Now that he's signed, do we trade Welker?

[reflexblue]

I love him and won't want to see him go, but he's 31 now and has had injury history. He wants a long term deal that the Pats might not be able to give him. Maybe another team will. Currently, we have 9 other WR's on roster. Given how they handled the Seymour situation...
Do we trade him? What would it take to in compensation to trade him? 1st Rounder next year?

Thoughts?

The man just took a leap of faith by signing his tender and you want to trade him, what a DB thought

 

[Jimke]

Why all the love for Edleman? He has had virtually no offensive production the last two years.

 

[BrickPat]

I love him and won't want to see him go, but he's 31 now and has had injury history. He wants a long term deal that the Pats might not be able to give him. Maybe another team will. Currently, we have 9 other WR's on roster. Given how they handled the Seymour situation...
Do we trade him? What would it take to in compensation to trade him? 1st Rounder next year?

Thoughts?

It kills me when people mention age...other than the freak knee injury Welker has been a beast. While it occasionally happens in the NFL do you honestly believe Welker has lost a significant amount of his skill set simply because he is 31? I'd rather have a 31 year old Welker than a 20 something who wasn't nearly as effective/complimentary to the Pats O.

 

[ausbacker]

This is all I have left to give in regards to the Trade Welker possibilities.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is that real??? too funny



You're not going to any decent player for the 2012 season.

Yeah. Even though he (is) looks like a fairy in that, it was just the ultra soft Pau Gasol saying that Griffin double dribbled, which he didn't.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Wes Welker WAS/IS & WILL ALWAYS BE a MAJOR ASSET to our Offense. What he brings to'da table no other receiver compares. His slot presence & uncanny ability to find seems and get YAC are second to none. Edelman is close but he is NO Welker. Now with Lloyd who has to be counted for by opposing DBs and our TEs (included AH in backfield at times) Welker is even that more deadly to be dealt with. $ign him hopefully we lock'm up for couple of yrs.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't think Welker should be traded but every Patriot is tradable.

I think the chance of the Pats trading Welker right now is miniscule. Besides his obvious value, Wes is a Pats-style player and has been a good soldier by signing his tender so that he can be available for minicamps. As you say, every Patriot is tradeable, and I think that if someone made a huge offer the Pats would listen. But that's very unlikely.

FWIW, I think that the Pat's aren't cheap at all. But I think they place a lot of importance on not letting ANY player dictate terms or place himself above the team. They don't respond to public tirades (Mankins), whining and selfish behavior (Moss), holdouts (Mankins, Branch) or threats (Mankins). But they DO reward loyalty. The deals that Vince Wilfork and Logan Mankins ended up getting were very equitable in the end. They were not "bargain" deals for the Pats. But the Pats didn't give those guys their deals until they had toed the line somewhat - Wilfork by signing his franchise tender, Mankins by reporting and playing well under his reduced and pro-rated RFA tender. Even Brady wasn't exempt from it, but he was rewarded very well when he showed up for work under the assumption that a long term deal would be worked out.

I'm not sure why exactly the Pats do business this way. It would seem easier to just pay the guys and be done with it. But my impression is that the team puts a lot of emphasis on showing that they can't be bullied or coerced, and that the team is greater than any player.

Now that Welker has extended an olive branch by signing his tender and reporting, I would expect the Pats to give him a deal in the range of what Randy Moss got after 2007: something like $27M/3 years with $18-20M guaranteed. 4 years is possible. I don't believe the Pats would agree to a longer contract, unless the last year is completely voidable.

 

[JJDChE]

I love him and won't want to see him go, but he's 31 now and has had injury history. He wants a long term deal that the Pats might not be able to give him. Maybe another team will. Currently, we have 9 other WR's on roster. Given how they handled the Seymour situation...
Do we trade him? What would it take to in compensation to trade him? 1st Rounder next year?

Thoughts?

First, the guy has missed 4 games in 8 seasons (and 1 playoff game). On what planet is that 'had an injury history'? I mean he came back for training camp after tearing his ACL in week 15. For his style of play he's about as durable as they come.

Second, I'm not going to crap on you for the suggestion. I absolutely guarantee this discussion has been had in the meeting rooms of Patriot Place. I just think the conversation comes to a halt when you look at what he brings to the field and how difficult it would be to replace it. He has 554 receptions in the last 5 years. He's, likely, an ACL injury away from have 5 consecutive 110 reception seasons. As it stands he has 4 110 receptions seasons. No one else IN NFL HISTORY has more than 2.

Say what you want about being a 'slot' receiver or his YPC average, but no one has played that position even close to the level that Welker has...EVER. It's a real tough decision to dump a guy like that in his prime, even if he's on the backside of his prime.

 

[Gronkandez]

It kills me when people mention age...other than the freak knee injury Welker has been a beast. While it occasionally happens in the NFL do you honestly believe Welker has lost a significant amount of his skill set simply because he is 31? I'd rather have a 31 year old Welker than a 20 something who wasn't nearly as effective/complimentary to the Pats O.

People are talking about age in regards to his age towards the end of a possible new contract. WR's tend to decline in the low to mid-30's, see Ocho, Branch, Moss etc..

Now that Welker has extended an olive branch by signing his tender and reporting, I would expect the Pats to give him a deal in the range of what Randy Moss got after 2007: something like $27M/3 years with $18-20M guaranteed. 4 years is possible. I don't believe the Pats would agree to a longer contract, unless the last year is completely voidable

I agree. I think the Pats are just waiting to make sure he doesn't get hurt in training camp and preseason. They'll minimize their risk until they hit week 1, or ever a few weeks later, then make the offer.

 

[patsderoer]

Why is it ok to call him an idiot? Don't take it personal. It's just his opinion.

Short answer 2011 Wes Welker Highlights - YouTube

Long answer.
True that every person is entitled to his opinion. But some opinions are just too outrageous that have to be called out.
So Welker is old, but the other WRs, Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth, Ocho, Branch are spring chicken?
You think it's easy to replace a 1,5k receiver? You think that G + H didn't benefit immensely from having the best slot receiver in the game taking attention away from them? Will it be easy to find another slot receiver who will know with his eyes closed where the 1st down marker is?

But hey, if you want to trade Welker, trade him. Trade Brady too, he's even older than Welker, and he also has injury history. Wilfork too, he's barely younger than Welker. Trade them all, it's so easy to replace elite NFL talent.

 

[conway]

Prior to free agency and the draft, I felt it would have been worth exploring trading Welker had he been under contract. We could have added 2012 draft picks and freed up 2012 cap room. However, since the draft is over and the cap room is largely worthless at this point, I think it's extremely unlikely the 2012 Pats can improve by trading Welker. I can't wait to see what a starting lineup featuring Lloyd, Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez will look like. Has anyone ever had 4 1,000 yard receivers? (No, right?) I think its more than just possible this year.

 

[Garbanza]

I love him and won't want to see him go, but he's 31 now and has had injury history. He wants a long term deal that the Pats might not be able to give him. Maybe another team will. Currently, we have 9 other WR's on roster. Given how they handled the Seymour situation...
Do we trade him? What would it take to in compensation to trade him? 1st Rounder next year?

Thoughts?

Some of you crack me up.

The franchise number will not kill the Pats this year - especialy with Light's retirement. Welker is Brady's guy. And injury history? One major injury and he's injury prone now?

 

[Keyser Söze]

No way in hell. This idea is illogical. Wes is a lifetime Patriot. He's not going anywhere.

The idea is very logical, he's not getting a long term deal here. BB would be stupid to do so. He's not going to pay him for past performance.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

It's going to be very intresting, but I don't think Welker gets traded this season atleast. I am not too optimistic that a deal will be done although. We have to wait and see how guys like Anthony Gonzales, Edleman etc. pan out before doing anything with Welker in my opinion.

Personally I'd love to keep him, as no one on our current roster Can replace Bradys safety valve, aka Welker but being a long time patriots fan we all know business is business.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

The thing with trading Welker is that some people feel we will recieve a great draft pick in return or great talent which is not true. Welker cannot go onto any team and begin producing numbers like he does here, infact many NFL teams do not even have a serious need for slot reciever, a 31 year old slot receiver at that.

What do you expect in return???? Jarred Allen? #1st round pick? It may be better to hold on to him and let him retire here than trading him for a 5th round pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree. I think the Pats are just waiting to make sure he doesn't get hurt in training camp and preseason. They'll minimize their risk until they hit week 1, or ever a few weeks later, then make the offer.

No can do.

The deadline for signing a franchised player to a new multi-year deal is July 15.

 

[Gronkandez]

The idea is very logical, he's not getting a long term deal here. BB would be stupid to do so. He's not going to pay him for past performance.

The idea is logical because the Pats have plenty of receiver depth to still be an effective offsense w/o Welker, though they clearly would be better with him

The idea is logical if you can find fair trade value for a player that can fill a need in 2012 and going forward.

The deal is illogical because it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY they can work out a deal for a player who can step in and fill a need. Who would be a good fit for the Patriots, Ed Reed? I can't think of the other safeties off the top of my head who may be trade candidates.

 

[Ring 6]

I love him and won't want to see him go, but he's 31 now and has had injury history. He wants a long term deal that the Pats might not be able to give him. Maybe another team will. Currently, we have 9 other WR's on roster. Given how they handled the Seymour situation...
Do we trade him? What would it take to in compensation to trade him? 1st Rounder next year?

Thoughts?

1 injury is not an injury history.
Why wouldn't the Patriots be able to give him a long term deal? They have as much cap money as everyone else.
None of the other 9 WRs can do anything resembling what Welker does.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think the chance of the Pats trading Welker right now is miniscule. Besides his obvious value, Wes is a Pats-style player and has been a good soldier by signing his tender so that he can be available for minicamps. As you say, every Patriot is tradeable, and I think that if someone made a huge offer the Pats would listen. But that's very unlikely.

FWIW, I think that the Pat's aren't cheap at all. But I think they place a lot of importance on not letting ANY player dictate terms or place himself above the team. They don't respond to public tirades (Mankins), whining and selfish behavior (Moss), holdouts (Mankins, Branch) or threats (Mankins). But they DO reward loyalty. The deals that Vince Wilfork and Logan Mankins ended up getting were very equitable in the end. They were not "bargain" deals for the Pats. But the Pats didn't give those guys their deals until they had toed the line somewhat - Wilfork by signing his franchise tender, Mankins by reporting and playing well under his reduced and pro-rated RFA tender. Even Brady wasn't exempt from it, but he was rewarded very well when he showed up for work under the assumption that a long term deal would be worked out.

I'm not sure why exactly the Pats do business this way. It would seem easier to just pay the guys and be done with it. But my impression is that the team puts a lot of emphasis on showing that they can't be bullied or coerced, and that the team is greater than any player.

Now that Welker has extended an olive branch by signing his tender and reporting, I would expect the Pats to give him a deal in the range of what Randy Moss got after 2007: something like $27M/3 years with $18-20M guaranteed. 4 years is possible. I don't believe the Pats would agree to a longer contract, unless the last year is completely voidable.

In the NFL the last year of any deal is essentially voidable. In fact all the years are once any guaranteed money is accounted for. What additional years allow is cap management flexibility and spreading out any amortized signing bonus money. If Welker got even a 4 year $38M (the 2012 tag times 4) deal with $21M guaranteed ( the 2012 and 2013 tags combined value that would be off the books in the first two years between salary and bonus) and a $12M signing bonus for example, they could cut him in year 4 and absorb a $3M dead cap hit - same as it would cost them to cut Ocho today... Although if he took a steep cut to play out the string in year 4 they might not want to... You could even go 5/$45 with more guaranteed money even via rolling guarantees and still be in fine shape dead cap wise in either of the last two years... That's kind of the approach they took with the QB who essentially was guaranteed to see all of his $72M in new money unless he fell off a cliff because additional chunks of it ($20M worth) beyond the initially guaranteed $42M become fully guaranteed prior to each new league year based on his simply being on the roster at the start or the end of the prior year. NFL contracts are never an all or nothing proposition. The only thing that is guaranteed is initial signing bonus or fully guaranteed money. If cap management isn't a concern and you don't want much if any dead cap implication you just frontload the guaranteed money as salary...

 

[Ring 6]

The thing with trading Welker is that some people feel we will recieve a great draft pick in return or great talent which is not true. Welker cannot go onto any team and begin producing numbers like he does here, infact many NFL teams do not even have a serious need for slot reciever, a 31 year old slot receiver at that.

What do you expect in return???? Jarred Allen? #1st round pick? It may be better to hold on to him and let him retire here than trading him for a 5th round pick.

Welker produces because Welker is a great receiver. That is the end of the story.