* Official Raider + Panther Ghoul Thread!! *

[patsfaninpa]

Well, if Ndamakong Suh has a little brother, fine....

Pick 34 from 2010 is starting to be compared to "Revis Island" and not unfavorably.

Jerod Mayo from a couple years back has a big lead on the rest of the league - that's the league, ah say the entire league, son, in tackles.

Okay, he was a pick #10, I believe...

But this year there are 4 rookies on the defense, and Hernandez and Gronk, much to my surprise, are actually living up to how we all hyped them on draft day. We even continued on the miniaturization project via the scrap heap, signing a guy even smaller than Edelmann who is even smaller than Welker... and they can all do stuff.

Okay, rah rah and all that... all I'm getting at is that top 10 picks are fun to root for but don't always pan out. There also seems to be a top-5 plateau and a top-10 plateau, in terms of $$$... with this draft not being the bumper crop that 2010 was, I'm thinking hmmmmm maybe push picks into the future either way. For Christ's sakes, though, trade to somebody that'll stay down. Nasty little trick Oakland's playing, occasionally showing up for games.

Or... we could always brainwash Detroit into thinking they need to draft another really high wide receiver and an O-lineman or something, not just the one they'll get with their very low first rounder... and trade them both our 1s and a 2 for Suh. They'd have to be really dumb to do it, but it's Detroit, yanno?

More than likely there will be some sort of rookie wage scale in the new CBA. Cap hit won't be as big as it was in the past. Some people have speculated it won't go into until 2012 draft. Most think the upcoming draft choices will be under the scale. Difference of opinion is that the NFL Draft is the last event of the current year. Players will give up the rookies to get other benefits. And, I don't blame them.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

More than likely there will be some sort of rookie wage scale in the new CBA. Cap hit won't be as big as it was in the past. Some people have speculated it won't go into until 2012 draft. Most think the upcoming draft choices will be under the scale. Difference of opinion is that the NFL Draft is the last event of the current year. Players will give up the rookies to get other benefits. And, I don't blame them.

One would hope so, although there's been a surprising amount of resistance to the idea (even though it would mean more money for veterans in a league with a salary cap); IIRC, the agents have done a good job convincing the players against their own best interests.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Big Loss for the Raiders yesterday!! Plus they looked terrible, if you consider that they ran the opening KO back for a TD, there only other points were off an excellent cacth/blown coverage/poor tackling angle long TD pass (both TDs were by rookie Ford), their offense under the saviour Geradkowski, looked putrid. They also got pretty beat up.

Some other positives to think about, they have San Diego at San Diego next week, so there is another loss, and an end to any playoff hopes. The only game I can see them winning is the Denver game. That game will be HUGE, especially if Denver can pull out a win this week or next (versus Arizona and KC) then if Oakland were to lose to Denver, it would be another loss and another team getting to five wins!

I think that Cincy might be the only competition that gets between the Pats (carolina) and the #33 pick. Carolina has winnable games coming up versus Seattle and Arizona, meanwhile Cincy schedule is a brutal as their play: NO, PIT, CLE, SD, BAL. I highly doubt that the will win another game.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Big Loss for the Raiders yesterday!! Plus they looked terrible, if you consider that they ran the opening KO back for a TD, there only other points were off an excellent cacth/blown coverage/poor tackling angle long TD pass (both TDs were by rookie Ford), their offense under the saviour Geradkowski, looked putrid. They also got pretty beat up.

Some other positives to think about, they have San Diego at San Diego next week, so there is another loss, and an end to any playoff hopes. The only game I can see them winning is the Denver game. That game will be HUGE, especially if Denver can pull out a win this week or next (versus Arizona and KC) then if Oakland were to lose to Denver, it would be another loss and another team getting to five wins!

I think that Cincy might be the only competition that gets between the Pats (carolina) and the #33 pick. Carolina has winnable games coming up versus Seattle and Arizona, meanwhile Cincy schedule is a brutal as their play: NO, PIT, CLE, SD, BAL. I highly doubt that the will win another game.

We could get lucky there too Ted. If both teams go 2-14. Cincy will have had an easier sked(according to GBN) and pick 1st in the Round 1. But, pick gets flip flopped to start round 2. It's all good.
Just need Buffalo(Damn you Steve Johnson) and Detroit to win a game.

 

[patsfaninpa]

More good news on the Raider front. Yes, I do take delight in reporting anything bad on the Raiders in case anyone is wondering. I started rooting for the Pats in 1976. Veterans on board know how that season ended. Whenever a Raider fan starts *****ing about the Tuck Rule. I point out there are two ways to look at it. 1. It's the correct call. 2. We're even!!

Sounds like our fishy friends put a can of whup-a** on them and beat them up. Lots of key injuries.

Raiders loss painful in many ways | ProFootballTalk

 

[Metaphors]

Cool.
#9 could be Adrian Clayborn/Da'Quan Bowers range. Huge boost to the defense.

#9 is my magic number. I'm thinking Luck and Green go in the top couple of picks with another QB (probably Mallett) in the mix as well. That leaves 6 spots and guarantees one of the following players on the board:

Dareus 6'4", 310 - Size, strength, pursuit speed...what Belichick loves in a DE
Fairley 6'5", 300 - Disruptive force, huge in LSU/Bama games despite double-teams
Bowers 6'4", 280 - Living in opponents backfield this year
Quinn 6'5", 270 - Prototype Belichick OLB, top 3 if not for silly suspension
Peterson 6'1", 220 - Top cover talents with amazing physical skills
Amukamara 6'1", 205 - Telling that teams avoiding him this year, tackles like a safety

These are guys with elite skills that just aren't available to contending teams. I know Belichick has the inclination to trade down, but if one of the above is available, I don't think you pass on them.

If Oakland only wins one more game, the Pats are likely top 9. That Miami loss was huge. I was starting to accept the Pats picking 12-15 and missing out on those guys (still getting a nice player but it isn't the same). Not any more. Top 10 baby!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

#9 is my magic number. I'm thinking Luck and Green go in the top couple of picks with another QB (probably Mallett) in the mix as well. That leaves 6 spots and guarantees one of the following players on the board:

Dareus 6'4", 310 - Size, strength, pursuit speed...what Belichick loves in a DE
Fairley 6'5", 300 - Disruptive force, huge in LSU/Bama games despite double-teams
Bowers 6'4", 280 - Living in opponents backfield this year
Quinn 6'5", 270 - Prototype Belichick OLB, top 3 if not for silly suspension
Peterson 6'1", 220 - Top cover talents with amazing physical skills
Amukamara 6'1", 205 - Telling that teams avoiding him this year, tackles like a safety

These are guys with elite skills that just aren't available to contending teams. I know Belichick has the inclination to trade down, but if one of the above is available, I don't think you pass on them.

If Oakland only wins one more game, the Pats are likely top 9. That Miami loss was huge. I was starting to accept the Pats picking 12-15 and missing out on those guys (still getting a nice player but it isn't the same). Not any more. Top 10 baby!

I think Cleveland, Denver and San Fran are all eyeballing Dareus. Fortunately all 3 of those teams may have new head coaches by draft time. Maybe the new head coaches will run a 4-3 and let Dareus slide to us.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

#9 is my magic number. I'm thinking Luck and Green go in the top couple of picks with another QB (probably Mallett) in the mix as well. That leaves 6 spots and guarantees one of the following players on the board:

Dareus 6'4", 310 - Size, strength, pursuit speed...what Belichick loves in a DE
Fairley 6'5", 300 - Disruptive force, huge in LSU/Bama games despite double-teams
Bowers 6'4", 280 - Living in opponents backfield this year
Quinn 6'5", 270 - Prototype Belichick OLB, top 3 if not for silly suspension
Peterson 6'1", 220 - Top cover talents with amazing physical skills
Amukamara 6'1", 205 - Telling that teams avoiding him this year, tackles like a safety

These are guys with elite skills that just aren't available to contending teams. I know Belichick has the inclination to trade down, but if one of the above is available, I don't think you pass on them.

If Oakland only wins one more game, the Pats are likely top 9. That Miami loss was huge. I was starting to accept the Pats picking 12-15 and missing out on those guys (still getting a nice player but it isn't the same). Not any more. Top 10 baby!

Excellent point. I think that Luck, Locker and Mallett will all go in the top ten. The only questions are who is going to trade up to get them. What will also be interesting to see if some of the teams that will be at the top of this draft, give up on there established QBs. Is the time up for Tony Romo? Carson Palmer? IS it time to pull the plug on Chad Henne? I think that McNabb is done, ditto for Favre. San Francisco and Arizona clearly need QBs. Does Buffalo stay with Fitzpatrick? I'm guessing that Carolina will stay with Jimmy Clausen. But anyway you spin it, someone is going to move up and grab all three of these guys.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Excellent point. I think that Luck, Locker and Mallett will all go in the top ten. The only questions are who is going to trade up to get them. What will also be interesting to see if some of the teams that will be at the top of this draft, give up on there established QBs. Is the time up for Tony Romo? Carson Palmer? IS it time to pull the plug on Chad Henne? I think that McNabb is done, ditto for Favre. San Francisco and Arizona clearly need QBs. Does Buffalo stay with Fitzpatrick? I'm guessing that Carolina will stay with Jimmy Clausen. But anyway you spin it, someone is going to move up and grab all three of these guys.

I am really hoping Luck stays in school another year. If I needed a QB, I would take Mallett before Locker or Foles.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I am really hoping Luck stays in school another year. If I needed a QB, I would take Mallett before Locker or Foles.

Luck and his coach might come out in a package deal. Once the coach goes Pro, so will his QB.

 

[JerseyDevil26]

There is a lot of great talent this year, more so than each of the last two years. It wouldn't surprise me to see the offensive line get upgraded with a second round pick. As far as Oakland's pick...I'm going to suggest it's going to come in the 9-14 range. Remember after the college bowl games end you have players that fly up the draft radar during the combines and pro days (see Tyson Jackson).

It's obviously going to depend on which teams pick where. AJ Green could potentially fall down to #5....if we have #9 would BB trade up to get him? History tells us BB trades down, like we all know, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the Pats front office be aggressive in this years draft.

 

[BelizePats]

Man I just want that Oakland pick to go to the Defense! I also wouldn't mind our 1st going to the D as well.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Luck and his coach might come out in a package deal. Once the coach goes Pro, so will his QB.

As crazy as it sounds if Luck was available at the Raiders pick I would take him. (He won't be} I think he is going to be the real deal and the most NFL ready QB I've seen in awhile.

I can't help but think if one of the 3 are available and BB is offered a kings ransom that he will take it. I seriously believe after seeing the success and impact some of the young QB's have been putting out lately that a 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st the following year arent out of the question. Maybe even more?

 

[Off The Grid]

As crazy as it sounds if Luck was available at the Raiders pick I would take him. (He won't be} I think he is going to be the real deal and the most NFL ready QB I've seen in awhile.

I can't help but think if one of the 3 are available and BB is offered a kings ransom that he will take it.

I seriously believe after seeing the success and impact some of the young QB's have been putting out lately that a 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st the following year aren't out of the question. Maybe even more?

Great question, one of my favorite subjects.

I think you're very close to target. The Book Value of what you're talking about is actually just about right. The Bolts, for instance, extracted a 1st, a 3rd, and the next year's 1st and 5th ~ Mmmmmm....Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifth ~ for Eli Manning. But unless you're talking about the #1 or #2 pick in the nation ~ in other words: unless you're talking about Andrew Luck, who'd be out'f'is mind NOT to come out, by the way ~ then I think scoring a 1st and a 2nd in this year's draft is shooting a little higher than we can expect, and probably even then.

We've been looking at landing at about #8 for a few weeks, now, in my view, and that seems to be becoming increasingly likely, as Great Blue North illustrates: Great Blue North Draft Report

And I think that your notion of somebody falling all over themselves to move up to that spot ~ something I've been spending FAR too much time speculating about, ere the last few months!! ~ is actually realistic: There're at least 3 solid QB candidates to evolve into "must have" status, between now and The Combine and the Draft: Jake Locker, Ryan Mallet, and Christian Ponder.

And the most likely Gun Slinger to make some overzealous GM wet himself, of course, is Cam Newton.

The Book Value of picks ~ based on The Infamous Draft Value Chart, which actually holds up quite well, and allowing a ball park 50% Discount for Trading Back (one year removed) ~ could produce something like this:

Out

#8 ~ 1400 Points

In

#20 ~ 850 Points
#84 ~ 170 Points
2012 1st Rounder @ 50% Discount of estimated #20 ~ 425 Points
-----------------
1445 Points

That's obviously a small premium ~ the equivalent of a late 4th Rounder ~ but one which we could realistically hope to extract, if some one got all worked up over Cam Newton at #8.

-----------------

And were it to come to that, my GOD, would I love to see that trade happen with, say, the SeaHawks, should they win the NFC West, or the Bears, should they finally smarten up about Cutler.

Either team could take a really nice tumble, next year.

 

[Off The Grid]

A BANNER Week for Our Picks!!

Great Blue North Draft Report

Raiders ~ 11.5!!
Panthers ~ #33!!
Vikings ~ #73!!

The Vikings' New Life under their new Coach is a Tactical set back, but a Strategic BOO YAH!! :rocker:

And they didn't even slip!! :singing:

The Black Cats continued to assert their dominance...

And the Raiders went from #22 to #11.5 in 8 days!! BOO Yah!!!

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

This can only be good news.....

Bruce Gradkowski done for the year with shoulder separation | ProFootballTalk

The turnover machine that is Jason Campbell to take the riegns for the five five games.....

 

[JerseyDevil26]

See to me I'd rather see the Vikings finish with a better record than the Raiders so the Raider pick will be closer to the top. I don't really understand why we're rooting for the Vikings to lose. I'd rather have one or two spots closer to the top of the draft than worry about getting the 73rd instead of the 78th pick. Might just be me though.

 

[Off The Grid]

See to me I'd rather see the Vikings finish with a better record than the Raiders so the Raider pick will be closer to the top.

I don't really understand why we're rooting for the Vikings to lose.

I'd rather have one or two spots closer to the top of the draft than worry about getting the 73rd instead of the 78th pick. Might just be me though.

Umm...

We're NOT rooting for the Vikings to lose.

Read up TWO POSTS.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

See to me I'd rather see the Vikings finish with a better record than the Raiders so the Raider pick will be closer to the top. I don't really understand why we're rooting for the Vikings to lose. I'd rather have one or two spots closer to the top of the draft than worry about getting the 73rd instead of the 78th pick. Might just be me though.

Actually we should be rooting FOR the Vikes this week (although if they do lose to Buffalo it would not be terrible). The Raiders pick can easily slide from the 12th pick (where it is today) to the 9th pick after Sunday if the follwoing happens:
Raiders lose at San Diego (pretty much a given)
Cleveland wins in Miami (moves Cleveland to 5-7 with a much higher SOS than the Raiders)
Seattle wins at home against Carolina (pushing the Pats closer to the much coverted pick #33)
and Minnisota beats Buffalo (moving them to 5-7)

Although a three way tie at 5-11 between the Raiders, Panthers, and VIkings is still mathmatically possible (if you went by the current SOS that would garner the Pats the picks #1, 34, 67) but highly unlikely. As anyone who watched the game last night will tell you that neither Arizona nor San Fran look like they are going to win many more games.

BTW San Fran is at Green Bay this week, so put any thoughts of them getting to five wins this week out of your mind.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

BTW San Fran is at Green Bay this week, so put any thoughts of them getting to five wins this week out of your mind.

Green Bay could have a let down game after the devastating loss in Atlanta.

If the Raiders pick is before San Fran and Cleveland and Denver passes on Dareus, that means we are in perfect position to get the best 3-4 DE in this draft. Sweet!