Opinion on Dane Fletcher?

[ewg_gestalt]

Something left out of the comments so far—during one of the preseason games, the coaches gave Fletcher "green dot" duties, so he was responsible for signal calling on the field. I think that says a lot about how quickly Fletcher has moved up the ranks in the coaches' eyes—going from UDFA to "Big Four" special teamer to becoming an every-down player in less than two seasons.

 

[DarrylS]

UDFA's from small schools who crack the starting lineup in the NFL, always provide hope to all those kids out there who believe someday they will suit up on the gridiron.

Dane Fletcher is a great story...

 

[Patriot 37]

Isn't the fact they call so many blitzes for him impressive, given that he was a free agent and in his second year? That shows the trust the coaching staff has in him. If he guesses wrong, they turn into big running plays for the other team. Those plays remind me of Bruschi. I also think the fact that he times so many of them so perfectly and shoots the right hole so often show his instincts. I see lots of LBs pick the wrong whole.

Spikes is very instinctive as well but he does not seem to be as quick as Fletcher or maybe it's just me. Regarding him being a free agent, I meant he was signed as one and not that he's one at year's end. I think we have him through 2012.

You are right Spikes isn't as quick and terrible in coverage. Fletcher does a great job blitzing from the inside (Spikes does this well as also). I was saying that sitting back a made the right read and taking on the blocker and making tackles (which is the key to ILB) Spikes is better.

Fletcher was a DE is college and is still learning he is a better athelete than Spikes and has more upside so I'd like him to continue get reps, but I rather have a healthy Spikes right now.

Anyway at least Guyton not in there.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

In a galaxy far away and long, long ago the Pats once drafted a hands down DE and spent a couple quiet years converting him into a hands up ILB where "suddenly" he emerged as a star. I watched Dane at summer camp his 1st season and could see that his attitude and energy made him special enough to keep.

Study hard, work hard and learn well, Grasshopper.

 

[Froob]

He was an end in college and his burst/timing shows this. I wouldn't call his big plays instinct as most of those are run or pass blitzes that are being called for him. That said, to be able to time those effectively is a real art form. He plays with tremendous leverage, understands angles, and has pretty good vision when scraping for a career edge player.

He still needs to learn a few nuances in man coverage, but his zone is good, and he displays rare hip fluidity for a converted end. The other thing he's missing is explosion into his drops (see defensive weakness when he is the mike in a tampa-2), but he has the strength to learn these things. He's got the tools to be great in coverage, and something I think we will see him progress in as things move forward.

He is an excellent football player that is still learning how to play linebacker. The fact that the coaches are scheming for him speaks volumes. While he is still incomplete as a product, the fact that he is where he is after such a drastic conversion is impressive. Fletcher is going to be a very nice player, ultimately settling somewhere in the upper-mid tier of starting ILB's. He also brings a nice skillset to the position that enables a lot of blitzing which most career linebackers don't have an innate feel for.

I'm really excited about this linebacker corps when Spikes is healthy. Arguably the best young group in the NFL.

I too am excited to see him play more and progress but I think its way too early to call him an excellent football player. He would be starting if he was that good in my opinion. Hopefully he becomes the next bruschi. Love his instincts. How's spikes been this season? Ive missed like half the season.

 

[Dessalines]

He was an end in college and his burst/timing shows this. I wouldn't call his big plays instinct as most of those are run or pass blitzes that are being called for him. That said, to be able to time those effectively is a real art form. He plays with tremendous leverage, understands angles, and has pretty good vision when scraping for a career edge player.

He still needs to learn a few nuances in man coverage, but his zone is good, and he displays rare hip fluidity for a converted end. The other thing he's missing is explosion into his drops (see defensive weakness when he is the mike in a tampa-2), but he has the strength to learn these things. He's got the tools to be great in coverage, and something I think we will see him progress in as things move forward.

He is an excellent football player that is still learning how to play linebacker. The fact that the coaches are scheming for him speaks volumes. While he is still incomplete as a product, the fact that he is where he is after such a drastic conversion is impressive. Fletcher is going to be a very nice player, ultimately settling somewhere in the upper-mid tier of starting ILB's. He also brings a nice skillset to the position that enables a lot of blitzing which most career linebackers don't have an innate feel for.

I'm really excited about this linebacker corps when Spikes is healthy. Arguably the best young group in the NFL.

Sound like Bruschi's development from pass rushing DE in college to LB for the PATS. Fletcher could very well be the same kind of project player. I'm liking it. I have liked Fletcher from the first day he was on the field. The guy plays heads up. "He gets it"....

 

[ctpatsfan77]

FWIW, here were the #s from his Pro Day:

Dates: 03/16/10
Height: 6015
Weight: 250
40 Yrd Dash: 4.61
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 09'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.35
3-Cone Drill: 6.93

And, just for perspective, Connor Barwin's Combine #s.

Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6035
Weight: 256
40 Yrd Dash: 4.59 (4.47 at Pro Day)
20 Yrd Dash: 2.68
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 40 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.18
3-Cone Drill: 6.87

 

[patfanken]

Sound like Bruschi's development from pass rushing DE in college to LB for the PATS. Fletcher could very well be the same kind of project player. I'm liking it. I have liked Fletcher from the first day he was on the field. The guy plays heads up. "He gets it"....

I know that people are very happy with Fletcher. Personally I think he will eventually surpass Spikes as the primary rush LB because of his speed, inate coverage instincts and "burst".

What I don't think people get is how remarkable his progression has gone from a college DE to an INSIDE LB. We are keenly aware of the difficulty of the transition of college DE's attempting to make the move to 3-4 OLB. Its not easy and it often takes 3-4 years before a success like Vrabel happens. But the move from DE to ILB is even more harrowing. The view of the game is soooo much different from the inside than it is if you are playing at the the end of the LOS.

I have some experience in this because I transitioned in college from being a 200 lb NT in a 3-4 to the Mike in a 4-3. After college I spent 2 years as an OLB (mostly as a Will), before finally switching back to the middle of the field as a slightly better than camp fodder SS.

Moving from the edge to the middle of the field is like playing on an entirely different field. The game becomes SOOOO much more complex. Hard to explain exactly. So watching Dane Fletcher make this move coming from a similar UDFA situation really warms my heart....and astonishes my brain. The fact that he could even get on the field last season was remarkable. That he has progressed to this point THIS early is even more surprising.

Mark my words, if he stays healthy. a decade from now, young fans will speak about Dane Fletcher, the same way they speak about Tedy Brushci, who took over 6 years to make the same transition.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I see potential for Fletcher to be an everydown ILB, he played DE at an FCS school and look at the progress he's made! I remember a few very memorable plays off the top of my head from his rookie year:

1. Fletcher completely blanketing Ray Rice on screen passes/dumpoffs in the OT game last year.

2. Fletcher recovering a fumble against the Chargers.

3. Fletcher sacking Flynn in a key moment.

Although it was a called run blitz, that play where he got to Moore immediately was awesome too. Personally, I like him better than Spikes as a LB, but Spikes is needed badly for run defense, hope he returns.

Yes, like dessalines said, it reminds me very similar of Bruschi's career path.

 

[b72s]

Connor barwin good comparison but we obviously got better value.


Reminds me of young bruschi/johnson..

If his improvement rate keeps up could be very good

 

[tobias funke]

After college I spent 2 years as an OLB (mostly as a Will), before finally switching back to the middle of the field as a slightly better than camp fodder SS.

Were you with any teams? I'm interested in hearing more about your experiences.

 

[patchick]

Connor barwin good comparison but we obviously got better value.

I don't really see the comparison, since Barwin plays a different position -- and is longer, more athletic, and has 11.5 sacks. :confused2:

But it's telling that people are making comparisons with 3/4 OLBs, because that's the position EVERYBODY projected Fletcher to out of college. I would love to learn when and why the Pats saw ILB in him. His transition to that position has been outstanding, but part of me still wonders how he'd look on the outside.

Anyway, since we're talking Pats-style ILBs, I'll take David Harris as my comp:

FLETCHER
Height: 6015
Weight: 250
40 Yrd Dash: 4.61
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 09'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.35
3-Cone Drill: 6.93

HARRIS
Height: 6022
Weight: 243
40 Yrd Dash: 4.59
20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 08'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.29
3-Cone Drill: 7.25

 

[DaBruinz]

In a galaxy far away and long, long ago the Pats once drafted a hands down DE and spent a couple quiet years converting him into a hands up ILB where "suddenly" he emerged as a star. I watched Dane at summer camp his 1st season and could see that his attitude and energy made him special enough to keep.

Study hard, work hard and learn well, Grasshopper.

Umm.. that hands down DE you are talking about went to OLB in the 4-3 and then to ILB. But, I agree. I see many similarities..

 

[patfanken]

Umm.. that hands down DE you are talking about went to OLB in the 4-3 and then to ILB. But, I agree. I see many similarities..

...and did I mention, took 6 years to make the transition. Yeah I did.

 

[patfanken]

Were you with any teams? I'm interested in hearing more about your experiences.

2 camps with Denver in the early 7O's. It was an age of 45 man rosters and $14K minimum salaries (which was the highest figure a guy like me could aspire to.... and twice as much as I was making teaching school at the time) I had one camp as an OLB. About the best thing I could say about that was that I wasn't the first LB cut, got to play in an exhibition game or two, and left with all my body parts intact. The next year they asked me back to take a stab at SS. I guess you could say it went better. This time I stayed until after the last preseason game before I got cut.

Looking back on it, they didn't make a mistake. I was Ross Ventrone without the poetry. Late at night I sometimes I try and tell myself that if there had been a 53 man roster back in the day, I might have had a very brief NFL career But who knows.

Still not bad for a kid who played at a school where the big game was against Bowdoin to see who was the worst small college team in New England.

 

[jays52]

2 camps with Denver in the early 7O's. It was an age of 45 man rosters and $14K minimum salaries (which was the highest figure a guy like me could aspire to.... and twice as much as I was making teaching school at the time) I had one camp as an OLB. About the best thing I could say about that was that I wasn't the first LB cut, got to play in an exhibition game or two, and left with all my body parts intact. The next year they asked me back to take a stab at SS. I guess you could say it went better. This time I stayed until after the last preseason game before I got cut.

Looking back on it, they didn't make a mistake. I was Ross Ventrone without the poetry. Late at night I sometimes I try and tell myself that if there had been a 53 man roster back in the day, I might have had a very brief NFL career But who knows.

Still not bad for a kid who played at a school where the big game was against Bowdoin to see who was the worst small college team in New England.

Nice! You must have been the best player in NESCAC history!

 

[Patriot 37]

I don't really see the comparison, since Barwin plays a different position -- and is longer, more athletic, and has 11.5 sacks. :confused2:

But it's telling that people are making comparisons with 3/4 OLBs, because that's the position EVERYBODY projected Fletcher to out of college. I would love to learn when and why the Pats saw ILB in him. His transition to that position has been outstanding, but part of me still wonders how he'd look on the outside.

Anyway, since we're talking Pats-style ILBs, I'll take David Harris as my comp:

FLETCHER
Height: 6015
Weight: 250
40 Yrd Dash: 4.61
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 09'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.35
3-Cone Drill: 6.93

HARRIS
Height: 6022
Weight: 243
40 Yrd Dash: 4.59
20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 08'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.29
3-Cone Drill: 7.25

Holy Crap David Harris ran a 4.59 he's good but he plays a lot slower.

 

[jays52]

Moving from the edge to the middle of the field is like playing on an entirely different field. The game becomes SOOOO much more complex. Hard to explain exactly. So watching Dane Fletcher make this move coming from a similar UDFA situation really warms my heart....and astonishes my brain. The fact that he could even get on the field last season was remarkable. That he has progressed to this point THIS early is even more surprising.

Can I take a stab at it?

I think the big thing in the transition from a very simple position to the most complicated position on defense. I think as an end in both executing your assignment and viewing the field, you really only have to be aware of the area immediately in front of you. No matter what the offense runs your responsibility is in your immediate cone of vision. You may have to peek while engaged, but that is the extent of anything that comes close to a linebacker read. The most complicated drop you'll have to make is on a zone blitz, and then you're only defending the curl to flat at the most.

To play inside linebacker you are the quarterback of the defense. I mean that in the sense of everything the team does revolves around you as the center. The simplest read a linebacker is going to have is an iso play which is pretty similar to the read an end will make. In that situation, everything is right in front of you, and you just run balls out into the gap to make a play or at least close it by engaging the fullback. I think 99% of the mental part of linebacker comes down to being able to play with your peripheral. The first step of defending the run from the inside is reading the backfield through the guards. So instead of reading the player immediately in front of you, you are viewing a part of the formation. The other mandatory thing is understanding the concepts of a lot of offenses and their plays. When you're playing linebacker you have to be able to identify the movement of an interior lineman and understand how that correlates to the design of the play. Take for example defending a counter trey. You read the guard pulling in front of you, see the back take a jab step, and identify that as a counter that will be needing downblocks on the playside. So as you scrape with your guard, you understand that another lineman (most likely the playside tackle) is going to be trying to earhole you. You must view the back through his blockers, while being ready to see the downblock coming through your peripheral. All the while understanding the play design so you can pursue properly as your vision strobes in and out as the trash plays out around you. With experience, you understand the timing of the downblock and know when to cut his angle off and get tight to the LOS, or hop a touch backwards and sidestep him with a swim. If you don't, you're going to be looking at the sky and there will be a back in the secondary. If you successfully evade the attempt to seal off your pursuit, you must then understand how your front will dictate the hole or where the back's cut is going to be. That's when you have to turn on your afterburners and try to knife in laterally to catch the back as he tries to accelerate into and through the hole. The frightening part is that this is a fairly standard play for a linebacker to defend.

The complexities in the passing game are no different. Down and distance awareness, understanding what coverage you are running behind you, where you find into the defense. What personnel they have out. What their tendencies are. If you're in the curl to flat and they have a tight end aligned close to a slot receiver, who are you going to chose when they attack your zone with levels? Where is your safety? If you get sent how are you going to time your blitz? If I've got the back in man and he stays in am I going to wait for a hole to open or am I going in as soon as I read that? Is the back staying aligned for a draw? If so who is going to come off their lineman to block me? If they run a play action that intentionally tries to draw me up where is the set up route going to go? Who is going to run it? How far behind me is he going to be running the route? All of these things need to be processed as the play develops and usually takes quite a bit of experience to understand and play quickly.

As Ken said, it is one hell of an adjustment to take, especially from the mentally easiest position on defense.

How'd I do, Ken?

 

[patfanken]

Nice! You must have been the best player in NESCAC history!

Far from it. Just in my era, a kid from Amherst, Doug Allard or something like that. He had a fairly long career with the Dolphins as a LB including the undefeated team. Also Pete Watson from Tufts had the brief anonymous kind of career I never got to have playing with the Bengals...and that's just off the top of my disintigrating brain. I'm sure there were several others.

There were a lot of good football players back in those days in the "little ivies" but back in those days we also played Harvard, when Havard was producing pros every year, and Lehigh and Laffayette, not that they were big time, but a lot more big time than we were. There were probably a dozen or so guys on each team that could have played most anywhere. And believe me I wasn't best of them, just one of the dozen.

I think at the NFL level there is also an almost manic need/desire to compete that has to go along with the talent. Who knows if the 3rd time might have been the charm, but my compulsion to play at that level fell slightly short of the manic level/

Besides by that time, we were "making love, not war" I was getting my football fix coaching HS, and my "contact high, playing Lacrosse.

 

[patfanken]

Can I take a stab at it?

How'd I do, Ken?

Good enough that you inspired me to elaborate on your good work, because we disagree to some degree on a few things and I'd like to give a better feel to how much is going on inside that is avoided on the outside.

1. In its simplest expression, when you are playing ILB (and in this example lets look at a 3-4 set.) there are so many more ways you can be attacked than if you are on the outside. The reads are easier, often faster, and clearer when you playing on the outside.

2, You never read from the backs thru the Gs, Jay, but the other way around. Backs lie. Its in their nature. Guards will take you to the play. more on this later

3. A key element for an ILB is keeping your outside shoulder and leg free at all times. And since the 2 LBs often swap sides due to formations, this can sometime get confusing, leading to ILBs who take on blocks with the wrong shoulders and lose that outside gap control. I saw that happen a couple of times in the Denver game. So a good ILB also has to be ambidexterous.

4. For an ILB all motions affect your reads

5. When you read your G there are only 5 things that can happen.

a. if he fires straight out you have to step up, meet the block square, but keeping your outside arm and leg free and control the G-T gap. You can't take a side until you know where the ball is going. So you end up having to control someone who is likely 60-100
lbs heavier than you. Proper leverage and hand technique is essential critical to overcome this obvious disadvantage.

b. if he tries to hook you - Again keep the same outside position, keeping your outside shoulder and leg free and controling the blocker until you can release to go to the ball.

c. if he blocks down or double teams the C or T - FILL the hole. Step up to the LOS and prepare to meet a blocker - usually a FB or a pulling G - (though the Pats often use a motioninng TE for this purpose) The closer to the LOS you meet the blocker the smaller the potential hole. Again Ideally, keeping that outside position would be the best for shedding the blocker, but with a 240 lb FB with a 5 yd start coming at you, I have to admit I often just ran as fast as I could into the lead blocker and hoped for the best. If you got there quick enough it usually worked out.

d. If he pulls - I couldn't improve on what Jay wrote on this - it was spot on. The key thing here is being aware that someone IS coming for you. Unfortunately there aren't any running plays where they DON'T assign someone to block the ILB. So if the guy closest to you blocks someone else.... don't wait for the boom to fall....because its coming, The other key thing is NOT to over run the play. Keep back shoulder leverage on the ball. RBs are faster than LBs but LBs will always have 5-7 yd head start....and I'll take that in what usually amounts to a 10-15 yd sprint

e. If he pass blocks - Then you need to get back into your primary area of responsibility, which will be based on what the offense is expected to do. As you drop you are spliting visiion between the QB and an expected pattern.

If you are in man you usually take the back coming out of backfield, however I found it better if the back never LEFT the LOS standing. I call it now the Willie McGinest technique.

Or there are times in cover 2 where the ILB upon reading pass needs to get his ass into the deep middle, becuase the seam is the weakness of cover 2 and its the LBs job to cover the deep seem from the underneath. A real flaw in the defense if you ask me, and one that usually doesn't work out well as we see every Sunday

Now this is a BRIEF description of JUST basic read responsibilities. It covers none of the myriad possible run stunts and none of blitzes. It doesn't consider any of the over formations or LB responsibilities when the DL uses gap techniques.. In other words only about 20% of what is actually going on for an ILB.....at ANY level.

Now take a kid who has ALWAYs had his hand in the dirt, now ask him stand up. Take that kid who has always gotten as close to the LOS as he could, and ask him to get 5 yds off the ball. Now take a kid who has viewed the game from one side of the LOS or the other his entire career, and now ask him to see it from the middle where blockers and keys are coming from all sides.

Now THEN ask this kid to compete for a position AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, against players who have done this for 1000's of reps and he hasnt reached double figures. And that might give you just SOME insight in how remarkable Dane Fletcher's swift development really is.