Brady6 Offseason Plan 1.0

[50-yard-line]

Personally, I hope B6 is right.

I'll take a 33 for Mallett - especially with a draft class this deep.

 

[Brady6]

Even taking into account hindsight, Brett Favre was Brett Favre and Ryan Mallet isn't.

He was much less of a gamble.

Brett Favre threw 4 passes with the Falcons in 1991, 0 of them were completed and 2 of them were intercepted, and the Packers traded the 19th pick for him, so I am not on the same page with you here.

 

[Ring 6]

Well let me ask you this; if Mallett's value was seen as a potential first round pick in 2011 what has he done to lower that value in the last three years?
.

This is just an old wives tale.
"Projections" that Mallett was a '1st round value" we wrong, he went 82nd or something like that. THAT was his value.
What has he done to show he has more value than 32 teams gave him 3 years ago?

 

[Ring 6]

Personally, I hope B6 is right.

I'll take a 33 for Mallett - especially with a draft class this deep.

Me too, just as I hope we can get a 2nd for Jake Bequette and a 1st for Tavon Wilson.

 

[DocHoliday]

Brett Favre threw 4 passes with the Falcons in 1991, 0 of them were completed and 2 of them were intercepted, and the Packers traded the 19th pick for him, so I am not on the same page with you here.

Favre was a heralded college player and was considered to be a steal pick by the Falcons in the second round.

Ryan Mallet had some questions surrounding him and was picked pretty much where people thought he would.

We haven't even gotten into Mallet's supposed coke use either.

 

[Joker]

Ok while I respect your opinion, I think you are looking at the names and not the economics or situations.

Connolly will be 32 years old on opening day, he has an APY of $3.25M, Wendell is a UFA and unlike some I feel he is a solid top 15 OC so I anticipate he will receive $2.5M-$3M APY on the UFA market this offseason, but for the sake of this discussion we will go with $2M APY. The combined APY for the two of them would be around $5.25M, the deal I proposed for Mack is $6.5M APY. What would you rather have Mack for $6.5M or Connolly and Wendell for $5.25M? As far as this season goes, Connolly has a $4.1M cap hit.

I did draft a replacement for Mankins in Steen who I project to take over in 2016. If we resign Solder and Cannon the line would be –

2014 + 2015
- LT – Solder
- LG – Mankins, Steen
- OC – Mack
- RG – Cannon
- RT - Vollmer
2016
- LT – Solder
- LG – Steen, TBD
- OC – Mack
- RG – Cannon
- RT – Vollmer



Rotoworld has Cooper ranked as the tenth best UFA WR on the market right now, the deal I proposed is a 3 year contract with only his base salary for 2014 which is $1M and a $2.65M signing bonus. It is not a substantial investment, and he is not a marquee player, I view him as a Donald Jones type signing.

If it was fantasy football I would have signed a top 5 WR...

I mentioned fantasy because Cooper has a sort of pretty well known history of RACISM to date in this thing we call the NFL.Does Rotoworld have a plus/minus racism factor as far as disruptring and polarizing an entire team?

You think Wendell is a top 15 center????????????????????

Look, WATCH Tape...try it...there's plenty out there. Since the Super Bowl in 2007 the way teams try to beat the Patriots passing game is by rushing Brady through the A gaps. YOU are this stat addicted "genius" with a lifetime Rotoworld subscription. LOOK at the stats other teams put up rushing Brady right OVER Wendell the past two seasons. Teams with no inside pressure to speak of come in and BLAST Brady right up the middle with bull rush after bull rush, preventing him from stepping UP in the pocket and doing what he does best. Brady is NOT Manning, who you try to move OFF his spot in the pocket. Brady can pass from anywhere within an evolving pocket as long as he gets the time. He cannot run this offense getting 2 second A gap pressure in every big game they play. THAT is all Wendell. He's a valuable, versatile BACKUP. SIGN WENDELL??? Then say buh bye to any chance Brady does anything in the passing game come playoff time.

Fortify the middle of the offensive line. Round 1 or 2, best center prospect available. Fortify the middle of the defensive line. Round 1 or 2. Build from the inside out so Brady's last years are competitive.I let Wendell walk and pay rookie wages and escalating first deal money to a STUD center for 4 years. No brainer.

 

[primetime]

This is just an old wives tale.
"Projections" that Mallett was a '1st round value" we wrong, he went 82nd or something like that. THAT was his value.
What has he done to show he has more value than 32 teams gave him 3 years ago?

Not only that, but this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory with many quality QBs available after the 1st round. Instead of an unknown 26 year old who's cost-controlled for just one more year, you could instead draft a more or less equally unknown 22 year old who's cost-controlled for four.

 

[Brady6]

Zero of which netted what you think Mallet will after sitting for 3 years.

Really, you sure about that, because coincidently the Texans traded two second round draft picks and 2 spots in the first round to the Falcons for Matt Schaub.

No I don't. You confuse lack of ever showing you have ability with teams trading for you as if you do.

Ryan Mallett had threw for 447 yards, 3 touchdowns compared to just 1 interceptions, and was only sacked once this preseason. His primary receivers were Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, Sims, Ballard, and Sudfeld. What issues you have with his performance is a big ? for me.

So where do you get the idea that he can play?

I know that in his last 2 preseasons he has thrown for 747 yards, 6 touchdowns compared to 2 interceptions and has been sacked just 3 times while playing with backups and future roster cuts. Which is better than Cassell or Brady played in the preseason, prior to becoming starters.

The fact that one player improved when given more opportunity does not have anything to do with another player.
You are arguing that everyone who has never played should be considered good.

Plenty of players improve, Vereen improved with his opportunity this past offseason, as did Cannon when he was inserted to start for Vollmer. Did you think Rob Ninkovich would be what he is today when he was playing STs his first season?

First of all you don't know that is the asking price and second who cares what the asking price is? If no one pays it, then it is wrong.

I do not know if it will get paid and you do not know if it will not get paid. As a fan of the team though I would think you should advocate that it should be paid, given it is possible and has happen in the past with other backup QBs.

None of those players were traded for second round picks, much less at the top of the second round. They weren't wanted because of being Bret Favres backup, they were wanted because of preseason play, and coaching in the WCO.

Hasselbeck and the #17 pick and a seventh rounder were traded to the Seahawks for the #10 pick and a third rounder.
Brunell was traded to the Jaguars for a third and fifth round pick.
Brooks was traded to the Saints for a third round pick and linebacker K.D. Williams.

Cassell only started due to injury and was still benched.
Hoyer went unclaimed when we cut him and bounced around for 2 years.
No one spent a draft pick to trade for Hoyer, and Cassell only netted a 2nd with Mike Vrabel included in the deal AFTER he won 10 games as a starter.
Mallett hasn't thrown 10 passes.

He started due to poor play by Pounder and Freeman, and he was not benched at all, he started the final 5 games of the season and the Vikings are currently trying to retain him.

You think that someone is going to trade a pick 50 spots higher than Mallett was selected after he sat doing nothing for 3 years since no one thought he should go higher than 82 (or whatever exactly his draft slot was)?
How do you feel about some land that is slightly under water this time of year?

Mallett went 74th in 2011.

My proposed deal was Mallett and a conditional 2015 for the #33 pick. The conditional pick would be based on his performance, that is not an unreasonable trade at all, and you acting like it is, is just pessimistic.

 

[Brady6]

Favre was a heralded college player and was considered to be a steal pick by the Falcons in the second round.

Ryan Mallet had some questions surrounding him and was picked pretty much where people thought he would.

We haven't even gotten into Mallet's supposed coke use either.

2011 NFL Draft Thievery: 5 Reasons Why Ryan Mallett Is a Steal for the Patriots | Bleacher Report

Round: 3, Pick: 10 (Overall: 74)
Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas: There comes a breaking point when one of the highest-rated players at a position is still available and it's the right time to make the move. That's how it unfolded with Mallett at No. 74. The Patriots obviously didn't like the defensive options, so they went the best-player-available route. Mallett will have time to develop behind the scenes.

NFL Draft: Grading the 2011 Patriots draft - ESPN Boston

 

[Ring 6]

Really, you sure about that, because coincidently the Texans traded two second round draft picks and 2 spots in the first round to the Falcons for Matt Schaub.

You mean the same Matt Schaub who threw 161 NFL passes in Atlanta?
See that doesnt count in this example.

Ryan Mallett had threw for 447 yards, 3 touchdowns compared to just 1 interceptions, and was only sacked once this preseason. His primary receivers were Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce, Sims, Ballard, and Sudfeld. What issues you have with his performance is a big ? for me.

You are kidding me right?

I know that in his last 2 preseasons he has thrown for 747 yards, 6 touchdowns compared to 2 interceptions and has been sacked just 3 times while playing with backups and future roster cuts. Which is better than Cassell or Brady played in the preseason, prior to becoming starters.

And playing against scrubs. You cannot seriously tell me that you think a team should upgrade his value from mid 3rd to top pick in the second because of his preseason play can you?
You like that 55% complete and 80 passer rating? Or was it the 49% and 70 rating from 2012?

Plenty of players improve, Vereen improved with his opportunity this past offseason, as did Cannon when he was inserted to start for Vollmer. Did you think Rob Ninkovich would be what he is today when he was playing STs his first season?

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Mallet

I do not know if it will get paid and you do not know if it will not get paid. As a fan of the team though I would think you should advocate that it should be paid, given it is possible and has happen in the past with other backup QBs.

At least we have gotten to the point, which is that you are praying someone would be stupid enough to offer that for Mallet because you are a Patsfan.

Hasselbeck and the #17 pick and a seventh rounder were traded to the Seahawks for the #10 pick and a third rounder.
Brunell was traded to the Jaguars for a third and fifth round pick.
Brooks was traded to the Saints for a third round pick and linebacker K.D. Williams.

Not 33.

He started due to poor play by Pounder and Freeman, and he was not benched at all, he started the final 5 games of the season and the Vikings are currently trying to retain him.

Cassel was benched after week 5 and only got back on the field because all of the other QBs suck. Are you telling me Cassel played well this year?

Mallett went 74th in 2011.

Not really much of a difference from 82.

My proposed deal was Mallett and a conditional 2015 for the #33 pick. The conditional pick would be based on his performance, that is not an unreasonable trade at all, and you acting like it is, is just pessimistic.

It is totally unrealistic. By the way I dont think you can trade a player and a conditional pick for a pick. You can only trade a player for a conditional pick. You can't add a pick for the condition the guy sucks.
You would have to give our 2nd with Mallet to get the Texans 2nd.
Mallet has very little trade value. At this point he would not get the 74 we used on him back.

 

[Ring 6]

2011 NFL Draft Thievery: 5 Reasons Why Ryan Mallett Is a Steal for the Patriots | Bleacher Report


NFL Draft: Grading the 2011 Patriots draft - ESPN Boston

Bleacher report? Really?
Here is the resume of the guy who wrote it

Barry has yet to fill out a bio.

Barry is also clearly an Arkansas fan based on his list of articles written as a fan posting articles to Bleacher report.

 

[Brady6]

If Tebow could, you can get him for free.
Pretending Mallet has more value than he does, doesnt make him have more value.

:bored:

Why would you assume that means he thinks he can play?

Because he was one of 83 QBs who started and finished 2013 on an NFL 53 man roster.

That does not make him a better player.
By this logic the Rams should trade their #1 for Mark Sanchez because Schottenheimer knows him really well.

:bored:

OBrien isn't trading for a guy because he was a Patriot. He is going to get a QB because he can play. There is no evidence out there that Mallett can play at this level.

Do you want evidence? How about the fact he is one of two QBs on the team of the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and he backs up the greatest QB of all time. I suppose you are right though, Belichick does not care about depth so he would obviously have someone incapable backing up the most important position on his team…

Come on man, you are acting like Mallett threw 20 interceptions in the preseason.

 

[Brady6]

Bleacher report? Really?
Here is the resume of the guy who wrote it

Barry is also clearly an Arkansas fan based on his list of articles written as a fan posting articles to Bleacher report.

No offense Andy but the guy has a column on bleacher report, you have a user name in a forum, eyes wide open his credentials are better than either of ours so let’s not dismiss him like we are above him.

Also if you click the ESPN link Reiss liked the pick too.

I am beginning to wonder if you have a bias against Patriots players the way you view some of them. I like your posts a lot of times but sometimes your conjecture is just negative, I purposed possible scenarios that have precedent to support them as a possibility, I am not sure why you are so adamant that it could never happen.

 

[mgteich]

I wonder why you all have such little regard for the position of backup QB. Belichick has twice used a 3rd rounder for this position.

Why would anyone think that Belichick thinks that the position can be filled by a JAG QB who might be available for cheap or by a late round draft choice?

I think that Mallett has filled the roster need as our #2 QB and has done well enough that Belichick didn't carry a 3rd QB in 2013 (as I thought that he should have).

I think that Belichick will bring in competition at QB, a player expected to be the #2 in 2015 or compete with a 2015 acquisition for that position.

Personally, I think that the 2014 Mallett decision was made when Belichick didn't carry a 3rd QB in 2013 (absent the acquisition of Cassell or Hoyer).
===========

Last year, Brady hurt his hand. Would the season have been over if the injury was a bit more serious and Brady needed to miss three games? Of course not. Certainly, Belichick thought that he had a player who could play and make the team competitive.

 

[Ring 6]

:bored:

Well isnt that a mature response.
Your entire point revolves around a good QB is worth number 33, not that Mallett is.

Because he was one of 83 QBs who started and finished 2013 on an NFL 53 man roster.

So all 83 are franchise QBs?

Do you want evidence? How about the fact he is one of two QBs on the team of the greatest coach in the history of the NFL and he backs up the greatest QB of all time.

So your argument is that any QB backing up Brady is thereby a franchise QB waiting to happen? Why have none ever become that? I don't think you understand what proof is.

I suppose you are right though, Belichick does not care about depth so he would obviously have someone incapable backing up the most important position on his team…

Who said he was a bad backup?

Come on man, you are acting like Mallett threw 20 interceptions in the preseason.

No, I am acting like he played like he did. Not very well.
You seem to think as long as he didn't wet himself on the field in the preseason teams will beat down the door to give a pick more valuable than what he was worth before 3 years of inactivity and mediocre preseason play.
If you are trying to argue that he is Brady like by osmosis, why does he look nothing like Brady in those preseason games.

 

[Brady6]

Well isnt that a mature response.

I am not sure what you want me to say to that, I mean it was not a literal opinion worthy of discussion.

Your entire point revolves around a good QB is worth number 33, not that Mallett is.

So all 83 are franchise QBs?

So your argument is that any QB backing up Brady is thereby a franchise QB waiting to happen? Why have none ever become that? I don't think you understand what proof is.

Who said he was a bad backup?

No, I am acting like he played like he did. Not very well.
You seem to think as long as he didn't wet himself on the field in the preseason teams will beat down the door to give a pick more valuable than what he was worth before 3 years of inactivity and mediocre preseason play.
If you are trying to argue that he is Brady like by osmosis, why does he look nothing like Brady in those preseason games.

Tell you what for the sake of the discussion, scratch the Mallett trade off the list of things, and I will go –

#29 – Dix
#62 – Easley
#93 – Dozier
#126 – Fiedorowicz
#182 –Lyerla
#190 – Janis
TBD – Burton
TBD – Kerr
#229 – McDougle

I do not understand what the difference is really acquiring the #33 pick is 5% of the entire plan.

 

[Ring 6]

No offense Andy but the guy has a column on bleacher report, you have a user name in a forum, eyes wide open his credentials are better than either of ours so let’s not dismiss him like we are above him.

No they are the same credentials, NONE. You or I could write for Bleacher report if we chose to. It is no different than a message board, and in fact, he kind of does have a user name, because he lists no bio.

Also if you click the ESPN link Reiss liked the pick too.

As much as he liked the RasIDowling, Markell Carter and Lee Smith picks, so what does that tell you?
If Mallet were really a #1 value, he would have given that pick an A+++

I am beginning to wonder if you have a bias against Patriots players the way you view some of them. I like your posts a lot of times but sometimes your conjecture is just negative, I purposed possible scenarios that have precedent to support them as a possibility, I am not sure why you are so adamant that it could never happen.

Now I'm a Patriot hater?
IT is very simple.
Mallet was drafted 74. He has done NOTHING since to change that value. If anything his value slid because at 26 you are much less of a prospect, because his preseason play has not showed that all he needs is a chance and he can light it up, and because he is in the last year of his contract which also hurts his value.
Your thinking here is just out of touch with the reality of he situation.
I am negative about the idea, because it is ludicrous.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not sure what you want me to say to that, I mean it was not a literal opinion worthy of discussion.

So then you recognize that arguing that Mallet is worth the 33rd pick IF HE CAN BE A FRANCHISE QB without any reason to believe he can was silly.

Tell you what for the sake of the discussion, scratch the Mallett trade off the list of things, and I will go –

#29 – Dix
#62 – Easley
#93 – Dozier
#126 – Fiedorowicz
#182 –Lyerla
#190 – Janis
TBD – Burton
TBD – Kerr
#229 – McDougle

I do not understand what the difference is really acquiring the #33 pick is 5% of the entire plan.

I have done nowhere near enough analysis of draft prospects to discuss a draft strategy.
I addressed Mallet becuase it is unrealistic and the FA signings because I see no way to afford what you have listed.
Those are the 2 topics to discuss here, given that me discussing draft prospects at this point would be uneducated.

 

[Brady6]

I mentioned fantasy because Cooper has a sort of pretty well known history of RACISM to date in this thing we call the NFL.Does Rotoworld have a plus/minus racism factor as far as disruptring and polarizing an entire team?

He sought help for that issue, and to be honest that is one of the reason I targeted him because I think he can be signed for minimal cost and only 1-year guaranteed.



I do not think that it will be an issue under Belichick, we have had murderers in our locker room threatening to kills our all pro slot receiver for not being willing to help him use the video equipment, the team can overcome the use of the “N” word.

You think Wendell is a top 15 center????????????????????

Overall yes, he is very good at run blocking, he struggles in pass blocking, but overall he would be a top 15, well let me rephrase that he would be #15. Look at the rest of the starters they are not very good.

Look, WATCH Tape...try it...there's plenty out there. Since the Super Bowl in 2007 the way teams try to beat the Patriots passing game is by rushing Brady through the A gaps. YOU are this stat addicted "genius" with a lifetime Rotoworld subscription. LOOK at the stats other teams put up rushing Brady right OVER Wendell the past two seasons. Teams with no inside pressure to speak of come in and BLAST Brady right up the middle with bull rush after bull rush, preventing him from stepping UP in the pocket and doing what he does best. Brady is NOT Manning, who you try to move OFF his spot in the pocket. Brady can pass from anywhere within an evolving pocket as long as he gets the time. He cannot run this offense getting 2 second A gap pressure in every big game they play. THAT is all Wendell. He's a valuable, versatile BACKUP. SIGN WENDELL??? Then say buh bye to any chance Brady does anything in the passing game come playoff time.

I do not think you need a subscription to Rotoworld.



I think you should read my OP again, I never said to resign Wendell, I said to sign Mack.

Fortify the middle of the offensive line. Round 1 or 2, best center prospect available. Fortify the middle of the defensive line. Round 1 or 2. Build from the inside out so Brady's last years are competitive.I let Wendell walk and pay rookie wages and escalating first deal money to a STUD center for 4 years. No brainer.

I agree which is why I want to sign Mack, move Cannon to RG and then draft a heir apparent for Mankins to back up.

 

[Brady6]

So then you recognize that arguing that Mallet is worth the 33rd pick IF HE CAN BE A FRANCHISE QB without any reason to believe he can was silly.

I think that O’Brien could see something in Mallett and make that type of deal, any other team I would agree that it is not going to happen. Overall as I have said numerous times it is unlikely, but I did purpose the 2015 conditional pick to insure it for the Texans a bit, say that conditional pick ranges from a third to sixth depending on Mallett’s play, if he bombed they would get a third rounder back next year, if he plays well they get a sixth. That to me if the Texans want to draft Clowney and think Mallett could do it is a reasonable trade.

Straight up I do not think it makes sense and agree with you. Any other team as I said I agree with you too. I am not a super fan who thinks all our players walk on water, which you know, I am critical of them too, but Mallett is an enigma we do not see him at all so it is really hard to gauge what he is and it could go either way.

I have done nowhere near enough analysis of draft prospects to discuss a draft strategy.
I addressed Mallet becuase it is unrealistic and the FA signings because I see no way to afford what you have listed.
Those are the 2 topics to discuss here, given that me discussing draft prospects at this point would be uneducated.

Fair enough, I appreciate the honesty.