Brady6 Offseason Plan 1.0

[Ring 6]

I think that O’Brien could see something in Mallett and make that type of deal, any other team I would agree that it is not going to happen.

And this is where it gets silly. You act as if OBrien sees something others don't. Coaches go get GOOD players from their past teams, not just players. OBriens opinion of Mallett may be the lowest of all 31 other teams because of that inside knowledge for all we know.

Overall as I have said numerous times it is unlikely, but I did purpose the 2015 conditional pick to insure it for the Texans a bit, say that conditional pick ranges from a third to sixth depending on Mallett’s play, if he bombed they would get a third rounder back next year, if he plays well they get a sixth. That to me if the Texans want to draft Clowney and think Mallett could do it is a reasonable trade.

As I said, you can't trade a player and a conditional pick for a pick.
Mallet has nothing to do with Clowney. They could just stick with Case Keenum or sign a FA.

Straight up I do not think it makes sense and agree with you. Any other team as I said I agree with you too. I am not a super fan who thinks all our players walk on water, which you know, I am critical of them too, but Mallett is an enigma we do not see him at all so it is really hard to gauge what he is and it could go either way.

Then why assume you can trade him for a round and a half improvement after he has sat idle for 3 years?

 

[Brady6]

And this is where it gets silly. You act as if OBrien sees something others don't. Coaches go get GOOD players from their past teams, not just players. OBriens opinion of Mallett may be the lowest of all 31 other teams because of that inside knowledge for all we know.





As I said, you can't trade a player and a conditional pick for a pick.

Mallet has nothing to do with Clowney. They could just stick with Case Keenum or sign a FA.







Then why assume you can trade him for a round and a half improvement after he has sat idle for 3 years?

I don't think the trade is impossible. Is it likely no.

Other than that I'm going to say have a good night as it pertains to this discussion because it is really just an agree to disagree situation for us.

 

[Deus Irae]

I wonder why you all have such little regard for the position of backup QB. Belichick has twice used a 3rd rounder for this position.

He's also used a 7th rounder and a UDFA. What's your point?

Why would anyone think that Belichick thinks that the position can be filled by a JAG QB who might be available for cheap or by a late round draft choice?

Because history shows that BB thinks the backup QB position can be filled by a JAG QB (Huard) or by a late round draft choice (Cassel).

I think that Mallett has filled the roster need as our #2 QB and has done well enough that Belichick didn't carry a 3rd QB in 2013 (as I thought that he should have).

Mallett's thrown 4 passes in his NFL career. He's filled the roster need as the Patriots clipboard holder and coffee fetcher.

I think that Belichick will bring in competition at QB, a player expected to be the #2 in 2015 or compete with a 2015 acquisition for that position.

How often have the Patriots gone through an offseason with only 2 QBS?

Personally, I think that the 2014 Mallett decision was made when Belichick didn't carry a 3rd QB in 2013 (absent the acquisition of Cassell or Hoyer).

Funny, but I recall it being made once they cut Tim Tebow.

Last year, Brady hurt his hand. Would the season have been over if the injury was a bit more serious and Brady needed to miss three games? Of course not. Certainly, Belichick thought that he had a player who could play and make the team competitive.

Yes, the Patriots season quite possibly would have been over if they'd lost Brady for 3 games. They weren't getting into the playoffs at 9-7 if one of those extra losses had been to the Jets or Dolphins.

 

[mgteich]

I will try to make this point simply.

If Belichick expected that Mallett playing instead of Brady for 3 games would result in 3 losses, Mallett should have been cut and replaced before the season started. Belichick made a judgment to keep Mallett and to not develop another quarterback to compete with him in 2013 or 2014. Apparently you disagree with his judgement.

Just BTW, I disagreed with the patriots not carrying a developmental quarterback, or at least one that might compete with Mallet this year and be expected to be our backup in 2015.

I am surprised that you think that Tebow was anything but a side show.

Yes, the Patriots season quite possibly would have been over if they'd lost Brady for 3 games. They weren't getting into the playoffs at 9-7 if one of those extra losses had been to the Jets or Dolphins.

 

[supafly]

OBriens opinion of Mallett may be the lowest of all 31 other teams because of that inside knowledge for all we know.

It seems that many feel there's an obvious connection that is definitely positive, but the truth is that we really don't know if it's positive, negative, or somewhere in between.

I don't blame anyone for the speculation in the least, and I actually agree that there's probably higher odds that HOU could be interested, but you also make a good point regarding the unknown just as well.

Most of these debates are just our personal opinion with speculative qualities. We'll have to see what happens, just like any other decision made by Belichick. I certainly do not personally believe that Mallett is worth anything near a 2nd rounder, and I'd even go another round into the 3rd on top of that.

 

[Coach42]

It seems that many feel there's an obvious connection that is definitely positive, but the truth is that we really don't know if it's positive, negative, or somewhere in between.

I don't blame anyone for the speculation in the least, and I actually agree that there's probably higher odds that HOU could be interested, but you also make a good point regarding the unknown just as well.

Most of these debates are just our personal opinion with speculative qualities. We'll have to see what happens, just like any other decision made by Belichick. I certainly do not personally believe that Mallett is worth anything near a 2nd rounder, and I'd even go another round into the 3rd on top of that.

I think we should count on getting nothing for him and anything we do get is a bonus.

 

[manxman2601]

OK show me all of the QBs drafted in the 3rd round who sat on the bench his entire first 3 years (4 passes) was shaky in preseason, and was traded for a 2nd round pick, much less the top pick in the and take a chance with him?.

How about Charlie Whitehurst? Drafted by the Chargers in the third round in 06 and traded to the Seahawks in 2010 for a 3rd round pick and a swap of seconds. Never threw a pass in anger for the Chargers and I think was a third stringer the whole time he was at the Chargers.


Charlie Whitehurst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not declaring sides, just pointing out that he pretty much fits the criteria.

 

[supafly]

I think we should count on getting nothing for him and anything we do get is a bonus.

I agree, Coach. Even if we don't make a trade in the offseason, Mallett wasn't necessarily a bad decision, considering the fact that he's at least held down the position of backup/scout team QB for cheap money.

I don't think it was a great move by any means, but we've seen plenty of 2nd/3rd/4th rounders not even keep their roster spots, so I personally don't have a problem with the selection myself.

How about Charlie Whitehurst? Drafted by the Chargers in the third round in 06 and traded to the Seahawks in 2010 for a 3rd round pick and a swap of seconds. Never threw a pass in anger for the Chargers and I think was a third stringer the whole time he was at the Chargers.


Charlie Whitehurst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not declaring sides, just pointing out that he pretty much fits the criteria.

While this is a fine example that has been brought up many times, manx, I wonder if the recent choices of Whitehurst/Kolb may even have a negative effect on the process, in the sense that it may have made some GMs more leery of parting with those 2nd/3rd rounders?

Another thing that comes to mind is that we can't really point to a bad personnel decision out of left field and claim that it's suddenly the standard (not claiming that you are attempting to do that, but I've seen others make that mistake). I think Charlie Whitehurst was a bit of a rare case, but that's just my opinion.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree, Coach. Even if we don't make a trade in the offseason, Mallett wasn't necessarily a bad decision, considering the fact that he's at least held down the position of backup/scout team QB for cheap money.

I don't think it was a great move by any means, but we've seen plenty of 2nd/3rd/4th rounders not even keep their roster spots, so I personally don't have a problem with the selection myself.



While this is a fine example that has been brought up many times, manx, I wonder if the recent choices of Whitehurst/Kolb may even have a negative effect on the process, in the sense that it may have made some GMs more leery of parting with those 2nd/3rd rounders?

Another thing that comes to mind is that we can't really point to a bad personnel decision out of left field and claim that it's suddenly the standard (not claiming that you are attempting to do that, but I've seen others make that mistake). I think Charlie Whitehurst was a bit of a rare case, but that's just my opinion.

I wasn't using it as an example to support any argument, AndyJohnson asked for an example of a comparable narrative and I provided it. My post was not meant to be taken to mean any more than that.

I'm not really interested in trying to predict a Mallett trade. I'm in the "if it happens, it happens" camp.

 

[goheels22002]

I would sooner have another UDFA like Hoyer than spend money on Clausen at this point.

I'd like to see how you got Gostkowski's hit that low.

Clausen? He's a stiff. The NFL is too fast for him and he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Here's a nice completion to a Cincinnati CB. Too bad Clausen was playing for Carolina at the time:

Hall picks off Clausen - NFL Videos

 

[Deus Irae]

I will try to make this point simply.

If Belichick expected that Mallett playing instead of Brady for 3 games would result in 3 losses, Mallett should have been cut and replaced before the season started. Belichick made a judgment to keep Mallett and to not develop another quarterback to compete with him in 2013 or 2014. Apparently you disagree with his judgement.

I guess I'll try to respond simply. I think BB gambled on Brady's health and the idea that he might steal a game, against a weak opponent, with his running backs, if needed.

Just BTW, I disagreed with the patriots not carrying a developmental quarterback, or at least one that might compete with Mallet this year and be expected to be our backup in 2015.

As long as it's not a 3rd rounder.

I am surprised that you think that Tebow was anything but a side show.

I'm surprised you think a rock-solid good guy kind of player who was wined and dined by BB, and drafted by McDaniels, was just a side show.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess I'll try to respond simply. I think BB gambled on Brady's health and the idea that he might steal a game, against a weak opponent, with his running backs, if needed.



.

Why would he do that? It makes absolutely no sense that he scrambles across the waivers wire to get the best special teams only player and 4th TE he can find, only to purposely have only 1 backup QB with a plan that he knows he has no chance of winning if his QB, who already missed a full season, got hurt. Keep digging deeper in that hole.

 

[Brady6]

While this is a fine example that has been brought up many times, manx, I wonder if the recent choices of Whitehurst/Kolb may even have a negative effect on the process, in the sense that it may have made some GMs more leery of parting with those 2nd/3rd rounders?

Another thing that comes to mind is that we can't really point to a bad personnel decision out of left field and claim that it's suddenly the standard (not claiming that you are attempting to do that, but I've seen others make that mistake). I think Charlie Whitehurst was a bit of a rare case, but that's just my opinion.

Read this article outlines the most recent backup QB trades that netted returns. It is not as rare as you think.

Matt Flynn the latest backup QB to find himself in high demand - Don Banks - SI.com

The Texans current QB Matt Schaub was acquired for 2 second round draft picks and they swapped their first round pick #8 for number #10.

I would say up until recently that trade went in Houston’s favor, Schaub was a 2 time pro bowler with TD–INT 130–84, passing yards 24,254, and passer rating 89.2.

 

[SB39]

How about Charlie Whitehurst? Drafted by the Chargers in the third round in 06 and traded to the Seahawks in 2010 for a 3rd round pick and a swap of seconds. Never threw a pass in anger for the Chargers and I think was a third stringer the whole time he was at the Chargers.


Charlie Whitehurst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not declaring sides, just pointing out that he pretty much fits the criteria.

That does not even remotely fit the criteria. San Diego gave up a 3rd and Whitehurst to move up 20 spots in the 2nd. That is hardly a team trading Whitehurst for a 2nd or 3rd round pick straight up, like so many in here think Mallett will fetch.

 

[Brady6]

That does not even remotely fit the criteria. San Diego gave up a 3rd and Whitehurst to move up 20 spots in the 2nd. That is hardly a team trading Whitehurst for a 2nd or 3rd round pick straight up, like so many in here think Mallett will fetch.

The Chargers did not give up a third and Whitehurst, they traded their second round pick #60 and Whitehurst to the Seahawks for the #40 pick and a third rounder. That to me is better than just a second rounder, the Chargers moved up 2/3 of the second round and got a third round pick on top of that.

But it you want exact criteria here is one – the Dolphins traded their second round pick 2005 to the Eagles for AJ Feeley.


If you want to go above and beyond, here are a couple – the Jaguars trade Rob Johnson to the Bills for their first and fourth round picks 1998. Matt Schaub was traded with the #10 pick 2007 to the Texans for the #8 pick in 2007, a second round pick in 2007, and a second round pick in 2008.

 

[Brady6]

I agree, Coach. Even if we don't make a trade in the offseason, Mallett wasn't necessarily a bad decision, considering the fact that he's at least held down the position of backup/scout team QB for cheap money.

I don't think it was a great move by any means, but we've seen plenty of 2nd/3rd/4th rounders not even keep their roster spots, so I personally don't have a problem with the selection myself.



While this is a fine example that has been brought up many times, manx, I wonder if the recent choices of Whitehurst/Kolb may even have a negative effect on the process, in the sense that it may have made some GMs more leery of parting with those 2nd/3rd rounders?

Another thing that comes to mind is that we can't really point to a bad personnel decision out of left field and claim that it's suddenly the standard (not claiming that you are attempting to do that, but I've seen others make that mistake). I think Charlie Whitehurst was a bit of a rare case, but that's just my opinion.

I think poster forget that Kolb was traded for a second round pick and Rodgers-Cromartie who was a first round pick by the Cardinals in 2008 and played very well in his first two seasons with them.

 

[Ring 6]

The Chargers did not give up a third and Whitehurst, they traded their second round pick #60 and Whitehurst to the Seahawks for the #40 pick and a third rounder. That to me is better than just a second rounder, the Chargers moved up 2/3 of the second round and got a third round pick on top of that.

But it you want exact criteria here is one – the Dolphins traded their second round pick 2005 to the Eagles for AJ Feeley.


If you want to go above and beyond, here are a couple – the Jaguars trade Rob Johnson to the Bills for their first and fourth round picks 1998. Matt Schaub was traded with the #10 pick 2007 to the Texans for the #8 pick in 2007, a second round pick in 2007, and a second round pick in 2008.

Having to throw in your 2nd in return for a 3rd to go to 40 is not equivalent to 33. Not by a longshot.

Feeley, Johnson and Schaub all played football in the NFL prior to being traded, so there is a reason why their value would rise, which makes them irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Ring 6]

I think poster forget that Kolb was traded for a second round pick and Rodgers-Cromartie who was a first round pick by the Cardinals in 2008 and played very well in his first two seasons with them.

If Mallett had been named his teams starter last year and then was injured after starting 5 games and 7 in his career to date, instead of throwing 4 passes in 3 years, then this example might mean something.

 

[Brady6]

Having to throw in your 2nd in return for a 3rd to go to 40 is not equivalent to 33. Not by a longshot.

Feeley, Johnson and Schaub all played football in the NFL prior to being traded, so there is a reason why their value would rise, which makes them irrelevant to this discussion.

The draft value chart has the gap between #60 and #40 as 200 points so that would mean to get there they would have had to give up their third round pick, so in that means essentially they netted two third round picks for Whitehurst. Third round picks are worth between 116 and 265 points so you could pair them and trade into the second round, which is worth 270 and 580 points.

Mallett plays football in the NFL too. If you are referring to their play prior to being traded, this is how it looked –

- Rob Johnson had thrown 35 career passes at the time the Bills traded for him. His stats were as follow – 25/35, 71.14% completions, 368 yards, 2 touchdowns, 3 interceptions.
- AJ Feeley had thrown 158 passes when the Dolphins traded for him. His stats were as follow – 96/168, 57.14% completions, 1154 yards, 8 touchdowns, 6 interceptions.
- Matt Schaub had thrown 161 passes when the Texans traded for him. His stats were as follow – 84/161, 52.17% completions, 1033 yards, 6 touchdowns, 6 interceptions.

I would hardly consider that play the reason they were traded, I am sure that practice, preseason and scouting had a lot more to do with it.

 

[Brady6]

If Mallett had been named his teams starter last year and then was injured after starting 5 games and 7 in his career to date, instead of throwing 4 passes in 3 years, then this example might mean something.

That is silly. Mallett hits the practice field 5 days a week, plays in the preseason, scouts can watch him and analyze him, just because he was the backup to Brady who does not come off the field does not mean he sucks and his trade value is nothing. Teams will be investing picks in QBs that have never even taken a preseason snap that are higher than a second round pick this May.

Basically all these players would have the same trade value as you believe Mallett has right now if they were selected in the last 3 drafts by the Patriots instead of their teams –

- Andy Dalton
- Nick Foles
- Colin Kaepernick
- Russell Wilson
- Mike Glennon

They would not be on the field either.