My mind was changed today…

[RIpats88]

Because players become FAs per the collective bargaining agreement.

too bad the CBA doesn't allow for teams to give players extensions before they hit FA....so you can lock up your good players instead of letting them hit FA.

 

[RIpats88]

Why do people randomly cherry pick an arbitrary number like 3? If you want a good QB the overwhelming odds are you need to get him in the first round.

Burrow has been to a super bowl.
Mahomes has won 2 and been to 3.
Jared Goff has been to a super bowl.
Wentz you can give half credit has he was an MVP candidate on a Super Bowl winning team.
Cam Newton went to a super bowl
Matt Stafford won a super bowl
Matt Ryan went to a super bowl
Joe Flacco won a super bowl
Aaron Rodgers won a super bowl
Eli Manning won 2 super bowls
Ben Roethlisberger won 2 super bowls and went to 3

That is 9 Super Bowl wins (not including Wentz) and 15 appearances in the last 20 drafts for first round quarterbacks. If you remove the greatest player of all time with 10 appearances and 7 wins that leaves you with a partial credit to Nick Foles, Russel Wilson, and Drew Brees (who was pick 32 but technically not a first rounder). So outside of Brady that is 2.5 Super Bowl rings for non-first round quarterbacks in the last 20 years.

Too many Patriots fans have this romanticized delusion that we will luck into another generational QB in the late rounds who will lead us to multiple Super Bowl wins. The odds are highly against that.

he did say though won with the same team. and alot of those guys you listed went later in the 1st round. not exactly proof a top 3 QB is a sure thing vs. guys in the top 10 or lower.

food for thought though, here are current top 3 picks starting in the NFL

jared goff, baker mayfield, kyler murray,bryce young, trevor lawrence, matt stafford,zach wilson, mitchell trubisky, joe burrow (although injured). then theres guys like trey lance who never even made it onto the field.

not exactly a murderers row. some outright busts, some good but not great guys. one elite yet injury prone guy in Burrow.

if anything most of the better QB's in todays NFL were drafted outside the top 5.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

too bad the CBA doesn't allow for teams to give players extensions before they hit FA....so you can lock up your good players instead of letting them hit FA.

It is the players' decision to go to FA, not the teams' decision. Many players want to go to FA that is why there are lots of FAs from many teams every year.

What is your point?

 

[RodThePat]

It's very simple math: if you hit on a HoF OT, he won't change the equation for this team unless you also get a QB. So try to get the QB.

 

[RIpats88]

It is the players' decision to go to FA, not the teams' decision. Many players want to go to FA that is why there are lots of FAs from many teams every year.

What is your point?

I understand a player can go to FA. But per mike reiss and others the Patriots didn't even offer an extension when they could have locked them up earlier.

Maybe they don't take it. But to not even offer it is just malpractice.

 

[palialka]

A miracle?

We have a top 3 pick in the first and the second and $100M. We can defer more into the future than we have been doing if we think that we have a QB.

We need a starting LT, probably a first or early 2nd rounder, a veteran QB, a top draftee at QB and a WR. It will not take a miracle to be a contender for playoff play.
=================
Yes, we need to be somewhat lucky in our choice of QB's. However, if we are, $100M should be enough to re-sign or replace our free agenst, and add a WR.

Come on man, we’re a 2/3 win team this year.

I hate to break it to you but the Pats becoming a SB contender in one offseason is not a realistic expectation. We need more than just 2 QBs, a LT and a WR.

The only way we contend next season is if we hit it out of the park with the new GM and HC (presumably), the draft and each FA signing on offense.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope you’re right…I’ll gladly eat that crow. But our offense has been allowed to disintegrate for the past 4-5 years so I don’t believe one off season is going to fix that.

 

[203Pat]

he did say though won with the same team. and alot of those guys you listed went later in the 1st round. not exactly proof a top 3 QB is a sure thing vs. guys in the top 10 or lower.

food for thought though, here are current top 3 picks starting in the NFL

jared goff, baker mayfield, kyler murray,bryce young, trevor lawrence, matt stafford,zach wilson, mitchell trubisky, joe burrow (although injured). then theres guys like trey lance who never even made it onto the field.

not exactly a murderers row. some outright busts, some good but not great guys. one elite yet injury prone guy in Burrow.

if anything most of the better QB's in todays NFL were drafted outside the top 5.

My thing is you can't be scared to take a QB in the first. Your best chance of success is getting a QB and if they like a guy who is a later first round pick then so be it but trying to strike gold in the mid to late rounds is a long shot.

 

[jdlboot14]

Agree with the principle of building OL & DL to win.
And, we just quietly signed our new QB off the Jags PS - Rourke is QB1 next year! BB did it again!
Spend all the draft picks on OL and Defense.
Sign new skill players in FA. Super Bowl.

 

[203Pat]

I didn’t randomly cherry pick anything. I said top 3 because that’s the range I suspect t we’ll be drafting in.

There are lots of 1st round QBs that have won or participated in SBs recently, just not so many winners in the top 3.

That was my point…using this notion that drafting a QB in the top 3 picks as some formula for winning a SB is a horrible measuring tool. It doesn’t add up; you just have to look at the last 20 years.

We need a lot more than just a QB to get back to where we want to be on top.

If they're reasonably sure the QB they want can be had at 10 then trade back but it is risky. If it's me even if I think there's a 75% chance I can get the guy I want at 10 I still take him at 3. The position is too important to gamble with and if there's a guy you love you need to get him. If we take the QB at 10 or we take him at 3 he needs to be the one that the next coach wants and not just the guy who happened to be available there like Mac.

 

[The Gr8est]

This offensive rebuild is going to take a couple of years at least so I don’t see an issue with rebuilding the line first and then going after the franchise QB in the following draft.

This rebuild isn’t a quick fix, we have to do it the right way to get back to where we want to be.

Now, if the Pats organization thinks one of these 3 QBs is a can’t miss guy, then by all means grab him…but I don’t think we should force a QB pick for the sake of drafting one because we don’t have a viable QB on the current roster.

This debate just illustrates how badly we need to hire a competent GM this off season…that’s the most important signing actually.

100%

Just needing and wanting a QB doesn’t make one magically appear.

I think a lot of teams get “QB beer goggles” and see what they want to see instead of what the reality is.

Take the generational player who IS there, if you are not honestly sold on the QB.

Take the QB who you are hoping is the guy, and he fails to measure up, then you are in the same position next year, minus the generational player.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

100%

Just needing and wanting a QB doesn’t make one magically appear.

I think a lot of teams get “QB beer goggles” and see what they want to see instead of what the reality is.

Take the generational player who IS there, if you are not honestly sold on the QB.

Take the QB who you are hoping is the guy, and he fails to measure up, then you are in the same position next year, minus the generational player.

At this point in December, there appear to be 6 or 7 superior prospects:
QB: Williams, Maye, and maybe Daniels
OT: Alt, Fashanu
WR: Harrison
TE: Bowers
These are the types of prospects that create mismatches and wins. I'd like to see us land one of these PLUS some extra comp for trading down a few spots. But because QB is such a big need, and need always is part of the equation, just make sure we get the right QB.

 

[PatsFan2]

At this point in December, there appear to be 6 or 7 superior prospects:
QB: Williams, Maye, and maybe Daniels
OT: Alt, Fashanu
WR: Harrison
TE: Bowers
These are the types of prospects that create mismatches and wins. I'd like to see us land one of these PLUS some extra comp for trading down a few spots. But because QB is such a big need, and need always is part of the equation, just make sure we get the right QB.

I don't think Daniels is a maybe playing at LSU...Maye is more like the maybe to me level of competition.

 

[onegr8om]

It wouldn’t shock me if this happened

THIS is exactly what I want to happen. Get the highest pick possible, Trade that for a HAUL to move back a few spots and select Jayden Daniels. That would be a dream start to the draft for me.

 

[Hyped]

Barring a miracle, we’re not contending in 2024. We have massive holes to fill all over the offense that’s likely going to take at least 2 seasons to get it right.

Not to mention that we need to hire a GM and HC…or at least we should. They’re not going to be in a prime position to fix everything in year 1 of an organizational/team rebuild.

Disagree.

Look at our turnover differential....for the first time in 17 seasons we will be in the minus. Our QB's have thrown 12 interceptions combined and lost a few fumbles alone.

Get back in the plus, cut out special teams miscues, defensive/offensive penalties, and improve personnel even a little bit... and that 2-7 record in one score games will likely be 6-3 next year...and take away some stupid blow outs like the Saints' game in Foxborough where things just snowballed.. that is 4-5+ wins right there which would have put us in the thick of the AFC race right now at 7-7/8-6.

 

[203Pat]

Disagree.

Look at our turnover differential....for the first time in 17 seasons we will be in the minus. Our QB's have thrown 12 interceptions combined and lost a few fumbles alone.

Get back in the plus, cut out special teams miscues, defensive/offensive penalties, and improve personnel even a little bit... and that 2-7 record in one score games will likely be 6-3 next year...and take away some stupid blow outs like the Saints' game in Foxborough where things just snowballed.. that is 4-5+ wins right there which would have put us in the thick of the AFC race right now at 7-7/8-6.

So cut all the dumb things we have been doing for 4 years and we will be good again. Got it.

 

[palialka]

Disagree.

Look at our turnover differential....for the first time in 17 seasons we will be in the minus. Our QB's have thrown 12 interceptions combined and lost a few fumbles alone.

Get back in the plus, cut out special teams miscues, defensive/offensive penalties, and improve personnel even a little bit... and that 2-7 record in one score games will likely be 6-3 next year...and take away some stupid blow outs like the Saints' game in Foxborough where things just snowballed.. that is 4-5+ wins right there which would have put us in the thick of the AFC race right now at 7-7/8-6.

I hear what you’re saying but let’s say we do everything right in the off season and get things moving in the right direction; that doesn’t suddenly mean that all the close games we’re losing this season automatically become victories next season. It doesn’t work that way.

Realistically, we’re not gonna go from a 2 or 3 win team to a 10 win playoff team in one offseason. Everything would have to go PERFECTLY right for that scenario to play out.

Pie in the sky/wishful thinking is fun for us fans to do, but you can’t twist that with reality.

We can improve for sure, but we have to have patience. This rebuild is gonna take a couple years provided we get a new GM making decisions…..and possibly a new HC.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I understand a player can go to FA. But per mike reiss and others the Patriots didn't even offer an extension when they could have locked them up earlier.

Maybe they don't take it. But to not even offer it is just malpractice.

The Pats locked up (off the top of my head) with extensions, Bentley, Tavai, Peppers, Brown, and Parker. The Pats are always talking about an extension with every good player. Where is the Mike Reiss quote about the Pats not trying to lock up players?

The Pats can not lock guys up unless the player wants to sign. I would not want to be locked up, I would want to go to FA to maximize my value.

 

[1960Pats]

It is the players' decision to go to FA, not the teams' decision. Many players want to go to FA that is why there are lots of FAs from many teams every year.

What is your point?

I think his point was to give top players a raise to keep them here and avoid FA in the first place. Teams do that also. I'm not saying give every top player an extension but none is clearly not working.

If one of my sons was in the draft this year I wouldn't want him going to the Pats. They're too cheap.

 

[palialka]

I don't think Daniels is a maybe playing at LSU...Maye is more like the maybe to me level of competition.

Certainly, “level of competition” means something. In that regard I don’t think there’s a massive gap between Daniels and Maye because both played at a Power 5 school.

However, recent drafts have shown that just because a QB selected in the 1st round comes from a top college program, it doesn’t always translate into success at the NFL level. Mac is a prime example of that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think his point was to give top players a raise to keep them here and avoid FA in the first place. Teams do that also. I'm not saying give every top player an extension but none is clearly not working.

If one of my sons was in the draft this year I wouldn't want him going to the Pats. They're too cheap.

Off the top of my head, we gave Brown and Judon a raise. We gave Bentley, Tavai, Peppers, Brown, and Parker extensions. Uche has been very open about working on an extension with BB.

Why do you say none is clearly not working? Who is "none" and what is not "working"?