Opinion on Dane Fletcher?

[MaineMan]

Really fine scouting on Fletcher in this thread.

Seems to me that, with Fletcher's continued development, the Pats could potentially have three very good ILBs for next season, albeit with somewhat different strengths - Spikes, Mayo and Fletcher. Mayo and Fletcher also seem like they can play OLB pretty well in many respects, though that may not be their optimal usage. Sounds like a pretty good situation to have, especially if the proportion of 3-4 sets is to have the potential to increase in 2012. I can forsee situations in which the opposing OG turns to his QB at the LoS and asks, "Who's the Mike?!" - to which the QB replies, "Ummmmmmm....." (Flag. Delay of game.)

In addition, the Pats have unknown potential yet at OLB/Elephant/4-3 DE in Cunningham and Markell Carter (on top of Andre Carter and Anderson).

The relative weakness of the DBs and relative lack of young DL "heavies" could make free agency as well as the draft very interesting this offseason.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

In the late 60s or early 70s a DT from Tufts played on the Patriots for 2 years.
Go Jumbos!

 

[satz]

I think with fletcher , mayo and guyton we will have a good core for 4-3 when we go back. During times due to injury we saw Ninocovich at ILB in 3rd down.

Ninocovich has been more impresive from being a DE in colleage to spl teamer in miami.He was a weakside OLB in 3-4 last year and now we see him as 3-4 OLB, ILB , DE in 4-3 and a very good Sam 4-3 LB.



I was never sold on Spikes. He is good player just not in space.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I see a lot of people talking about Fletcher as an ILB but feel he needs to be on the field every single down...he's that good. Better than Ninkovich. If we continue this hybrid style of defence, which I think we will, we will continue this 33 style personnel with a 42 look and one OLB in two-point on the line and, if we do, I think Fletcher needs to be the guy on the edge.

I think on 1st down you need Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher all on the field at once, with spikes in the middle.

Then I think in obvious passing situations or where you feel the other team likes to pass, you rotate Fletcher to the middle and bring Ninkovich back onto the edge. It's going to depend on how the Pats draft this year too...it's so difficult to judge whether they stay with what we're seeing or we revert back. I say we stick with the 3-3-5 personnel...it's so versatile and you can go into almost any other formation from it.

Either way, his versatility is fun to play with...and if Spikes goes down we know we can put him in the middle and have Ninkovich on the outside. I think we have one of the better LB corps when fully healthy, and it will develop into one of the best int he future.

If Dowling can stay healthy, him Arrington and McCourty (who I do believe is just suffering from a sophomore slump) give you young talent and promise at corner too...you just need that free safety (gutted Kenny Vaccaro didn't declare this year)...then you have Chung with Ihedigbo (who is a solid backup in my eyes) backing him up there. I think Barrett will be a suitable backup at FS...he has upside and was gutted he got hurt.

This defence has nice young pieces...and the development of players like Love on the D Line make you feel happy with the direction that this defence is going in...despite the lapse in terms of giving up yards.My only concern is the D Line as it's not the youngest...and we need a young edge rusher.

 

[BlueThunder]

Patsfanken- Could you be a bit more detailed on the ILB reads.....

You oversimplified it

 

[patfanken]

In the late 60s or early 70s a DT from Tufts played on the Patriots for 2 years.
Go Jumbos!

No I don't think so PWP, that was my era, and I would have remembered....I think. However now that you mention it you might be thinking of a DLman from Tufts who played a couple of years with the USFL for the Boston Breakers in the late 80's

I remember the kid because a few years later when I was still playing tag football for he Celtics FO. Doug Flutie and his brother got together a team and this kid played on it. I had to block him on his pass rush a few times, and IIRC, he hurt me...badly. He was down around 265 then and very guick. He made me look like Todd Rucci on a bad day.

Just as an aside because its late and I'm whi'stfull and in a story telling mood., Flutie put together a team that included his brother and a bunch of former BC and other college guys in their 20's . We were made up of the Celtics FO personnel, and friends of Jan Volk the C's GM, mostly in our early 40's. We had 2 ringers ourselves in Randy Vataha and Tim Fox, but they were almost as old as I was. We made it a game for 3 quarters

Now that I think about it, we also once played a game against the Pats FO, under the lights in Foxboro at the old stadium. Pretty cool at the time.

 

[supafly]

I see a lot of people talking about Fletcher as an ILB but feel he needs to be on the field every single down...he's that good. Better than Ninkovich. If we continue this hybrid style of defence, which I think we will, we will continue this 33 style personnel with a 42 look and one OLB in two-point on the line and, if we do, I think Fletcher needs to be the guy on the edge.

I think on 1st down you need Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher all on the field at once, with spikes in the middle.

Then I think in obvious passing situations or where you feel the other team likes to pass, you rotate Fletcher to the middle and bring Ninkovich back onto the edge. It's going to depend on how the Pats draft this year too...it's so difficult to judge whether they stay with what we're seeing or we revert back. I say we stick with the 3-3-5 personnel...it's so versatile and you can go into almost any other formation from it.

Either way, his versatility is fun to play with...and if Spikes goes down we know we can put him in the middle and have Ninkovich on the outside. I think we have one of the better LB corps when fully healthy, and it will develop into one of the best int he future.

If Dowling can stay healthy, him Arrington and McCourty (who I do believe is just suffering from a sophomore slump) give you young talent and promise at corner too...you just need that free safety (gutted Kenny Vaccaro didn't declare this year)...then you have Chung with Ihedigbo (who is a solid backup in my eyes) backing him up there. I think Barrett will be a suitable backup at FS...he has upside and was gutted he got hurt.

This defence has nice young pieces...and the development of players like Love on the D Line make you feel happy with the direction that this defence is going in...despite the lapse in terms of giving up yards.My only concern is the D Line as it's not the youngest...and we need a young edge rusher.

Very good thoughts. I still believe that this defense is only a player or two from really turning the unit around. Of course I also thought this in the beginning of the season too (August), but just did not expect such horrid play/so many changes in the secondary. On top of that, we've had a bad spell of injuries, and I obviously did not see the multiple steps back factor in McCourty either.

I think that there are a couple/few positions that will benefit from having a key free agent signing or mid-level cut added to the mix, and once again we will go back to the draft to try and find those one or two players that can make a difference. A serious positive is that once again, we hold 4 pretty high picks with two 1st's and two 2nd's, and that is good ammunition to try and develop different options.

Obviously I am still looking forward to truly seeing if/what Dowling can offer too, as he should not be forgotten about. While we're at it, neither should Jermaine Cunningham, who is still an unknown wildcard factor in my eyes. I think the addition of Carter this yr, + the change in scheme really put Cunningham's growth in a bad place, but I also don't think that we should be giving up on him yet either.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Very good thoughts. I still believe that this defense is only a player or two from really turning the unit around. Of course I also thought this in the beginning of the season too (August), but just did not expect such horrid play/so many changes in the secondary. On top of that, we've had a bad spell of injuries, and I obviously did not see the multiple steps back factor in McCourty either.

I think that there are a couple/few positions that will benefit from having a key free agent signing or mid-level cut added to the mix, and once again we will go back to the draft to try and find those one or two players that can make a difference. A serious positive is that once again, we hold 4 pretty high picks with two 1st's and two 2nd's, and that is good ammunition to try and develop different options.

Obviously I am still looking forward to truly seeing if/what Dowling can offer too, as he should not be forgotten about. While we're at it, neither should Jermaine Cunningham, who is still an unknown wildcard factor in my eyes. I think the addition of Carter this yr, + the change in scheme really put Cunningham's growth in a bad place, but I also don't think that we should be giving up on him yet either.

It's a mixture of the fact we have had a very banged up unit and we got rid of veterans who, in this situation, would have helped us get over it...I think the Pats got it right on Sanders however, had they foreseen Bodden and Dowling getting hurt and cutting/IR-ing the other, along with McCourty's slump, Barrett going down and Chung missing considerable time, of course they wouldn't have ditched him. He has lost a step though...he has done very little in Atlanta...and Page did even less at the Eagles before they let him go. Merriweather doesn't even need reminding people of.

You look at the secondary and if McCourty comes back from his slump, I think he'll become our second guy behind Dowling..and we'll have two excellent corners at the #1 and #2 spots. I think Dowling when healthy will be the better guy...he'll play man superbly...he did in college and he showed signs of it when he got on the field early on. Arrington has been a terrific fill-in but he's your 3rd guy...in the slot. I think they will need to aquire one more corner whether it be in the draft or FA (I won't suggest a rnames as I don't really think about free agents and potential draftees until the Superbowl is over).

The take a look at the Linebacker corps which we've discussed...I feel our top 3 are Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher. If that's the case, none of them have been fit for one game at all this year together...we may get lucky and see Spikes this week...but who knows. If they are all healthy at once wit Ninko there too that's an excellent defence.

At safety I will take Chung and Ihedigbo as our strong safeties, Barrett in there with a veteran at Free until next year when the safety class is a lot better...and the guy I LOVE, Vaccaro, should be declaring I have a man crush on this guy..he's the next big thing imo and would be a beast with Chung. I'd keep Sterling Moore well in the rotation...I think he has a lot of upside and potential to develop...and use Ventrone as we have done all year haha

D Line...we need a quicker end. Anderson could give us another good couple of years as a situational rusher, but Carter may not return with his quad injury (although he's a workout warrior so I'm optimistic we will get him for one more year and get some production)...I want s=to see us draft a speed end and maybe even two, with a lightly heavier anchor to counter against the run.

So yes, we really are a couple of draft picks away from a very good defence. The injuries and constant turnaround on defence have killed us as a unit...no one has gelled well enough because of it. I expect the Pats will make a couple of FA pick-ups and a trade or two as well...so this could be dealt with quite easily this off season.

I think people underrate the potential of this defence once all the pieces are together at once and I think people may eat their words about Belichick's drafting strategies in two eyars time, when we have one of the better young defences in the league and we have one of the more promising offenses too...on that, I feel what Belichick is doing there is great...offensive line should be shored up for years, with Mallett in succession, some young running backs...all we need is a receiver! How Belichick is rebuilding this team is genius, and setting us up to be competitive for more years to come...rather than falling off into nothing which so many dominant teams do.

But hey, we're Pats fans, and too irrational when things aren't going 100% perfectly to think straight That comes with years of dominance unfortunately.

 

[supafly]

I agree very much that the potential for a young and promising defense may force a lot of people to eat their words regarding the drafting strategies of Belichick. He has obviously failed in some areas, but he has also kept this team in future contention on both sides of the ball very nicely too, and I believe that his failures are overstated to some degree.

I like the idea of keeping Ihedigbo around, although maybe not as a starter. I also like the idea of seeing Sterling Moore possibly develop into some type of role player. The only place where I do not agree, is the subject of Ventrone. What is it about Ventrone that some posters see such upside and potential? Is it the special teams contributions? Or do you feel as though he is actually a decent role playing safety in the budding process?

 

[UK_Pat37]

I agree very much that the potential for a young and promising defense may force a lot of people to eat their words regarding the drafting strategies of Belichick. He has obviously failed in some areas, but he has also kept this team in future contention on both sides of the ball very nicely too, and I believe that his failures are overstated to some degree.

I like the idea of keeping Ihedigbo around, although maybe not as a starter. I also like the idea of seeing Sterling Moore possibly develop into some type of role player. The only place where I do not agree, is the subject of Ventrone. What is it about Ventrone that some posters see such upside and potential? Is it the special teams contributions? Or do you feel as though he is actually a decent role playing safety in the budding process?

Agreed on Ihedigbo...I see him backing up Chung. I think he's an excellent tackler, not the greatest in coverage but can do a 'solid' job. The Ventrone comment was more of a joke really...I think he's valuable on the practice squad as he knows the system so well...but he's a last resort...he's only been used as much as he has this year because of injuries and the longer he's on the p-squad the better.

I see some degree of talent as a last resort fill-in...but he won't develop into a bigger role I don't think. But I would keep him around on the p-squad for sure in case things turn sour...he's talented enough as a stop-gap if someone goes down for a game and we need some help.

 

[Calciumee]

Think he is a great player!

Just look at his blitzes last week! Perfectly timed!

 

[p8ryts]

I want to know what others think of him? To me, he seems like he has by far the best instincts of any of our LBs and makes some big plays, especially behind the line of scrimmage. He's one of our best D players and he's a free agent. My Xs & Os knowledge is not good so I can't tell exactly if he's as good as he looks to me or am I just seeing a couple of his big plays and think he's better than he actually is?

Thoughts?

Tedy Bruschi reincarnated

 

[strngplyr]

Too slow. Can't tackle. Can't cover.

 

[State]

His lack of foot speed was really highlighted today. But he is a versatile, smart, hard-nosed player.

Did you see the adjustment they made putting him on the line with a hand down, only to have him drop back in pass coverage? That was a nice wrinkle.

But my evaluation of him has to be colored with today's game where speedy guys made him look out of step. But his tackling is much better than Guyton's.

It's too bad we can't have the two players morphed into one.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

His lack of foot speed was really highlighted today. But he is a versatile, smart, hard-nosed player.

Did you see the adjustment they made putting him on the line with a hand down, only to have him drop back in pass coverage? That was a nice wrinkle.

But my evaluation of him has to be colored with today's game where speedy guys made him look out of step. But his tackling is much better than Guyton's.

It's too bad we can't have the two players morphed into one.

Really? You guys thought he was slow? He was matched up in man against CJ Spiller, who ran a 4.28 at the combine. Against most other TEs and RBs, he's done just fine. He's an ascending player, and having him and Spikes on the field for the playoffs will help immensely.

 

[crowell33]

Tedy Bruschi reincarnated

Agreed. I love Fletcher at OLB. Team is clearly better with him on the field, and yes, he does remind me of Tedy out there.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Far from slow...don't know where that one came from. He also ran a faster 40 time coming out than Ninkovich did.

Speed isn't an issue. If anything, due to the amount of time he has missed, he may not be as instinctive as other players which could in turn make him look a little slower than the others...but once he gets full comfortable this guy will tear it up.

Today told me one thing...the future is what I said on one of my previous posts...Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher with Fletcher rotating inside on obvious passing downs and bring Ninkovich in on the edge if needed.

 

[stcjones]

I want to know what others think of him? To me, he seems like he has by far the best instincts of any of our LBs and makes some big plays, especially behind the line of scrimmage. He's one of our best D players and he's a free agent. My Xs & Os knowledge is not good so I can't tell exactly if he's as good as he looks to me or am I just seeing a couple of his big plays and think he's better than he actually is?

Thoughts?

I like Fletch alot....made some mistakes this day but always has the motor running...doesn't take plays off...and made 2 huge tackles (one on spiller where he got his arm around O lineman and hauled Spiller down.....) I think he has a good future here

 

[bpcats]

He got exposed a little bit by trying to cover their WR's out of the slot and then trying to cover CJ Spiller.

Considering this is his first year at MLB he is not doing too bad. The injury to his thumb that forced him to sit out for 6 weeks really slowed down his development and momentum that he was gaining through the preseason.


I don't know if he would ever crack the starting on a normal basis, but it seems that Bill is very good at designing ways to use him.

He looks a lot more comfortable playing out in space than he did towards last year.

 

[Garbanza]

I want to know what others think of him? To me, he seems like he has by far the best instincts of any of our LBs and makes some big plays, especially behind the line of scrimmage. He's one of our best D players and he's a free agent. My Xs & Os knowledge is not good so I can't tell exactly if he's as good as he looks to me or am I just seeing a couple of his big plays and think he's better than he actually is?

Thoughts?

LOL! Did you watch this past Sunday's game? HE WAS AWFUL. Yet, not nearly as awful at Guyton....if that's saying anything.