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OT: Bruins and Celtics - will they ever be relevant again

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by aabtec, May 23, 2007.

  1. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    With the Bruins stinking badly and the Celtics getting the 5th pick in the draft..will these teams ever be relevant again ?
  2. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    No, not in this forum. There are other forums on this messageboard where you might get the kind of discussion you're hoping to solicit.
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I doubt either of them will ever be a quality football team.
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    LOL. True. As to original poster's question. No. Not a chance in hell now. Check back in 5 years.
  5. Fantasic4x50x54x59x55

    Fantasic4x50x54x59x55 Rookie

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    Bruins way before the celtics..lottery broke my heart.
  6. mtbykr

    mtbykr Rookie

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    well Peter Chiarelli leaves the senators and comes to the bruins....now the senators are in the cup, not looking good :bricks:
  7. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Regarding our 2 winter (because they don't play in the spring) teams, 2 sayings come to mind:

    Shyte rolls downhill.

    The fish first rots from the head.

    As long as thier current ownership/management groups are in place, the Smelltics and Ruins will never see even a conference championship series.
  8. desi-patsfan

    desi-patsfan Rookie

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    Actually i still think the Celts will be better faster than the Bruins. Atleast the celtics have some nice young players. They actually have players that most people like and think can do well. The bruins first line is mostly compared to good teams 3rd line and bad teams 2nd line.
  9. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    He helped build the team that is in the cup finals!

    Who would've thought the Patriots would be relevant when Tom Brady buckled his chinstrap on that fateful day in 2001 against the Jets! Thank You Mo Lewis!:)
  10. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    someone needs a nap.
  11. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    Are you crazy? Where did you read comparing the B's 1st line to most team's 3rd line? If Tuuka Rask comes as promised, you will see a huge change in the Bruins within the next 2 years!
  12. jman924

    jman924 Rookie

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    No
    ten characters
  13. Double G

    Double G Rookie

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    The Bruins haven't been relevant since the early 1990's; they totally blew it trading away Thorton. Tried to make up for it by throwing money around in the off season this past year and it did not work.

    The Celtics are cursed, plain and simple. This is the basketball God's way of leveling off the playing field, those 16 championships came with a price.

    Basketball is a farce, the lottery is an absolute joke. All the lottery did was ensure two terrible teams will remain so now, both teams got screwed royally, going from 1 and 2 with the ability to add a franchise player to 4 and 5, a complete and utter embarassment for sport that is a laughing stock to being with.

    I could give two ****s about either sport, the playoffs are almost as drawn out as the regular season.

    Couldn't tell you who was even in the semi finals or finals of either playoff, just found out the Pistons, they of the 79 points per game, are probably going back to the finals to get smoked by San Antonio, also just found out the Senators (don't they play in Washington.............maybe not, different sport, different era) and the ducks, coyotes, hens, chickens, racoons are the other finalist...................when the hell did columbus Ohio get a friggin team, who's next, Bangor Maine?
  14. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing I heard last night that is relevant is that looking back to the glory days of the C's and how long they have stunk should make us all appreciate the run these Pats (and even the Sox) are on. It can end quickly and stay bad for a long time.
  15. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    They didn't blow it trading away Thornton, they blew it getting the return they did. Blame their GM, who was only comfortable with about 5 other GMs and didn't really shop him to create a bidding war. They actually blew it by not anticipating the salary rollback, thinking the creation of a cap would leave them with tons of money to spend for elite players who other, cap-strapped teams could not sign. Instead, they lost guys like Brian Rolston, Mike Knuble, and Michael Nylander and were forced to replace them with aging junk (or just junk) like Brian Leetch, Brad Isbister, and Alexei Zhamnov. Raycroft regressed and never became the elite #1 goaltender he looked like in his Calder-winning year. They also gave Glen Murray $4M to make Joe happy, which didn't work out too well. Murray's a good garbage-collecting goal scorer (and at this point, besides maybe Sturm, the only one they have), but that money was way too much for him.

    Throwing money around last offseason was not a bad idea. Zdeno Chara is a stud as a shutdown defenseman. The problem is that he is asked to do way too much; he's not going to put up 75 points for you, but if tasked with shutting down any forward in the world, he can do it; he would make Jagr constantly irrelevant during Rangers games. That said, probably would want more for $7.5M, but it's not as bad as some would say. If given the chance to be a little more physical by Dave Lewis, he'd be awesome (actually, if Lewis was fired, this team would probably be alot better... maybe then Phil Kessel would play more than Mark Mowers on any given night). He's still a true #1 defenseman, and there aren't too many of those.

    The other guy they threw money at was Marc Savard ($5.1M), and most people agree that getting him for that change was a steal. Savard is a better pivot than Thornton (note I said better pivot, not a better player) and the best passer I've seen since Adam Oates. Savard's the best player on the team and was worth every penny (and more).

    That said, the Bruins have some good young talent. Bergeron is still one of the best young two-way centers in the league, and will probably be a more talented Chris Drury at his peak. Phil Kessel will be a world-beater sooner rather than later (a Mike Modano with a better shot who can also play wing, rated 6th best prospect in the world by hockeysfuture.com), but he is only 19 still and has alot of growing to do and despite that was still the Bruins best forward for the last month and a half or so of the season. Tuukka Rask looks like a future top 5 goaltender (he's rated as the 7th best prospect in the world and the best goaltender by hockeysfuture.com), and Hannu Toivonen could be a late bloomer like two guys his skill set resembles quite a bit, Jean-Sebastien Giguere and Ryan Miller. Brad Marchand and Milan Lucic, two picks last year, played extremely well in the Q and W respectively this year, Lucic leading his team to a Memorial Cup berth and being the type of gritty, skilled power forward that could remind some of Terry O'Reilly. Petr Kalus and David Krejci both looked very good in Providence this year and in their limited time with the Big B's, and Matt Lashoff and Mark Stuart did as well (Stuart will likely be the #4 D or so next year for Boston). With the 8th overall pick this year, they should be able to pick up a guy like Logan Couture or Sam Gagner who will add to this stable (or maybe Alexei Cherepanov, though the lack of a Russian transfer agreement makes any pick there risky).

    The Bruins aren't screwed. They have a good stable of prospects. But they'll be technically irrelevant for a couple more years until these guys develop. By that time, Chara and Savard will still be in their primes.
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  16. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Great post, PT. Do you also post on HF.com's Bruins page?

    I would be more confident if Chiapet and Lewis actually cared about toughness from their defense, and size and grit from their forwards. Too many small, soft right-handed shots up front.

    Looking forward to reading your take on the Smelltics.
  17. PatsMyBoyz!

    PatsMyBoyz! Rookie

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    What he said,exactly. That was an excellent read,thank you.
  18. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic Rookie

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    The key component in any good hockey team is a great goalie. The Bruins haven't even had a GOOD goalie since Lemelin. Regarding this years team, IMO they had no goalie, and only Chara on D. The other 5 defensemen aren't even worthy NHL players. But the biggest problem with that team is the coach. Lewis is terrible!! Never tape to tape passes, always chasing the puck, no heart or intensity what so ever. What happened to Bergeron? I felt like (and still do) he was gonna be another yzerman. Didn't happen!! It's almost as if they don't want to play for the guy. It's obvious if they have no goalie and no D, they are gonna suck, but I think that even if they strengthen those areas, they'll still suck because the coach is terrible.

    I think the bruins will get better before the celtics though, because I have faith in the bruins GM. And Ainge has been getting a freebie for too long. and the shamrock has no more luck. Hope I'm wrong.
  19. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    Why do the Pats & Sox rule New England?

    1. Because those are sports people can relate to. Everybody has played football and baseball. Basketball, too, for that matter, but I'll get to that in point #3.

    2. The Pats & the Sox give fans their money's worth year in and year out.
    Last edited: May 23, 2007
  20. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Point #3 you say?
  21. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

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    What are Celtics, and by Bruins, do you mean from UCLA.
  22. godef

    godef Rookie

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    What do the UCLA Bruins and the Cincinnati Celts have to do with this messageboard?
  23. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    Hockey's pretty popular around NE if you haven't noticed. Ever been to the Hockey East finals, BeanPot tourney, or even Massachusett's High School Elite 8 tournament. Bruins were a pretty hot ticket even in the Celtic's heyday! Both franchises will find their way to the top of the hill again. How long! That's the question?
  24. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Whoa, whoa, whoa.

    Okay, okay, let me hit those points one at a time sir.

    1) No good goalie since Lemelin? Andy Moog might have a bone to pick with you, and Lord Byron Dafoe was quite good until contract squabbles got in the way of him actually playing. Raycroft was a Calder winner, but it looks like the B's passed him off on the Leafs for a potential elite goaltender in one of the greatest trade coups I've seen in awhile. Thomas really is not bad at all, just overworked; the Bruins have bigger problems than goaltending, especially with Rask and Toivonen in the wings. I'm a goaltender myself and always keep an eye on goalies, and I truly believe Toivonen will follow a similar career path to J.S. Giguere, who was traded twice (for Trevor Kidd, then a 2nd round pick) before he broke out around his 25th or 26th birthday (hopefully Hannu doesn't get traded, though).

    2) No defensemen besides Chara? Well, Andrew Ference played a signficant role as a #4-5 on a Stanley Cup Finals team the year before the lockout, and, despite being undersized, is still a good player. Aaron Ward was the #2 on last year's Hurricanes squad that won the Cup, and is still amongst the best shot blockers in the league, though he's really more of a #3-4. Andrew Alberts is a great #5-6, though he is a bit of a liability if called on to do too much as the Bruins did. He hits hard and is willing to fight (even if he's not much of a brawler), and is pretty defensively responsible, though limited offensively and will never have a shot. Dennis Wideman could still be a good offensive defenseman, though I'm not a huge fan of his skating ability and I think the Blues stole Boyes. Bobby Allen's a good AHLer, and Jason York needs to retire. But Lashoff and Stuart will be good NHL players; Lashoff's more offensively oriented while Stuart is a (very) poor man's Scott Stevens. The Bruins do need a true #2 defenseman, preferably with some offensive ability, to stick with Chara, but they have alot more holes to fill than just that, especially with their forwards.

    3) Bergeron's not Yzerman yet? Come on, man, he hasn't even been legal for a year yet! You can't expect the world of this guy, not yet. He's on a horrendous team and had to assume the mantle of the savior of the Bruins after Joe was traded. That's alot of expectation on a 21 year old! Luckily for him, he's settled more into the second center role with Savard's ascendance (and second future superstar role with Kessel's arrival) and that's where a guy like him shines (see Chris Drury, his equivalent in player type, though Bergeron is slightly more skilled).

    Listen, this Bruins team is pretty bad. Sure, they have a stable of good prospects and some good players. The coaching is bad, I'll agree with you there. But at the same time, for the most part, the team is filled with what I term "guys" (or JAGs in football terms). This team runs maybe a line and a half deep (Savard, Murray, Kessel, Bergeron, Sturm), and on defense maybe a pairing deep (Chara, Ward) before you get into guys who would be easily replaceable by any number of players across the league (Thomas is purely average even though I love the guy... but Rask and Toivonen should develop enough to hold down that fort in a couple years). Sure, there are specialist players (Axelsson as the checking forward, Wideman as the offensive defenseman), but those guys are either not that good (Wideman) or pure luxuries (Axe) that need to be replaced with actual players. Sure, you need guys and luxuries on any team that plans to run deep into the playoffs, but this team needs to focus on quitting the bottom feeding first. I think that will take a few years, but luckily the expensive stars (barring Murray) are still relatively young and will be around and good when the youngsters start to hit their strides. I can see this team coming together within the next 3-5 years to become a serious contender led by a core of Savard, Kessel, Bergeron, Chara, and Rask.

    Oh, and ADPF, just about every New England kid plays hockey at some point in their life. As a playing sport, it's far more popular than basketball in the northeast (except maybe NYC and Long Island, but they're usually too pansy for hockey anyways).
    Last edited: May 24, 2007
  25. Iverson

    Iverson Rookie

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    Even if the B's get better, who is going to care? The NHL is becoming less relevant by the minute. They cut off the conference finals in OT last weekend to give you a full hour of a horse racing pregame show! When horses walking around a track is preempting your conference finals, that is a baaaaaaad sign. The NHL is off ESPN and now on OLN and Vs. I wouldn't even be surprised if the NHL folds within the next 20 years.

    Maybe the Ottawa vs Anaheim Stanley Cup Finals will capture the country's imagination. :D
  26. Iverson

    Iverson Rookie

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    Hockey is more popular as a playing sport?! Are you talking about northeast Finland?
  27. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Assuming you mean the Celtics heyday of the 80's (and not the 60's) then, yes, the Bruins were popular too - because they had a few darn good years in there themselves. They made the Stanley Cup finals twice in that period, not too shabby.
  28. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    I'd be surprised, because the NHL is making a good chunk of money and the cap is rising every year despite a national television contract. But please, continue to speak out of your ass.

    And I'd say organized hockey has more players in the northeast and northern midwest/Mountain west than organized basketball does. In Boston, high school hockey receives as much if not more attention than football, and much more than basketball, while college hockey is the king.

    You can't play hockey in a park, but many hockey players started on a pond anyways. Sure, it's a relatively small region of the country, but hockey is continuing to grow in California, Texas, and a team from Alabama even made the NCAAs this year (though most of their players are Canadian).
  29. Greg

    Greg Rookie

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    This a topic I discuss a lot with my roommate. He is a die hard Bruins fan and I am a die hard Celtics fan.

    I think Both teams will be relevant in the near future. But, I think the Celtics could be relevant as soon as next year. The Celtics have a very young and deep team. If it wasnt for all the injuries, I think they would have made the playoffs last year. Add the fifth pick and/or a trade for an established player. Then the Celtics could be a strong playoff team in the weak eastern conference.

    IMO, The Bruins are a littler farther off. The Bruins could be really good if they found a top tier Goalie. Rask might be that guy but I think he is still a year or two away.
  30. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    No..not for awhile...the bruins have been horrible for a long time and it will stay that way... The Celts as well are NOT relevent..and will not be for awhile. Ainge is not the one to lead them..taking their best team in awhile and dismantling it. bright move danny boy..you can't even get to that point now can you!!
    That team needed a big man and a point guard..in a few years, they could have IF he was so bright..but instead..dismantle it all lie about what you are doing and play in dung the basement for years doing nothing...Not happening as long as he is in the org..

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