Patriots after veteran NFL QB

[RayClay]

I'll take talent over experience at 20-1.

Rohan is now the 4th QB on the Arizona Cardinals depth chart.

The point is how in God's green earth can anyone tell how Cassell will react in various situations when he hasn't been in various situations?

He is the greenest possible backup quarterback we could possibly have and it is obvious if he is one of our quarterbacks we need a veteran backup badly.:bricks:

 

[RayClay]

The point about Davey is some thought he was ready based on one fine NFLE season, a solid college career and some time backing up Brady.

Based on ?????????????????????? Cassell is ready to go.

We just feel it in our hearts.

 

[flutie2phelan]

I don't think that's how the braintrust sees it, Ray.
The hole-in-one with Brady must give them a lot of confidence in their QB-in-the-rough judgment.
Bringing in a journeyman vet QB to hold a clipboard ... and encourage Cassel ...
is a waste of a roster spot.

Especially when the 54th man you're going to have to let go ...
is as good as the one we're going to have let go at final cutdown.

 

[spacecrime]

The point about Davey is some thought he was ready based on one fine NFLE season, a solid college career and some time backing up Brady.

Based on ?????????????????????? Cassell is ready to go.

We just feel it in our hearts.

Did you watch the Miami game last year? See what Cassel did with third stringers against Miami's first string defense?


Regarding Davey, he looked awesome in NFLE, and we were all hyped, but in the following preseason he didn't look good at all. Davey is what soured us on a guy looking good in NFLE. Cassell looked good last preseason and damned good against Miami. Not sure how you could see that game and not think Cassell had done better than Rohan ever did.

This preseason will tell the Cassell story. Plenty of time to sign a FA QB in August or September if it looks like we need one. Depends more on what BB thinks of Bramlet (getting him the work as opposed to a vet in tc)

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... Depends more on what BB thinks of Bramlet (getting him the work as opposed to a vet in tc)

And/or Mortensen. Who knows?

Keeping the more promising of that duo on the P/S this year
leads to the possibility of
trading him off ... for someone who might see the field ... a few years hence.

Then start over seeking a Number Three.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The point about Davey is some thought he was ready based on one fine NFLE season, a solid college career and some time backing up Brady.

Based on ?????????????????????? Cassell is ready to go.

We just feel it in our hearts.

No, Cassel is a lot different than Rohan. Watching Rohan backing up Brady against NFL competition - even in the pre season - was almost painful. That's why Cassel and a 41 year old knocked Rohan off the rosterin TC last year.

For one thing, it's Cassel's pedigree. He would have started for most every other school in the NCAA, but he stuck it out with Pete at USC as a backup in a pro style offense - and ultimately got rewarded with us in the 7th...

It's also what we see with our eyes. He adapted and adjusted in pre season. He brought a third string offense back against Miami's first string D in week 17, and if BB didn't think he could do the job, don't you think he'd have brought in a vet by now to learn the playbook????????

Any vet he might bring in now is likely insurance that neither Bramlet or Mortenson impress in camp and basically a clipboard holder with perhaps a better foundation for running a scout team. As a #2 Cassel has a 14 month jump in understanding and running the system on his competition.

 

[RayClay]

I don't think that's how the braintrust sees it, Ray.
The hole-in-one with Brady must give them a lot of confidence in their QB-in-the-rough judgment.
Bringing in a journeyman vet QB to hold a clipboard ... and encourage Cassel ...
is a waste of a roster spot.

Especially when the 54th man you're going to have to let go ...
is as good as the one we're going to have let go at final cutdown.

I assume you're trying yo read the minds of the brain trust. I've known them to usually base judgements on performance rather than rolling the dice.

I certainly don't think it's even close to fair to compare Brady to Cassel. Though Brady was a low pick he had some tremendous performances with a major program. Brady was a proven winner and performer in college.

Cassell barely played in college. Certainly they both had top competition, but Brady has a track record, while Cassell has zero.

I think they might have a real find in Cassell. I don't know, though. Neither do you and neither does the team.

I'm sure he looks good in practice and in one game.

I personally don't see BB as a gambler.

Rohan Davey sucked. The point is, they took years of evaluation to find his problem and how he didn't fit into the system.

To think that a conservative, thorough talent evaluator like BB would chance throwing a season away because he didn't have a dependable backup to Brady is ridiculous.

To think he would decide that Cassell was invincible based on high school performance and one meaningless, (in the standings) game is absurd.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Well, the knock on him early in his career was that he wasn't a good teammate. I haven't heard anything about that though since he left Carolina. I don't think he's a great fit for this offense, but if Brady got hurt (God Forbid!) for an extended period, I'll take my chances with Collins over guys like Tommy Maddox and Jeff Blake. At least with Collins, the defense has to defend against the passing game.

Honestly, I don't expect him to be here. I think BBs idea of veteran leadership is more the Fiedler/Shane Matthews/Damon Huard type. Guys that have been around long enough to have seen everything and who are comfortable in a backup role.

I don't expect Collins to be here either. But, I respectfully disagree that he wouldn't be a good fit in the Pats offense. The Pats prefer the deep pass due to low risk/high reward. Collins actually had a good year last year with Oakland...

Collins 2005 ~ att: 565 ~ comp: 302 ~ yds: 3,759 ~ ypa: 6.7 ~ TD/INT: 20/12 ~ QB Rat: 77.3 ~ c%: 53.5 ~ TD%: 3.5 ~ INT%: 2.1

In 2005, only Brett Favre had more pass attempts than Collins.

Passer Rating favors a high comp%. QBs who throw deep more and throw more overall, tend to have lower QB ratings.

Collins ranked 6th in INT% (Brady ranked 15th).

Only 2 QBs got sacked more than Collins: Drew Bledsoe and David Carr.

With his numbers, I'm shocked that no other team has come calling for Collins. If Roethlisberger needs more time to recover and winds up on the PUP list, the Steelers would be a perfect fit for him.

Outside of Collins, IMO, the Pats would be better off to keep Cassel at #2 and keep a QB on the practice squad and free up a roster spot in the process. They can always pick up a veteran QB during the season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I see you started another thread because the thought of a #2 QB whose name you still can't spell has you so flustered you needed to vent.

The Patriots generally sign their veteran or potential backups in the spring so they can learn the playbook. Doug was signed last April 29th and still admitted it was a struggle getting it all down by the end of August. Training camp opens in a month.

You say Belichick wouldn't roll the dice and he bases his judgements on performance. That's true, but the performances he bases that judgement on once a player is on this roster are not what a guy did in college but what he does in practice and camps and preseason and regular season NFL games in this system. QB's who showed promise in college yet fail to produce in those situations once he drafts them go to the PS or IR. Usually followed by a stint in NFLE. Cassel (and it's 1 L) knocked a guy off the roster who had 3 years experience in this system and still could not run it. Not to mention knocking off a journeyman failure in Redman before TC even opened. Then they opted not to even send Matt to NFLE in 2006 because he and they were better served not risking injury and spending time with Tom and the coaches here in the off season. Makes no sense unless they felt he didn't need more college level playing time at this stage of his career. He will likely take the lions share of the snaps in pre season.

I think BB would have preferred if Doug had decided to stay for one more season, but he didn't. He knew it would be as the #3 which is a lot of work for virtually no playing time. It would be even more work for another vet to come in now for the essentially same opportunity even with the caveat that he could "compete" in camp against a guy who has had over a year with the team and the playbook he was just handed. I'm sure there are a couple of guys still out there who would jump at the chance to make an almost 7 figure salary to just that, and BB may yet sign one, I'm just not sure any one of them represents much value given their recent performance and/or injury histories. And there are a lot of teams with a lot more need for either any veteran presence or an experienced backup - it's so thin RAC is even hinting he may get Vinny up off the couch one more time to mentor Frye.

Collins still wants a starting job (and $$$) or a realistic shot at taking over one, and that is less likely here than most anywhere else aside from Indy (who is also in the market because Sorgi is battling shoulder problems). Maddoux is likely holding his breath hoping Cowher calls as camp approaches and he gets another shot at one of his his former jobs in Pittsburgh. Fiedler is talking to the Bucs who have no veteran depth behind a second year starter in Sims. And he was talking to the Giants before they signed Rob Johnson - teams are still waiting for the 35 year old Fiedler to be able to throw more than 35 yards without relapsing from his shoulder surgery. We went that route with Miller a few years ago and ended up with an expensive #3 running the scout team and Rohan in the #2 slot by default because the vet never was healthy enough to be a backup.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

If Pats were very uneasy with Cassel, they would already have a back-up vet. But if they bring in a vet now, it will strictly be somebody with no illusions of starting. That is a lower class of veteran, like the Vinny level.

 

[14thDragon]

If Brady were to go down for say 4-5 games due to injury. ( God forbid ) I would like to see Cassell sent in there to sink or swim. Let's see what the kid can do when the game is his to start. I think we might all be pleasantly surprised. He's got a great arm, been in the system for a year now and has shown BB enough to get drafted and stick around so far, they don't keep stiffs on the 53 man roster..... A vet I would like to see here is Feidler, not Collins!:rocker:

I can certainly agree with that.

The situation I would less then enthusased about having Cassel in there is if Brady takes a hit in 4th quarter with the game on the line, I do not know if Cassel has the experience to step it up that quickly in a game.

EDIT: Also as spacecrime pointed out. If Bramlett and Mortenson look as bad as they did in minicamp a third QB will have to be brought in regardless.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Nobody has discussed the idea that perhaps veteran QB's don't want to come here to RIDE THE BENCH! Maybe Bioli is having touble convincing anyone decent that they should come here and hold the clipboard. Mo Lewis might have implied this, but I have not seen this theory spoken about much.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

If the Pats want 3 QBs on the 53, Vinny T. would be a likely choice.

Based on what I've read about BB, it seems to me that he's big on NFL history to the point of being sentimental. Giving Flutie a chance to win a Ring and allowing him to make a dropkick in an NFL game for the first time since 1941, has strengthened my opinion about this. BB has a long history with Vinny and in a limited role he's certainly capable of filling out the depth chart. I wouldn't be surprised if BB wants to see Vinny get one last shot at a Ring and a chance to end his long career on a high note.

JMHO

 

[14thDragon]

Nobody has discussed the idea that perhaps veteran QB's don't want to come here to RIDE THE BENCH! Maybe Bioli is having touble convincing anyone decent that they should come here and hold the clipboard. Mo Lewis might have implied this, but I have not seen this theory spoken about much.

Possibly. I think at this point most of the good Vet QBs are taking the wait until TC and preseason approach. They really can not learn much more about an offense at this point then they can then. So why not wait and see if a starter goes down and a team wants a good replacement?

 

[RayClay]

There was some discussion of this before.

Many of us seem to feel that like the year Brady backed up Bledsoe, the team feels that Cassell is an adequate backup to Brady.

The concern would be if God forbid anything happens to Brady, who is the backup to Cassell should he falter or get injured himself.

My feeling was why not bring in a few veteran QBs who can come in during camp, become familiar with the system and the players, accept the fact that the team has no real need to keep them on the roster, and have the team enter the season with the knowledge that a few street FA veteran QBs are out there in case we need them.

So while I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple veteran QBs get a look over the summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see them cut before the season as well.

They had Damon Huard in case Brady didn't work out.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Alot of good back and forth. Mucho food for thought. I think the bottom line for me is that whomever the Pats sign, if and when they do, we probably will like the choice.

 

[Pats726]

Alot of good back and forth. Mucho food for thought. I think the bottom line for me is that whomever the Pats sign, if and when they do, we probably will like the choice.

I agree..we will like the choice..Do you think they may wait and see abot Cassal in TC and then bring somone in??

 

[Bostonian1962]

I agree..we will like the choice..Do you think they may wait and see abot Cassal in TC and then bring somone in??

They might. They may just go ahead, and do it before then to round off the squad. Time will tell.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Alot of good back and forth. Mucho food for thought. I think the bottom line for me is that whomever the Pats sign, if and when they do, we probably will like the choice.

Of course we'll like the choice... unlike most football fans we have the luxury of deferring to the better judgment of proven winners.

When you don't live in Boston, you realize what a luxury the "In Bill We Trust" slogan is. Most sports fans (you'll see it on their fan boards too,) are all about second-guessing and "they don't know what they're doing."

Just wanted to toss that in there, from the D.C. area, home of second-guessing and finger pointing.

PFnV

 

[Pats726]

They might. They may just go ahead, and do it before then to round off the squad. Time will tell.

I agree..although the 5 QBs in TC is not one BB likes..which I think is why they may NOT bring in a vet if at all till camp. Thenm they can evaluate not only Bramlett and Mortenson,,but also Cassal...Collins wants to be a one a BIT too much for here..undesrtandable..NOT a great fit..I think. VinnyT or Fiedler..or maybe Maddox..whoever..Iagree will be picked for the situation the Pats are in..