My Thoughts on Asante

[aluminum seats]

Good initial post & thread. One additional point, though--I think the Pats have to determine how they'll deal with these scenarios, to the extent they can, going forward. To a degree it's always a case-by-case decision, but with Branch and now Samuel threatening hold outs, and guys like Warren and Wilfork, etc. etc. (hopefully we'll continue to have guys we actually care about come up for contract renewals.......) at a certain point it would behoove the Pats to figure out if they want to take a hard-line.

 

[PatsSteve1]

No, not true. In my lifetime I had several opportunities to work for more money at different jobs, and to change jobs within the company I worked for. Some I took, most I did not.

I didn't post the above that's attributed to me. Actually I disagreed with that. Each player is an individual and will do what he does based on his own desires. Some want every cent they can get whereever they can et it and some want other things.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Andy, now that the rumors have leaked out that Asante wants Clements type money, do you believe the Pats will try to move him in a trade now or gamble that he will play one year for the franchise tender?

 

[shirtsleeve]

I didn't post the above that's attributed to me. Actually I disagreed with that. Each player is an individual and will do what he does based on his own desires. Some want every cent they can get whereever they can et it and some want other things.

You certainly have. It was mine. You just didn't distinguish the quote in any way except for an asterisk on your response. Perhaps you could bolden and italicize quotes or use the quote button to help you out with this next time.

 

[shirtsleeve]

I agree totally...and when you get to be talking mega millions...the lifestyle issue does not matter as much..

First of all, as I said in an earlier post, the reason I wrote that was to allow the reader to see the situation from the player's perspective. I then went on to do a similar thing from the owners perspective. It is clear by the immense response to the former and non response to the latter, that people have already skewed their view in a certain direction and are seeing all things in this dispute from that perspective. Sad really.

It was done to show the scope of the impasse, not to trigger emotionally based, team biased response.

I personally dont get it either, ok? Like Brady said last year, how much is enough? But that wasn't my point, damnit! Please just forget how YOU feel or think, here. Its irrellevent! Neither side will call any of us to get our thoughts on this.

I was trying to look at things objectively, from both sides; based on this through a looking glass view, I was hoping to come to a rational conclusion about the whole negotiation. Not whether I agreed or disagreed, or liked or disliked anything or anyone involved in the negotiations.

Oh, and one thing to remember. These players' careers are very short. Injuries can shorten them further. 20 million sounds like a ton of money, but ammortized over 50+ years remaining in their lives, its not near as much as it sounds. Looked at that way, the difference between 15 and 20 million in guaranteed dollars is HUGE.

 

[PatsSteve1]

You certainly have. It was mine. You just didn't distinguish the quote in any way except for an asterisk on your response. Perhaps you could bolden and italicize quotes or use the quote button to help you out with this next time.

I don't get the blueish tint for what I'm replying to when I hit the quote button anymore. I think that got hijacked, too - Any idea how I get that back?

 

[spacecrime]

I didn't post the above that's attributed to me. Actually I disagreed with that. Each player is an individual and will do what he does based on his own desires. Some want every cent they can get whereever they can et it and some want other things.

I think I've been hijacked -

Sorry. I didn't notice who posted it. I just hit the quote button and the program does the rest automaticaly. Must be a glitch in the quote button or something.

 

[pats1]

Sorry. I didn't notice who posted it. I just hit the quote button and the program does the rest automaticaly. Must be a glitch in the quote button or something.

Nah, I think someone just screwed up the code in one of their posts and the rest of them followed suit.

I'll go through and fix them up.

 

[pats1]

All fixed.

 

[DaBruinz]

Colts' 2007 adjusted cap: $111,317,326
Manning 2007 cap hit: $8,200,000
Harrison 2007 cap hit: $8,400,000
Freeney 2007 cap hit: $9,612,574
Total Manning, Harrison, Freeney cap hit: $26,212,574

26,212,574/111,317,226 = 23.56%

Sources:
https://oncourse.iu.edu/access/content/user/bavanlan/Salary Cap/SalaryCap.html
http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199176

Miguel - on the cap resources page, can you fix the link to this page?
http://www.ianwhetstone.com/football/ cap.html

It should be http://www.ianwhetstone.com/football/cap.html (no space before cap)

Thanks.

Except that Freeney's Cap hit isn't 100% yet. It depends on what happens with the Justin Smith and Charles Grant. Whether they get a deal done prior to April 15th or AFTER April 15th. If its AFTER, then that will be Freeney's cap hit. If its before, then Freeney's cap hit could go down.

 

[DaBruinz]

Huh??? Seymour's deal was restructured last year and then extended. Most of his 2007 and 2008 cap hits is from the amortization of his signing bonuses.
His 6.7 million cap in 2007 consists of 6 million in amortization. Ditto for his 2008 6.8 million cap hit.If that is not heavily amortized, I really do not know what is.

I would beg to differ. Seymour's deal was NOT restructured. He was signed to an extension. As you are so quick to point out to other people, there is a difference.

EDIT: I stand corrected. Though the money he got stayed the same, they "restructured" how he got it.

Now, what I am still trying to decifer is why you amortized the 12.66 million in option bonus over the entire length of the contract when it wasn't paid until this year.

 

[Miguel]

Except that Freeney's Cap hit isn't 100% yet. It depends on what happens with the Justin Smith and Charles Grant. Whether they get a deal done prior to April 15th or AFTER April 15th. If its AFTER, then that will be Freeney's cap hit. If its before, then Freeney's cap hit could go down.

The date is actually April 20th. Freeney's cap hit can only go up. It can not go down.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency
"Clubs retain exclusive negotiating rights to an "exclusive" franchise player by committing to a minimum offer of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of the end of the restricted free agent signing period on April 20, or a 20 percent increase over his 2006 salary, or the average of the top five salaries at his position as of the end of last season -- whichever of the three is greater"

 

[DaBruinz]

The date is actually April 20th. Freeney's cap hit can only go up. It can not go down.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency
"Clubs retain exclusive negotiating rights to an "exclusive" franchise player by committing to a minimum offer of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of the end of the restricted free agent signing period on April 20, or a 20 percent increase over his 2006 salary, or the average of the top five salaries at his position as of the end of last season -- whichever of the three is greater"

Miguel -
The Franchise tag for Defensive Ends is 8.64 million. Now, you add into that, Charles Grant and Justin Smith getting that 8.64 Million and the Exclusive tag number obviously goes up. However, if they sign a deal PRIOR to April 20th that drops their cap hit BELOW the 8.64 Million Franchise Cap number, then the Exclusive cap number would have to go DOWN. Now, granted, it can't go down below the 8.64 million mark, but it can go down from the project 9.7 million that Pats1 posted. But, as someone else mentioned (MoLewisRocks) it can go up.

 

[Miguel]

I would beg to differ. Seymour's deal was NOT restructured. He was signed to an extension. As you are so quick to point out to other people, there is a difference.

As part of the extension Seymour converted part of his 2006 salary into a signing bonus - the same creative bookkeeping move made by the Colts with Harrison in 2004.

Now, what I am still trying to decifer is why you amortized the 12.66 million in option bonus over the entire length of the contract when it wasn't paid until this year.

Because I figured out that the Patriots either guaranteed the 12.66 million or paid it out last year. That is why my 2006 cap number for Seymour (9,085,160) pretty much matches the NFLPA number (8,979,000) for Seymour in their PDF file for 2007 franchise and transition numbers
http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/NewsAndEvents/HotTopics/FranchiseAndTransition_2007.pdf
The difference between the two numbers is the amount of Seymour's offseason workout bonus money which is not included in the calculation of the franchise tag number.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel -
The Franchise tag for Defensive Ends is 8.64 million. Now, you add into that, Charles Grant and Justin Smith getting that 8.64 Million and the Exclusive tag number obviously goes up. However, if they sign a deal PRIOR to April 20th that drops their cap hit BELOW the 8.64 Million Franchise Cap number, then the Exclusive cap number would have to go DOWN. Now, granted, it can't go down below the 8.64 million mark, but it can go down from the project 9.7 million that Pats1 posted. But, as someone else mentioned (MoLewisRocks) it can go up.

I did not say that the exclusive tag number could not go down. I said that Freeney's cap number can not go down because of what happens with Charles Grant or Justin Smith.

Freeney's cap number consists of two parts - the $8.644 franchise tender and two years of amortized signing bonus proration (484,285 for 2007 and 484,288). That is a total of $9,612,573.

 

[DaBruinz]

I did not say that the exclusive tag number could not go down. I said that Freeney's cap number can not go down because of what happens with Charles Grant or Justin Smith.

Freeney's cap number consists of two parts - the $8.644 franchise tender and two years of amortized signing bonus proration (484,285 for 2007 and 484,288). That is a total of $9,612,573.

Thanks for the correction.