User CP". On the left side, you'll see a bunch of options, including "Edit ignore list".
  
• Click on "edit ignore list". Add the member's name, click "OK" and then click "save changes".

The third option is for a moderator to ban all involved from the particular thread.

:focus:

Thanks again Ian for user ignore which I have yet to use despite temptation (occasionally said users do post worthwhile comments) and especially thread ignore which I do use on occasion.

This would be a better forum were participants to leave disagreements in the original threads and not go all pissy in new threads with the same old.

 

[Nunchucks]

Ben Volin in today's Globe had a column saying that Tebow will make this team, no doubt. One main reason is he will help the team prepare for read-option opponents (regular season and play-offs). Also says Tebow is going to get a chance to prove he can be a backup, which would enable them to trade Mallett in the off-season.

Interesting football discussion stuff — own-thread worthy IMO. But I decided not to go there because I know it will turn into another crap storm. Too bad.

Ben Volin knows nothing about the Patriots, he just started covering them like 5 minutes ago.

 

[Fixit]

Ben Volin knows nothing about the Patriots, he just started covering them like 5 minutes ago.

Be sure to let us know when he's been covering them long enough to be taken seriously.

 

[Demosthenes]

certainly not by the fan base or the near comatose media...but if you get the chance read Michael Holley's epic Patriot tome, Patriot Reign. Chapter Three gives an in depth look into the mind of Bill Belechick and insight into why Bill scouted and drafted Brady.

There is this urban myth that Belechick blindly stumbled in Brady in the 6th round. it's how others cope with their absolute and abject blindness of Belechick's modus operandi.You have to realize, John Friesz started the 2000 season #2 on the Pats depth chart. Thanksgiving Day, Nov 23rd Brady got in at the end for a series in a loss to the Lions. Bledsoe was ineffective that day. Friesz sat. The next day, BB announced Brady had been elevated to the #2 QB position. Even then he knew he wanted Bledsoe out and was laying the groundwork for a Brady takeover, which, thanks to Mo Lewis, came the very next season.

The only reason BB kept Bishop the entire season was to try tro recoup a draft pick. Bishop had a lot of admirers as far as his running and gunslingling approach went in college but no one,after seeing him used the first half of the Pats 2000 season, was buying into him as an NFL QB. He played in Germany in 2001. If I knew where Friesz ended up, I'd be in California buried in a Rand think tank, but he just fell out of the league I presume.

Wow, you all read books ?? Yet another thing that separates Pats fans from Jests fans.

Thanks for the insight about Patriot Reign. Will comment more after reading chapter 3