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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    as per felger's latest nonsense..he spoke to brady before the whole branch grieveance mess went down...says tom felt, the team had a fair offer for branch and branch should manage his agent and now he feels he was duped by the team about the fair market value...
    they cant just let go...
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not quite sure what you're saying. You're saying (from Felger) that Brady thought the offer to Branch was fair or the offer from Branch was ? If it were the latter, why would Brady feel duped ?
  3. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    after branch got more than what the pats offered , he felt duped that the pats had convinced him that the offer they had was fair...-as per felger..
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's a bunch of crap. the Patriots offered about the same money as Seattle except for the $$$ this year. I don't blame Belichick for not ripping up the contract...if he did it for Branch then he'll have to do it for all our other good players. Every player will cut their deal a year short which will inflate our cap by @ $10 million every year.

    All it takes is for 3-4 players a year, working on their rookie contracts, earning around $1 million for the year to want their deal voided for the last year. So, all those players get an extra $3 million or so by ripping up their contract which means we operate $8 to say $12 million higher in the cap every year...that's just plain bad business for Belichick to do that.

    I'm with him all the way on this one. That extra money means 2-3 good players left for the team to carry...which $3-$4 million a year players would you like to see dropped from this years team???
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Felger, Borges both incompetent ass clowns of Boston Media, who care about nothing but their own ego's and ratings.
  6. patsacolachick

    patsacolachick Rookie

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    Okay I know I'll get killed here, but maybe just maybe the FO did ask Tom to lean on Deion to get rid of his agent, and Tom did and then the agent goes and gets him this "great" contract??? Maybe that is what is causing the bad feelings for Brady (if, in fact, there are bad feelings, which is sure looks like there is)? :confused:
  7. marty

    marty Rookie

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    ahhhh...ol' Felgy's gotcha girl! :rolleyes:
  8. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Except for the $$$ this year" makes a big difference.

    By ripping up the contract, what exactly do you mean??
  9. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW - The Pats are under the cap by $11 million. If Branch got the same deal from the Pats that he got from the Seahawks, the Pats would be under the cap by just over $8 million.
  10. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you saying that the Patriots should never extend players that are in their rookie contracts??
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Uh, that would mean our QB is dumber than a doornail. That makes no sense. If I think your cheese is worth $6 and some moron thinks your cheese is worth $7, does that mean I tried to dupe people into believing your cheese was only worth $6? Makes no sense.
  12. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    There look to be bad feelings? How do you come up with that one?
  13. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I think he's saying you extend them but you meet a happy medium between the market value (6.5m in Branch's case) and the salary (1m). If you give him 6.5m in his last year, hell just rip every contract up before its time.
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the Patriots consider that irrelevant. However much they may be under the cap after, if they (in their mind) overpay Branch there's still less money to spread around.
  15. TomBrady'sGoat

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    Branch was under contract this year for $1M. His agent's negotiating position was that it didn't exist, and that Deion was to be paid like a free agent.
  16. Oswlek

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    Considering that Brady had an interview with Felger on his opening 4 Downs show where he ackowledged that he will never be the highest paid and that winning makes it worth it....


    I cry bull***:blahblah:
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Miguel ... this is why Branch left ... because Belichick would not redo his contract for this year. You are the capologist here...correct my numbers, I'm sure they are off but probably close.

    Let's say 2-3 draft picks hold out every year not wanting to play for their $million or so they would make in that last year...because Branch got it, they all want it. So, they get paid more because their last year of their rookie deal is now the new deal.

    Lousy players can't pull this off but good players can try. So instead of paying 2-3 former rookies $2 mil or $3 mil total for the year the team now will pay $9mil to say $12 mil for the same players that year(current year).

    That inflates the cap an average of $10 million every year which leaves $10 million less to sign 2 or 3 free agents.

    I'm no capologist but I have a degree in mathematics and economics and it makes perfect sense to me why Branch was not paid an extra $5 million this year.

    In any case...i already knew he was not playing for the Patriots ever again before camp. It was a very personal issue to him...and, I would have done the same thing if I was him. All is not equal in Patriot Land...there is an inner circle there that some players are very resentfull of. Maybe all teams have that...but Branch was not in that circle and that bothered him as much or more than the $$$...this I know to be fact because I heard it from Branch's mouth with my own 2 ears. I wish him well...but I can see both sides being right and wrong here...parting was the best solution.
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's right...and something else not mentioned was that Seymour got an extra $1 million to come back until his deal was renewed. i would think under normal circumstances that the same should have been done with Branch. IMO there had to be some harsh words exchanged because it never got that far...and like i said....Branch knew he wasn't coming back before camp started. This goes back to when Vinateiri left...that's where this Branch negotiating thing all went bad.
  19. RayClay

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    Why bother to write the contract ? Had we matched Seattle we would have first had to give Branch 5 million for nothing.

    They ripped up Brady's contract. Anyone that thinks a 5'9" receiver take # 65 in the draft that has a couple good injury free seasons is the same as the best QB in football, take a reality pill.

    Deion screwed his team and his team mates, plain and simple.

    He never gave the Pats a chance, why bother? he knew they weren't going to give him 6.5 mil for 2006 when he was under contract for 1.045?

    Why would they give up their contractual rights for nothing?

    He and his agent saw that pot of increased cap money and decided that could threaten to disrupt and distract the Patriots all season and hoped to extort their way out of their contractual obligation.

    Belichick didn't want to give up the season to make a point to one selfish player, so he let him seek a trade and get a draft pick.

    Branch put his greed above his team and his team mates.

    Belichick would have been within his rights to hold him for two years with the franchise and trade him whenever he felt like it.
  20. RayClay

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    Seymour is unique. Branch is not. They can rip up any contracts they want.

    5'9" Wideouts do not warrant ripping up contracts.

    Troy Brown had 101 and 97 receptions in this system.
  21. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I missed that wording. The Patriots wanted to give Branch an extension. He didn't want one. He wanted to get out of the last year of his contract, plain and simple.

    You more than anyone should know the difference. In this case, over $5 million.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2006
  22. the taildragger

    the taildragger Rookie

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    I'm so sick of this, but how is that any different from saying that spending a disproportionate amount of the cap on Tom and Richard will make everyone else demand bigger deals too?

    Where was the mutiny when Tom got all his money?

    Players implicitly understand the value totem pole on each team. If they'd shown some of their trademark creativity in the negotiations with Deion BEHIND CLOSED DOORS nobody would've known anything about caving -- instead they thought they could strongarm him because they were blind to the HIDDEN leverage (i.e. the game is played on passion and heart and nobody can be forced into playing out a contract)...it was only AFTER they made the whole thing public that they'd limited their flexibility to raise the stakes...translation: the spin campaign backfired...they tied their own hands.

    branch wanted to return to this team (unlike Adam)...the team DEFINITELY wanted him to return. it went wrong folks...nothing about this turned out like either side initially wanted. this is supposed to be the best FO in the league. let's hope they learn from this pissing contest. people ignore the fact that the precedent of Deion leaving is far worse than adding another $1M to the pot would've been..we'll need a Plan B for future players who take a hardline tact, but who are still worth trying to squeeze into our value paradigm.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006
  23. PatsFanInVa

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    Meanwhile, Brady's copy of Who Moved My Cheese is pretty much worn through from overuse.

    He'll get back and get in synch w/Gabriel, Jackson, et. al. About all the "head hanging," I watched it, and I watched him, and it sounded to me like "The story tonight is that Brady is dejected and sick of his FO... mention it about 50 times and see who reads the body language the same way." I mean, it's there, but it's like if you turn off the sound and watch a tape of the game, how there is it? How about comparing it to another game, sound off?

    Oh right, we haven't done that (to establish a baseline.) We're going by impressions and rehashes of those impressions and rehashes of the rehashes. I know Brady felt bad when Deion left, and either he or Sey said to the media it felt "different" from the other guys.

    Well, I am no expert on negotiations, but it seemed to me someone would give him more money to play elsewhere, and his agent royally pissed off the Pats. No more Branch.

    This team needs to move on, and Brady is the guy to lead them past this. He knows this. I don't know that I agree with all the hand-wringing from the Lay-Z-boy we're seeing lately. I think he needs to be in synch with his receivers, not on the couch in a shrink's office, or somewhere getting rotator cuff surgery.

    Unless, of course, there's something we don't know (that's always the catch.) But it's loony to speculate on those things, without some kind of information to that effect (i.e., a rotator cuff injury, the team -- or Brady -- "hating the coach" -- etc.)

    Okay, back to the blather mill,

    PFnV
  24. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots' offer would have put $4 million more in Branch's pockets this year. If that is not a redo of his contract for this year, I do not know what is.

    Matt Light in the last year of his rookie contract got an extension that had the following structure - a $2.5 million signing bonus in 2004 and a $6.5 million option bonus in 2005. His 2004 salary remained the same. IMO, Matt Light's extension was a redo of his contract.



    No. If you want to make up stuff, then just say it and stand by it.

    I'm sure that they are not.

    FWIW - I think that you are confusing cash outlay with cap hit.

    FWIW, I have an degree in economics.

    The first offer to Branch would have given Branch an extra $4 million this year. It seems likely that since that the Patriots have a history of bettering their first offer during negotiations if Branch had wanted to be here that he would have gotten the extra $5 million.
  25. Clonamery

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    Yes! What's done is done. Unless someone's got a time machine (I mean literally, not the drug induced mind travel many of you take regularly) and can go back several years to re-do some (it appears) personal and financial chit between the Pats and DB then can we get past the dead horse in the middle of the road whose name seems to be Conjecture.
  26. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hence, the question.

    I have earlier postulated that Branch did not want to be here.

    Thanks for the incorrect information.
  27. PatsFanSince74

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    No matter how we slice the numbers, I think it's fair to say that Branch's "Value to Tom Brady" was greater than what the Patriots perceived as Branch's "Fair Market Value." In the end, Management decided that the gap between the two Values was too great and that the precedent of meeting Deion's demands was too risky in terms of setting a precedent for the future.

    The compelling, if debateable and maybe even unsettling, logic of this is that Management decided that "Value to Tom Brady" did not equate to "Value to the Team in the Long Run." By this I do NOT mean that Management is dissing Brady or throwing him under the bus, but that, in this case, they went in a very different direction than TB would have had them go and we all have the choice of either obsessing over this or moving on.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006

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