Patriots Training Camp (Day Five, Tuesday July 30)

[belichick010405]

Really ? That's where the thread derailed ? That comment ? Kind of funny seeing how I can't see where anyone responded to that comment or that it caused any kind real exchange.

Demos - not "seeing where anyone responded to that comment" doesn't mean that it was yet another comment made in a personal nature that wasn't noticed.

I have known SB1 for quite sometime and if you don't think that I didn't take umbrage to his comment while trying to discuss what was clearly the most observed practice during camp and on a day where us long-time Patriots fans were celebrating the induction of Tedy Bruschi and Gil Santos, I know that was it for me.

You and the others that have joined this website since Tebow was signed have one topic in mind. Even on the Patriots Hall of Fame day.

That was it for me. Have a great time over the next month. You know where I stand on Tebow and I stand based on empirical evidence and the stats he had in 2011.

You and the others can stand wherever it is you want to stand. When I come back when the regular season starts, it will be interesting to see how this team comes out and who is on the roster.

It will be equally interesting to see if you or the others are going to be here if Tebow is one of the guys cut prior to the 53-man roster because the Vice-President of Player Personnel had decided that Tebow is simply not going to help this team win games because he cannot fill a substantive role other than being a quarterback.

Have a good rest of your summer.

 

[Demosthenes]

Teblows closely followed by zealots.

So, putting it figuratively, some people from the Anti crowed threw some punches, then some pro Tebow types punched back ?

I do, thus my surprise at your open derision of the anti-Tebow crew knowing the pro-Tebow crew are stoking the fire. Further to that point, you've openly stated that it's great to have conflicting reports of player performances giving your own TC observations a head start. With that in mind, citing a pro-Tebow training report whilst conveniently overlooking anti-Tebow training reports is (disingenuous) disconcerting.

Defending a player is "stoking the fire" ?


I'm sorry, but when someone says something outrageous such as:

]Teblows skillset is the following.

Take the ball, Run for a 6 yard gain or a 20 yard loss.
Take the ball and throw an interception
Take the ball and throw it as far as you can, Have reciever run as fast as they can, hope receiver catches the ball.

Our defense is not good enough to support an offense that has three plays.

To counter something like that is "stoking the fire"


BTW, this is around where the thread got derailed (it actually started 2 posts before that in my opinion.

For your record, I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm not a personal fan of the decision to sign Tebow but I'm supporting him because he's a Patriots player.

That's a more than fair position. Afterall, he's just a 3rd string QB at this point.

 

[ausbacker]

So, putting it figuratively, some people from the Anti crowed threw some punches, then some pro Tebow types punched back ?

Defending a player is "stoking the fire" ?

I'm sorry, but when someone says something outrageous such as:

No. It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion when it involves the opposing anti-Tebow and pro-Tebow parties. It's nothing more than forum pollution.

To counter something like that is "stoking the fire"

Yes, because for one Tebow was great there will be another two Tebow was crap responses at which point it is reciprocated into two Tebow was crap responses to four Tebow is great responses. I believe it's called a vicious circle.

BTW, this is around where the thread got derailed (it actually started 2 posts before that in my opinion.

It started long before this thread Demosthenes. It isn't a Tebow phenomenon and I've been guilty of it before (generally with AndyJohnson).

That's a more than fair position. Afterall, he's just a 3rd string QB at this point.

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[Demosthenes]

Focus on my previous post. JI didn't create a separate forum because they don't have the volume of traffic that TGG does. When a Tebow-follower learns Tebow is a Jet, he's going to TGG first. Hence, the higher traffic.

The "thousands of earthlings" is response to the claim that only a small handful of Tebow-followers come to a board, so it's no big deal. It WAS a big deal over at TGG. There were THOUSANDS of posts about Tebow. Endless threads started by his supporters. They deleted it now, but at least 80 threads over the course of a year for a player who only saw 70 snaps.

How do you explain this? Is it the supporters? Is it the haters? It doesn't even matter. My point is about forum de-railment and the mods over there rightfully made a separate forum to keep a Jets-first forum clean. Maybe the Tebow-supporters and haters used it to take liberty and go off on any and everything they could think of. But I browsed that forum, and it was endless, ugly, and unproductive.

So maybe it's the Jets fans or their mods, I don't know. But I am very glad the conversation is controlled around here to relevant Tebow threads. If I want to find something Pats-related, I don't have to sift.

the Tebowmania section is still easy enough to find at GGF. Again, I seriously disagree that they NEEDED to create a separate forum. They handled things quite well initially by simply merging threads.

You talk about browsing over there. I lived in the stench for a year at GGF. I was there every day (except for the times that I was banned by LTJF). I know who the Tebow supporters were there. I know who kept coming in and causing trouble. I know who the trolls were who had no ties whatsoever to the Jets, but were allowed free reign there. I know how the rules were selectively enforced to the point that as long as your were knocking Tebow, it was all to the good wth the Mods.

Please don't sit here and try to explain to me how things went at that site because as I said, I was there.



As for the last part of your post, I agree with you absolutely 1000%. So far, Tebow talk has primarly been kept in appropriate threads. The mods have done a fantastic job keeping a handle on things and smacking down BOTH sides as need be to keep things under control.

It definitely doesn't hurt that most the posters I have come across here are first class.

 

[supafly]

It isn't a Tebow phenomenon and I've been guilty of it before (generally with AndyJohnson).

You, and the other 1,500-2,000 members who frequent this forum from time to time.

Oops, now I'm doing it

In all seriousness though, AJ is a good guy. He tends to be a little argumentative at times however--as we all do. I keep telling him that he'd make a fine attorney. He'd simply wear the opposing counsel down to the point where they no longer cared anymore

 

[Demosthenes]

Demos - not "seeing where anyone responded to that comment" doesn't mean that it was yet another comment made in a personal nature that wasn't noticed.

I have known SB1 for quite sometime and if you don't think that I didn't take umbrage to his comment while trying to discuss what was clearly the most observed practice during camp and on a day where us long-time Patriots fans were celebrating the induction of Tedy Bruschi and Gil Santos, I know that was it for me.

You and the others that have joined this website since Tebow was signed have one topic in mind. Even on the Patriots Hall of Fame day.

[/quote]

The question wasn't "where did a comment of a personal nature occur?" The question asked was "where did the thread get derailed?"

Of course, you didn't take umbrage at the earlier comment towards SB1 by someone else, when they implied that he made the comments about Mallet due to him being a post Tebow registrant. Insinuating that he was a Tebowite.

That was it for me. Have a great time over the next month. You know where I stand on Tebow and I stand based on empirical evidence and the stats he had in 2011.

You and the others can stand wherever it is you want to stand. When I come back when the regular season starts, it will be interesting to see how this team comes out and who is on the roster.

Hell Belichick, I stand right there with you and Tebow's 2011 stats. Especially the stat of 7-4 after taking over as a starter with no real preseason to speak of, couple with, 1-1 in the playoffs with a victory over the Steelers.

It will be equally interesting to see if you or the others are going to be here if Tebow is one of the guys cut prior to the 53-man roster because the Vice-President of Player Personnel had decided that Tebow is simply not going to help this team win games because he cannot fill a substantive role other than being a quarterback.

Have a good rest of your summer.

I'll tell you right now that if Tebow is cut any time soon, I probably won't be around much longer. Then again, maybe I'll have developed an attachment for the Pats and might hang around.

What I really hope for though is that Tebow stays with the Pats for quite a few years and that during that time, I become a raging die hard Pats fan.

 

[supafly]

I'm hoping that the Re: Patriots Training Camp (Day Six) thread is a little more focused.

Unless of course Tebow is showcased tomorrow, and that'd throw the whole plan off.

 

[ATippett56]

Unless of course Tebow is showcased tomorrow, and that'd throw the whole plan off.

As the third string quarterback once again.

 

[Salva135]

the Tebowmania section is still easy enough to find at GGF. Again, I seriously disagree that they NEEDED to create a separate forum. They handled things quite well initially by simply merging threads.

You talk about browsing over there. I lived in the stench for a year at GGF. I was there every day (except for the times that I was banned by LTJF). I know who the Tebow supporters were there. I know who kept coming in and causing trouble. I know who the trolls were who had no ties whatsoever to the Jets, but were allowed free reign there. I know how the rules were selectively enforced to the point that as long as your were knocking Tebow, it was all to the good wth the Mods.

Please don't sit here and try to explain to me how things went at that site because as I said, I was there.



As for the last part of your post, I agree with you absolutely 1000%. So far, Tebow talk has primarly been kept in appropriate threads. The mods have done a fantastic job keeping a handle on things and smacking down BOTH sides as need be to keep things under control.

It definitely doesn't hurt that most the posters I have come across here are first class.

I still think you missed my point - if the "not to be mentioned any further" Jets forum didn't bus threads over there, the "Tebow looked good in camp today," "Look at this column about Tebow," "I hear Tebow is unhappy he's not starting" threads would have been endless on that main board. But again, a testament to mods over here to keeping the white noise silent. Maybe it was just a lazy way of non-modding.

 

[supafly]

As the third string quarterback once again.

An elusiveness drill or two would certainly give the same result.

Not that I personally have any problem with Tebow or his fans, but the back and forth is too predictable. Those who care for him vs those who don't care for him certainly have strong feelings...

If the guy offers some way to improve the team on any level then I'm all for it.

 

[ausbacker]

You, and the other 1,500-2,000 members who frequent this forum from time to time.

Oops, now I'm doing it

In all seriousness though, AJ is a good guy. He tends to be a little argumentative at times however--as we all do. I keep telling him that he'd make a fine attorney. He'd simply wear the opposing counsel down to the point where they no longer cared anymore

I'm not doubting that fact supa. For one reason or another, we tend to lock horns more than we should.

 

[Ironman44]

Demos - not "seeing where anyone responded to that comment" doesn't mean that it was yet another comment made in a personal nature that wasn't noticed.

I have known SB1 for quite sometime and if you don't think that I didn't take umbrage to his comment while trying to discuss what was clearly the most observed practice during camp and on a day where us long-time Patriots fans were celebrating the induction of Tedy Bruschi and Gil Santos, I know that was it for me.

You and the others that have joined this website since Tebow was signed have one topic in mind. Even on the Patriots Hall of Fame day.

That was it for me. Have a great time over the next month. You know where I stand on Tebow and I stand based on empirical evidence and the stats he had in 2011.

You and the others can stand wherever it is you want to stand. When I come back when the regular season starts, it will be interesting to see how this team comes out and who is on the roster.

It will be equally interesting to see if you or the others are going to be here if Tebow is one of the guys cut prior to the 53-man roster because the Vice-President of Player Personnel had decided that Tebow is simply not going to help this team win games because he cannot fill a substantive role other than being a quarterback.

Have a good rest of your summer.

C'mon guys just let it go already ( the horse has been beaten to death ) I have no problem with sb1 and we have had discussions in a mature way ( just read them ) . You are missinterpreting that comment in a BIG way . That comment wasn't any sort of attack at all. I was jokingly explaining why he signed up in July .

 

[ATippett56]

If the guy offers some way to improve the team on any level then I'm all for it.

Scout team quarterback:

Cam Newton
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith ???

 

[supafly]

Scout team quarterback:

Cam Newton
EJ Manuel
Geno Smith ???

Could be, although one might think that someone like Edelman may be able to handle some of those duties too, although the lack of size may come into play.

It could just come down to a more simplistic approach where Kafka wasn't picking up the offense too well, and Belichick brought in a guy who he knows is a hard nosed football player who is smart and fully dedicated to the game. He seems to always find some use for that kind of player.

Another theory could be to potentially save another roster spot I suppose. After all, Kafka wasn't going to play on special teams or offer any trick play capability from time to time.

Either way, I personally don't have a problem with it as long as he plays some kind of role and offers value to the team--even if it's at 3rd string QB. I just hope that Belichick would cut him by next season if he isn't picking up his skill set on some level.

 

[Salva135]

Does Tebow have to have value to the team? What if he just sits on 3rd while he practices all year? ESPN doesn't want to see it, but who is pissed if this the end judgement? (no Tebow-Revelations jokes, please)

Honestly, I don't know what the Pats want with him. They obviously see something. I personally don't, he doesn't fit anything the Pats value in the way they run an offense. But he's here so far. So I'd rather withhold judgment until I hear that Tebow has earned 3rd string. We don't even have a clue what they're going to do with Mallett, he's the biggest topic on the board, not Tebow.

We have a month to find out! We all hate Bart Scott, but - Can't Wait!

 

[Demosthenes]

I still think you missed my point - if the "not to be mentioned any further" Jets forum didn't bus threads over there, the "Tebow looked good in camp today," "Look at this column about Tebow," "I hear Tebow is unhappy he's not starting" threads would have been endless on that main board. But again, a testament to mods over here to keeping the white noise silent. Maybe it was just a lazy way of non-modding.

I didn't miss the point. You actually nailed it right at the end, it was a lazy job of non-modding.

 

[Demosthenes]

Does Tebow have to have value to the team? What if he just sits on 3rd while he practices all year? ESPN doesn't want to see it, but who is pissed if this the end judgement? (no Tebow-Revelations jokes, please)

Honestly, I don't know what the Pats want with him. They obviously see something. I personally don't, he doesn't fit anything the Pats value in the way they run an offense. But he's here so far. So I'd rather withhold judgment until I hear that Tebow has earned 3rd string. We don't even have a clue what they're going to do with Mallett, he's the biggest topic on the board, not Tebow.

We have a month to find out! We all hate Bart Scott, but - Can't Wait!

On a longer term perspective, sitting on 3rd this year @ his salary could still be a value to the team, provided that he improves as a QB.

 

[Salva135]

On a longer term perspective, sitting on 3rd this year @ his salary could still be a value to the team, provided that he improves as a QB.

Value/salary is a lot more important to a GM. But again, they see something... as of August 1st. Could change tomorrow... err today. Pats cut guys at Tebow's salary obligation level like fleas.

 

[supafly]

On a longer term perspective, sitting on 3rd this year @ his salary could still be a value to the team, provided that he improves as a QB.

Could be a possibility.

Only a handful of people really know what the plan is for Tebow, and even they may not know what it is long term at this moment in time. All of those people are probably much smarter than me and have proven that they are capable of running a successful NFL franchise, so I will trust and defer to them.

 

[Salva135]

Honestly, when opening day comes and Brady is under center, no one is going to care about any of this conversation. Third QB value? Are you kidding? We're trying to win a Super Bowl here.