My knock on Maroney and the offense

[MoLewisrocks]

Have you ever seen a thread so split about one player who more than likely will not make a difference in the amount of wins this season whether he plays or not? He will be a non-issue IMO one way or the other. That is not what you want though is it? We should make a new thread on this."Will he or will he not?"

Yeah, the split is about 80/20 but the mere existence of a 20% validates your POV. You've got a lot of Nem in you, cousin, and that's not a compliment.

Moe, You have some good points. VJC has some good points. Right now VJC is winning by a few rounds. I have a tendency to believe what he is telling me. Those stats are meaningless. If I believed them, I would say he's Jim Brown but it just goes to show you how stats are bogus. Stats are too easily manipulated to get the results you need. Too many factors. What time in the game did he get his biggest yards, Down, Distance, Opponent, Score etc. He gets eight or ten one or two yard gains and a few loses behind the line of scrimmage and happens to break one for twenty....bang! great stats. Nope, I am not buying. I believe my eyes over any stats and anyone, .....and I mean anyone on this site that says that they see more than a mediocre back right now with spurts of promise, is kidding themselves.

When a back is met behind the LOS there generally wasn't much he could have done to create positive yardage. Doesn't matter whether his name is Maroney or Morris or BJGE... It's funny, someone mentioned a sacred cow here a while back and if there is one here it's the OL. You haven't seen Maroney run healthy since 2006. Haven't seen him run at all since last October when he was placed on IR 3 games in. Prior to that what you saw was him carry the team down the stretch into the playoffs. That's what your eyes saw. It's just your brain is in revisionist mode because that doesn't suit it's current agenda.

Show me Cousins. Nobody has said or shown one thing to convince me. I do not watch football on the radio. I admit I was a non believer in Cassel, but to be fair, didn't have a lot of "tape" on him. Still, guilty as charged. I have three years on Maroney. I think he is a great kid but alas...the vision deal without question is true and there is no convincing otherwise to myself (and I take my lumps sometimes justified) or very respected other posters.
He does not like to get hit and he goes down the first pop. Now tell me VJC is wrong about that? He is #39 right we are discussing?

You have 2 years of tape on Maroney and what you're choosing to do is selectively remember only those segments of it that fit your agenda. In 2006 this kid was running with a purpose, displaying breakaway speed and vision, juking defenders out of their jocks and strong arming opponents who attempted to impede him. THEN HE GOT HURT. They chose to rehab that injury and went so far as to limit his use early in 2007 when they had Morris and two new WR's itching to carry the load on a team that would ultimately go undefeated through 18 games. Including the last several of the season into the playoffs while Morris was on IR and some pretty determined defenses coupled with increasingly difficult weather conditions were taking Moss and the prolific passing game out of the equation. After the bye Maroney ran for almost 700 yards and scored 9 TD's in the 10 remaining games. We lost a superbowl in which our OL got manhandled. Don't blame Maroney for mistakes and miscues and lackluster performances that are beyond his control. They chose not to game plan to run the ball. They asked him to take over return duties so Hobbs could play defense. They put the game in the hands of our best player, and his OL allowed the Giants front 4 or 5 to maul him all day long. We had our chances handed to us by guys who set us up with great returns and interceptions and we just could not take advantage of them or much else all night long. When we finally got up, the defense spit the bit. Maroney had nothing to do with that outcome.

It would be great if he had a super season. I don't see it. If the blocking scheme was changed for a "thoroughbred" it was changed back to plowhorse and our running game started working (Neal? Perhasp).

Neal went out in the first quarter of the SB. He didn't come back until week 9 of the following season. Bad **** tends to happen when Neal MIA and he's MIA often. At 33 I don't expect him to become more durable. But even with Neal they still can't implement the zone blocking scheme effectively because they don't have the personnel to do so without wholesale substitutions which effectively limit it's practical execution (per BB). Maroney wasn't built or drafted to open holes, he was intended to sprint through them. Asking him to be something he isn't is how he got hurt. Had he gone to Denver, whose blocking schemes BB was trying to implement, Shannahan would probably still have a job. Belichick wanted to make that change for several reasons not the least of which was likely the career kill rate for power backs and TE's still required to augment blocking for them in his existing scheme. Moss mitigated the immediate need to make solving that blocking problems job 1. For a time...but not ultimately or entirely. Just ask Matt Cassel.

Interesting conversation and 12 pages long but there is no winner on any side so far. My eyes tell me VJC is more correct than not. Many good points here though Cousins. Good fight!
DW Toys

Belichick will determine the winners and losers, on this board and on the field. Maroney will be on the roster come September. How he performs will have as much to do with the other decisions Bill makes and the way his team executes as it will his talent. How many touches he gets will depend on game planning and teambuilding. That's the nature of the game. I appreciate the role each of the backs can play on the 2009 roster. Doesn't change the fact that at 24 and affordably drafted at the end of the 1st round Maroney has the most upside of the lot. Morris is what he is, a great backup power back who is 32 and has battled injuries throughout his career. Taylor is what he is, a once great back on the back 9 at 33 who may or may not have a little somethin' left in the tank to be utilized judiciously. If he does it gives BB options. If he doesn't, well it was only $$$ and then there's Morris. Three backs with injury history and/or age issues and a hope that two of them remain healthy enough simultaneously to join Faulk at 33 in the backfield. If one of the ones who sticks isn't under 30 it'll be BJGE (who would not have made it off the PS barring injuries) time again and back to the drawing board in 2010. Which again is why the Pats are in no way ready to deal Maroney even if you are, cousin...

 

[DW Toys]

Belichick will determine the winners and losers, on this board and on the field. Maroney will be on the roster come September. How he performs will have as much to do with the other decisions Bill makes and the way his team executes as it will his talent. How many touches he gets will depend on game planning and teambuilding. That's the nature of the game. I appreciate the role each of the backs can play on the 2009 roster. Doesn't change the fact that at 24 and affordably drafted at the end of the 1st round Maroney has the most upside of the lot. Morris is what he is, a great backup power back who is 32 and has battled injuries throughout his career. Taylor is what he is, a once great back on the back 9 at 33 who may or may not have a little somethin' left in the tank to be utilized judiciously. If he does it gives BB options. If he doesn't, well it was only $$$ and then there's Morris. Three backs with injury history and/or age issues and a hope that two of them remain healthy enough simultaneously to join Faulk at 33 in the backfield. If one of the ones who sticks isn't under 30 it'll be BJGE (who would not have made it off the PS barring injuries) time again and back to the drawing board in 2010. Which again is why the Pats are in no way ready to deal Maroney even if you are, cousin...

You are entitled to your opinion. I respect it sir. You argument and time spent trying to convince me are well received Cousin. At the end of the day, this thread was about a "knock on Maroney and the offense". I did not start the thread. My concerns are legitimate and you agree with those I can see. His age is a plus. His injury history is an issue. I have not used the "glass" card. My argument in the thread has been nobody has convinced me that this kid would not go down on the first hit, won't use vision (we have seen him be tore up by coaches on the sideline about that now, haven't we?) and if it's forth and one, the game is on the line, YOU cousin tell me who you want with the ball in their hand...Morris, Taylor or Maroney? Be honest! If it is door one or two, well then I am not convinced you are convinced he is the answer to our RB in the future.
Would you take Donald Brown or Chris Wells straight up for him?
DW Toys

 

[BradyFTW!]

Belichick will determine the winners and losers, on this board and on the field. Maroney will be on the roster come September. How he performs will have as much to do with the other decisions Bill makes and the way his team executes as it will his talent. How many touches he gets will depend on game planning and teambuilding. That's the nature of the game. I appreciate the role each of the backs can play on the 2009 roster. Doesn't change the fact that at 24 and affordably drafted at the end of the 1st round Maroney has the most upside of the lot. Morris is what he is, a great backup power back who is 32 and has battled injuries throughout his career. Taylor is what he is, a once great back on the back 9 at 33 who may or may not have a little somethin' left in the tank to be utilized judiciously. If he does it gives BB options. If he doesn't, well it was only $$$ and then there's Morris. Three backs with injury history and/or age issues and a hope that two of them remain healthy enough simultaneously to join Faulk at 33 in the backfield. If one of the ones who sticks isn't under 30 it'll be BJGE (who would not have made it off the PS barring injuries) time again and back to the drawing board in 2010. Which again is why the Pats are in no way ready to deal Maroney even if you are, cousin...

I agree that the OL needs major help, and soon. I used to think that Kaczur was no good, but I thought he had a very good year in 2008. Neal is just injured too often to be reliable, though, and Light scares me at LT because he gets absolutely manhandled by the top-tier pass rushers (I don't expect him to neutralize them completely or anything, but they just kill him). I've also noticed that Koppen tends to get overpowered rather easily, especially against 3-4 defenses.

The Pats' OL is adequate, maybe even above average, but it could definitely stand to improve quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it addressed one or more times on the first day of the draft.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I was away for a couple of days and so am late to this thread.

For me, there is now only upside when it comes to Maroney. I've given up on his being the First Rounder I hoped he was when the pats drafted him...the guy who would remind me of Curtis Martin. Now, I am just content to think of him as a solid back, who will give us 10 or 11 solid/good/very good games a year, miss a few others due to Injury and make a difference maybe a couple of times.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Although it's taken a couple of detours, I think this thread asks a really interesting question.

Is there something wrong with the way Maroney runs? I should say that I love watching Maroney when he's successful. Also, although he's certainly been injured quite a lot, I don't believe that he's "injury-prone" or that he's not prepared to run hard. If that makes me biased in favour of Maroney, so be it.

First off, there is something very distinctive about his running. It's normal to think of backs as either "power" runners or "speedy and shifty". The model for the first is someone who bangs in between the tackles and moves big men out of the way, the second eludes them. But Maroney isn't either. He runs by exploiting his power to smash into defenders and run over them just as much as to run around them, but he isn't at his best in short yardage situations between the tackles. In running style, he looks to me closest to Stephen Jackson, who can also create chaos single-handedly and (probably I'm the only person to think this) Marion Barber.

To get a feel for Maroney's running, just remember when he was a kick returner. Unlike Hobbs, with his speed and elusiveness, Maroney used unexpected violence. Where a defender anticipated him trying to avoid a tackle to the outside, he would as like as not go inside and use his power to knock the defender over, taking advantage of the fact that the defender would already be committed in the other direction. Amazing stuff!

On the other hand, he's not someone who turns two-yard plays into four-yard plays in tight situations. Why is that? Is it because he runs too upright? Doesn't make best use of his blockers? Tries to hit home runs when singles are all that's available? I don't know, but I suspect that his limitations connect to his strengths: he's not a torpedo or a bowling ball who commits himself to a certain course and sticks with it but tries to remain unpredictable till the last possible instant. Anyway, Sammy and, in his different way, Kevin are excellent in those situations. Where I think that LM can excel is when the defense is spread.

So running to the outside from a pitch-out or taking a hand-off out of the shotgun when the defense is spread by the wide receivers suits him. Of course, for that to work well, he has to be a credible pass blocker (and receiver out of the backfield).

All in all, I think that Maroney can be a great asset to the Patriots if he's healthy and is used in ways that exploit his strengths. That's the beauty of running-back-by-committee. (Of course, the more versatile he can be the better -- you can't tip your hand on the play by the sheer fact of having him out on the field.)

If nothing else, I think he makes a pretty remarkable kick returner.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Of course, for that to work well, he has to be a credible pass blocker (and receiver out of the backfield).

That hits the nail right on the head, IMO. If Maroney develops solid pass-blocking skills, he'll find himself running in a lot more situations that suited his strengths.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You are entitled to your opinion. I respect it sir. You argument and time spent trying to convince me are well received Cousin. At the end of the day, this thread was about a "knock on Maroney and the offense". I did not start the thread. My concerns are legitimate and you agree with those I can see.

You and i don't agree on anything so don't flatter yourself. That's another similarity to NEM who had an uncanny ability to claim concensus existed where there was even marginal agreement with his nonsensical rantings, even in the face of overhelming and reasoned dissent. NEM was fond of informing us that there were many others who agreed with him, and that was a scary thought...

His age is a plus. His injury history is an issue. I have not used the "glass" card. My argument in the thread has been nobody has convinced me that this kid would not go down on the first hit, won't use vision (we have seen him be tore up by coaches on the sideline about that now, haven't we?)

If you had watched any of 2006 you would have seen him running over and threw as well as circles around defenders. I recall one instance where he and Ivan appeared to be having a heated exchange on the sidelines but neither you or I or anyone other than them or BB knows what that was about. In 2007 after being limited following surgery and rehab for what was described as a shoulder injury that appeared to be much more severe than anticipated he carried the load down the stretch and you just continue to ignore that.

and if it's forth and one, the game is on the line, YOU cousin tell me who you want with the ball in their hand...Morris, Taylor or Maroney? Be honest!

Brady

If it is door one or two, well then I am not convinced you are convinced he is the answer to our RB in the future.

Whether or not you're convinced of something has no bearing on this discussion. Any more than whether I am. Much to your chagrin we don't get to vote on these things, thank god...

Would you take Donald Brown or Chris Wells straight up for him?
DW Toys

Nope. Too many contradictory evaluations and questions from too many scouts about guys I've never set eyes on. I know what Maroney can do at a minimum when healthy and I really don't care what these kids did in a couple of (or in Brown's case primarily one)college seasons. Both have durability and pass blocking concerns. There are questions about Wells toughness. Brown is undersized and has little receiving experience. He's also been known to dance a little too much and 16% of his carries ended in no gain or being dropped behind the LOS... so if you don't like Maroney you aren't gonna be thrilled with Brown.

I want defense and OL talent upgrades on day 1. And maybe more of the same early in day 2. If Bill wants to look for developmental RB's or WR's or even another QB in the later rounds that's fine with me. I'll take it for what it is, a stab at landing a player who may with coaching contribute even in small ways down the road and potentially represent added value over trading out of those spots. I'll let the rest of you read into it the imminent demise of whomever you wish to replace based on what you think you see or know.

Would I have traded Cassel (and all the players you don't like including one Bill just extended) and picks for Adrian Peterson? It's not worth discussing because that's a trade that never even gets considered because no NFL FO is that foolish. You just can't acknowledge that. You like to claim your musings are the result of your seeing potential trades that would improve multiple teams around every corner. The reason you see them is because you don't have a clue about how players or draft picks are valued in the league. You could ponder that and try to develop more reasonable perspective but you don't seem to be interested in that. You'd rather spend your time concocting more nonsensical scenarios and defending them including by playing your underappreciated and misunderstood card.

That's why engaging you is a been there...done that...waste of time.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Although it's taken a couple of detours, I think this thread asks a really interesting question.
...

If nothing else, I think he makes a pretty remarkable kick returner.

Great analysis. Thanks. This thread has gone way beyond the usual, chippy shots at Maroney and asked some very good questions.

 

[DW Toys]

Nope. Too many contradictory evaluations and questions from too many scouts about guys I've never set eyes on. I know what Maroney can do at a minimum when healthy and I really don't care what these kids did in a couple of (or in Brown's case primarily one)college seasons. Both have durability and pass blocking concerns. There are questions about Wells toughness. Brown is undersized and has little receiving experience. He's also been known to dance a little too much and 16% of his carries ended in no gain or being dropped behind the LOS... so if you don't like Maroney you aren't gonna be thrilled with Brown.

I want defense and OL talent upgrades on day 1. And maybe more of the same early in day 2. If Bill wants to look for developmental RB's or WR's or even another QB in the later rounds that's fine with me. I'll take it for what it is, a stab at landing a player who may with coaching contribute even in small ways down the road and potentially represent added value over trading out of those spots. I'll let the rest of you read into it the imminent demise of whomever you wish to replace based on what you think you see or know.

Would I have traded Cassel (and all the players you don't like including one Bill just extended) and picks for Adrian Peterson? It's not worth discussing because that's a trade that never even gets considered because no NFL FO is that foolish. You just can't acknowledge that. You like to claim your musings are the result of your seeing potential trades that would improve multiple teams around every corner. The reason you see them is because you don't have a clue about how players or draft picks are valued in the league. You could ponder that and try to develop more reasonable perspective but you don't seem to be interested in that. You'd rather spend your time concocting more nonsensical scenarios and defending them including by playing your underappreciated and misunderstood card.

That's why engaging you is a been there...done that...waste of time.

Fair enough. I bow to your superiority in knowledge.
Mo you spent time to reason with me and I appreciate the effort so I will reply. Just so we get it straight, I do this for fun and entertainment. In no way do I profess to be the most knowledgeable person on this site. I actually do some research before I say something. Can the trades really happen? Who knows. But there is motive before I put something down.Had one poster tell me that Adrian Wilson could never be had just because he was disgruntled? Oh really? Think Branch and Dillon here and Cutler a few weeks ago. Answer this, would you have to agree you never thought Cutler would be traded back last Feb.?
I mention scenarios that yes....I sincerely think they are realistic but it is a "what if" proposal. You have never heard me say, "Peppers is coming. Bank on it". I have said some things that have come to pass. One player is starting now and I was berated unmercifully. That was a "what it". If my "what ifs" ruin anyone's day on this site, please avoid me. I was way wrong on Cassel and I have admitted it (ironically I did say trade him last year to Atlanta. Of course another kid was drafted. MC did eventually get traded now didn't he? Ha).

I have not seen one of the "high profile" posters on this site ever admit they are wrong. The arrogance of some amaze me. It is a pity that some take this so seriously as to attack personally for someone expressing their view (not talking about me but others). What bothers me the most is the "you go prove it to me" mentality when, they in fact should present compelling evidence. That was a trick I finally picked up on. They disagree and say you go prove it. Then I am amused when the evidence is contrived, when and if.

I can take care of myself because I know what I am dealing with here and can read into a persona, but to take a new poster (or a regular) and roast him because he has a difference of opinion is wrong. Hey Mr. Poster, I think your point of view is all wrong, let me tell you my...."opinion"...why not that way?. Those who result to calling a person an anal pore etc., are the Cousins I enjoy "engaging" because they are pseudo-intellectuals. They have very weak personalities. To gain self esteem and make one feel good about themselves by berating someone else to a personal level is pitiful.

We can all agree to disagree. If you notice I try to be respectful to everyone as possible. I have thrown a few barbs at some who got edgy though. I have changed opinion when the evidence is such so I am not inflexible. I hate to say it but even my buddy JB has players he disapproves of and I have not admitted this to him because I agree.

I hope I am wrong about Maroney. I think he is a nice kid. But asked if there is someone that could be an upgrade, I have to consider it. DW Toys does not particularly like his game. I see flaws. Does it spoil your day if I do not think your way? I hope not. I have begged people to convince me and no one has. Bogus stats do not help. I will not bow to the mob rules on this site. You can see the "posse" here and know who the players are.

So what you are saying is you would like to see defense. O.K. If there was a trade out there where we could trade a pick for Maroney (say a #2) and we could get a Barwin (if your are a fan), you would say no? That is my whole point. It is a proposal, not a fact.

It's about respect. You might not like what I say (not you, just a broad statement), but there is no one on this site who is going to influence the Patriot FO with their input on this forum (i.e. no one is smarter than anyone here except Miguel). I have never personally attacked a person on this site because of their opinion. If you can say the same you are a much better person.

Yes I do have it in for one certain player(as a player, not personally) because he did something in a game that I witnessed and would have cut him on the spot. Some might have seen it and others not. I will not go into it.
DW Toys

 

[Synovia]

. What bothers me the most is the "you go prove it to me" mentality when, they in fact should present compelling evidence.

They have posted compelling evidence. You're just an idiot and keep ignoring it to spin your worthless drivel. You have not posted a single piece of evidence. Your posts have been worthless.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Riddle me this. Why would Belichick spend an entire off season attempting to change the blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme if he was intending to remain a power running team? That he couldn't do it is more an indictment on this OL and their coaches than anything. That's one reason why some of us never forget to mention the trenches and how upgrading talent there is never a bad investment. The other being a HOF QB who spent 15 weeks on IR last season while his backup spent his first 8 weeks pulling grass out of his teeth. Belichick drafted Maroney to upgrade the talent on this team from plow horse to thoroughbred. Only his OL got the thoroughbred hurt before his first season was in the books. He's been playing hurt ever since. Hopefully this year after his own trip to IR he will be back healthy. Would be nice if the OL was finally ready to make the most of that.

I love how it's never Maroney's fault he runs the way he does, it's the OL's fault. I seriously doubt they conspire to block WORSE for Maroney than for the other Patriots runningbacks. And on top of that you blame his injuries on the OL too, that's rich. Were they legwhipping him as he ran by?

And riddle me this. If Maroney is so good, why is a running offense that is WITHOUT Maroney for 13 games in the season so much BETTER than with him for 13 games?

Pats rushing game in 2007 1,849 yards 4.1 ypc. Maroney played in 13 games.
Pats rushing game in 2008 2,278 yards 4.4 ypc. Maroney played in 3 games.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

That's over 400 yards IMPROVEMENT in the running game by subtracting Maroney and giving his carries to other runningbacks. Riddle me that! I've heard of addition by subtraction but that's a huge difference.

Conclusion: BB signed Fred Taylor for a reason, to be the Pats #1 back. Whatever Maroney does this season is gravy, however his job is definitely on the line.

 

[DaBruinz]

I love how it's never Maroney's fault he runs the way he does, it's the OL's fault. I seriously doubt they conspire to block WORSE for Maroney than for the other Patriots runningbacks. And on top of that you blame his injuries on the OL too, that's rich. Were they legwhipping him as he ran by?

And riddle me this. If Maroney is so good, why is a running offense that is WITHOUT Maroney for 13 games in the season so much BETTER than with him for 13 games?

Pats rushing game in 2007 1,849 yards 4.1 ypc. Maroney played in 13 games.
Pats rushing game in 2008 2,278 yards 4.4 ypc. Maroney played in 3 games.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

That's over 400 yards IMPROVEMENT in the running game by subtracting Maroney and giving his carries to other runningbacks. Riddle me that! I've heard of addition by subtraction but that's a huge difference.

Conclusion: BB signed Fred Taylor for a reason, to be the Pats #1 back. Whatever Maroney does this season is gravy, however his job is definitely on the line.

I think your conclusion is erroneous. First and foremost, you didn't compare apples to apples. The offense in 2007 was predicated on the Pass. The offense in 2008 was more balanced. Second, the Pats ran 513 running plays in 2008 compared to only 451 in 2007. Third, the Pats went back to the in-line blocking scheme when Maroney was out because the O-line wasn't effective.

Maroney's best season was when the Pats were using, primarily, inline blocking with some zone blocking thrown in.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think your conclusion is erroneous. First and foremost, you didn't compare apples to apples. The offense in 2007 was predicated on the Pass. The offense in 2008 was more balanced. Second, the Pats ran 513 running plays in 2008 compared to only 451 in 2007. Third, the Pats went back to the in-line blocking scheme when Maroney was out because the O-line wasn't effective.

Maroney's best season was when the Pats were using, primarily, inline blocking with some zone blocking thrown in.

The poster DaBruinz is quoting points to a 4.1 ypc year with Maroney and compares it to a 4.4 ypc year without him but, apparently, he doesn't bother actually looking at the data.

Maroney averaged 4.5 ypc in his 13 game stint, not 4.1 or below. So, why the drop from Maroney's 4.5 down to a team average of 4.1?

Tom Brady - 37 carries, 2.6 y/a
Heath Evans - 34 carries, 3.6 y/a
Kyle Eckel - 33 carries, 2.7 y/a

Compare those numbers to last season, when Cassel was getting 3.7 y/a, Evans only had 11 carries and Eckel wasn't on the team.

That's a difference from 3.48 and 2.97 ypc just there alone. The bottom of the barrel running numbers were worse in 2007 than 2008. But let's blame it on Maroney.....

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Just a thought looking at 2009.

I think with TB coming back he might run the ball more then we think especially early with TB getting back into game speed. I thought we ran the ball with the best of them late last season and hope that carries over to this season. I really think that BB is going to use 3-4 RBs this season with the hot guy getting the start. Between Taylor, Morris, Maroney and Faulk sprinkled in on third downs (I love this guy) would be very tough on opposing defenses. What may be lost in all this is how well Taylor blocks in the backfield and understands complex defensive schemes ALA Pittsburgh and Baltimore. With TB coming of surgery keeping him clean is going to be a top priority.

Maroney I remember having a pretty good game back in 07 against the Ravens when I was surprised he was in there on third down and not faulk. He caught a couple of passes for like 80 yards that day and was great in pass pro. Sammy Morris is a vet and BB loves this guy and between the three of these guys I think that BB will have each over 100 carries. We are not paying these guys a ton of money so to have a three headed monster sounds great to me. Not to mention that three of these guys are over 30 so I would like to keep their carries low. I would love to see Taylor with 150 - 200, Morris with 100 - 125 and Maroney with 100. Faulk would still get his 50-100 depending on injuries and system.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The poster DaBruinz is quoting points to a 4.1 ypc year with Maroney and compares it to a 4.4 ypc year without him but, apparently, he doesn't bother actually looking at the data.

Maroney averaged 4.5 ypc in his 13 game stint, not 4.1 or below. So, why the drop from Maroney's 4.5 down to a team average of 4.1?

Tom Brady - 37 carries, 2.6 y/a
Heath Evans - 34 carries, 3.6 y/a
Kyle Eckel - 33 carries, 2.7 y/a

Compare those numbers to last season, when Cassel was getting 3.7 y/a, Evans only had 11 carries and Eckel wasn't on the team.

That's a difference from 3.48 and 2.97 ypc just there alone. The bottom of the barrel running numbers were worse in 2007 than 2008. But let's blame it on Maroney.....

Very interesting disection of the baseline stats. Stats & numbers without throughtfull inspection of all the underlying factors can often be misleading. Great lesson. Great illustration. Taught me what I didn't know. Makes the site worth reading.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pats rushing game in 2007 1,849 yards 4.1 ypc. Maroney played in 13 games.
Pats rushing game in 2008 2,278 yards 4.4 ypc. Maroney played in 3 games.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

That's over 400 yards IMPROVEMENT in the running game by subtracting Maroney and giving his carries to other runningbacks. Riddle me that! I've heard of addition by subtraction but that's a huge difference.

Probably has something to do with Tom Brady throwing for like 5000 yards in 2007 versus transitioning to a balanced offense in 2008 with Cassel at QB. As far as not accounting for obvious variables goes, your complete failure on this one is pretty egregious.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Will this argument ever end?

 

[supafly]

Will this argument ever end?

This thread may end soon but there will be many other ones like it

 

[jmt57]

Will this argument ever end?

This thread may end soon but there will be many other ones like it

Laurence Maroney has stepped up and filled the void left on this website with last year's departure of Chad Jackson.

 

[Patjew]

Laurence Maroney has stepped up and filled the void left on this website with last year's departure of Chad Jackson.

Except Maroney has actually accomplished things worth discussing.