Maroney: "The Best Is Yet To Come"

[RobertWeathers]

They haven't even ATTEMPTED to make him carry the "full load" like other teams' RBs.

I completely agree that BB likes the Rb-by-comittee, but if he did have a elite back, he'd use him in a heartbeat. LoMo is not an elite back for 200+ carries for a slew of reasons. A big one is that he has not been able to stay healthy enough to be a 200 carry guy. If he had shown the ability and durability to be a 200-250 carry guy and have commensurate production, BB would keep him out there.

Yet you determine that he can't carry 200 times by the simple fact that he hasn't been asked to.

Yes- Because he has not shown the ability or durability to do so.

It's also very funny that you say this considering that if the last game of the season meant anything last year he was almost guaranteed to have gotten to that arbitrary magical number of 200.

But he hasn't- EVER. Hes been farily productive here, but it's always one thing or another with Maroney (injuries, pass-blocking, fumbling end of season in 2009, running not the way the coaches want him to, etc.).

Your should focus on your last sentence a little more. It IS what it IS, and whether Maroney could consistently carry 200+ times a season is UNKNOWN because he has never really been asked to. He averages 13 carries a game in his career (which has nothing to do with durability) which would make 208 if he played 16 games. That is barely on pace for that 200 mark, and it is NOT a "durability" thing. It's how they CHOOSE to use their RBs.

If LoMo had remained healthy for a full season here, he MAY have hit 200 carries. But for the last 4 years (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009- yep 4...seems like 20 years though) for one reason or another, hes never made it. I guarantee you BB wanted him to be THE feature back (1st round pick to prooves this), but hes never done it. Again, it's not a bad thing. Hes a solid RB-by-comitte guy. I'm glad hes here, but for a variety of reasons, he's just not a workhorse runner over a 16 game schedule.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Yeah, that's a pretty good RB, like I said.

You might be the most bias Maroney lover. No way in any shape can you call Maroney a "pretty good" RB. His ypc is below average, his total yardage is below average, his fumbles are high, and he is injury prone.

Maroney is mediocre.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, that's a pretty good RB, like I said.

You might be the most bias Maroney lover. No way in any shape can you call Maroney a "pretty good" RB. His ypc is below average, his total yardage is below average, his fumbles are high, and he is injury prone.

Maroney is mediocre.

Maroney didn't have a fumbling issue until last season. Even then, it wasn't as big of a problem as you just made it out to be. And why do you expect a 1,200 yard rusher in an offensive system that is CLEARLY pass first?

 

[Metaphors]

My expectations were high.

So let us know what Maroney needs to do to satisfy you. The only metrics that really matter are YPC, TDs and Fumbles (since he doesn't call the plays). You can include catches as well, but I doubt a lack of catches is Maroney's fault. Pass blocking is another important area and should be included if you can find a way to measure success.

There is a narrative around Maroney that is self-perpetuating. The only way to break out of a bias is to evaluate against clear and fair criteria. So put them down here and then you can revisit Maroney's contributions independent of the subjective "dancing", "indecisive", etc.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that Maroney is still only 25 years old. Hardly the time to be referring to his career in the past tense.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Maroney didn't have a fumbling issue until last season. Even then, it wasn't as big of a problem as you just made it out to be. And why do you expect a 1,200 yard rusher in an offensive system that is CLEARLY pass first?

I want an EFFECTIVE rusher. Last season Maroney with his 3.9 ypc and fumbling issues was INEFFECTIVE.

All four of the runningbacks behind Maroney had higher ypc, but it has to be the o-line.

 

[Kontradiction]

I want an EFFECTIVE rusher. Last season Maroney with his 3.9 ypc and fumbling issues was INEFFECTIVE.

All four of the runningbacks behind Maroney had higher ypc, but it has to be the o-line.

Clearly, the coaching staff disagreed with your assessment. Unless you want to think that they would put an "ineffective" running back in on goal line situations.

As for the other runners, every single one was stopped behind the LOS for negative yards a lot more than Maroney was.

 

[JackBauer]

Yeah, that's a pretty good RB, like I said.

You might be the most bias Maroney lover. No way in any shape can you call Maroney a "pretty good" RB. His ypc is below average, his total yardage is below average, his fumbles are high, and he is injury prone.

Maroney is mediocre.

Actually, Maroney has a career YPC of 4.2, which isn't bad for RB. And his fumbles are not "high."

 

[Mogamedogz]

#1 Texans. leading rusher Steve Slaton, 131 att 437 yards 3.3 per att 3 TD's

Only played 11 games, is not very good to begin with, but he still managed to contribute via 44 catches for 417yrds and 4 scores. Meaning he only had two yards less from Scrimmage than Lomo.

#2 colts. leading rusher Joseph Addai, 219 att 828 yards 3.8 yards per att 10 TD's

...and 51 catches for 336 and 3 scores

#3 pats. leading rusher Laurence Maroney, 194 att 757 yards 3.9 yards per att 9 TD's

14 catches for 99yrds, 0 TD's.

#4 saints leading rusher Pierre Thomas, 172 att 793 yards 5.4 yards per att 6 TD's

So less attempts, more yards, higher YPC...and let us not forget his 39 catches for 302 and 2 TD's.

#5 san digeo. leading rusher LaDainian Tomlinson, 223 att 730 yards 3.3 yards per att 12 TD's

LT2 is washed up and I hate him so I wont even try making a case for him.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I hope he's right. We need him this year if we have hopes of being a balanced offense.

 

[emoney_33]

I completely agree that BB likes the Rb-by-comittee, but if he did have a elite back, he'd use him in a heartbeat.

BB does his own shopping, he hasn't even tried to get an elite carry-the-load back.

LoMo is not an elite back for 200+ carries for a slew of reasons. A big one is that he has not been able to stay healthy enough to be a 200 carry guy. If he had shown the ability and durability to be a 200-250 carry guy and have commensurate production, BB would keep him out there.

He is not an elite back you are right, but there is nothing in his NFL career that agrees with your statement about his durability. Once again he has averaged 13 carries per game, which has nothing to do with durability. (Hint: if he averaged 14.3 carries per game he'd hit 200 in 14 games, 15.4 and he'd reach it in 13 games - aside from an IR year he's always played at least 13 games) RBs get dinged up, he hasn't consistently missed significant time.

Yes- Because he has not shown the ability or durability to do so.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But he hasn't- EVER. Hes been farily productive here, but it's always one thing or another with Maroney (injuries, pass-blocking, fumbling end of season in 2009, running not the way the coaches want him to, etc.).

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are usually on top of things but are way off the mark here. Maroney did not get injured last year, he had a single 3-game stretch toward the end of the season where he fumbled, he's never going to be great pass-blocking, and he was held out of the last game because it was meaningless. (He and Faulk needed rest more than the other RBs who needed work)

If LoMo had remained healthy for a full season here, he MAY have hit 200 carries. But for the last 4 years (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009- yep 4...seems like 20 years though) for one reason or another, hes never made it.

He remained healthy last year, he was 6 carries away from your ridiculous arbitrary number that you are stuck on and was held out of the last game to REST for the playoffs. While healthy he has never been asked to carry the load as evidenced by his 13 carries per game played.

I guarantee you BB wanted him to be THE feature back (1st round pick to prooves this), but hes never done it.

I guarantee you he does not want this. Did BB call you and tell you that he expects a RB picked in the 1st round to carry the load? BB's actions for 5 years are clear, he prefers RBBC (at least while he has Brady).

Again, it's not a bad thing. Hes a solid RB-by-comitte guy. I'm glad hes here, but for a variety of reasons, he's just not a workhorse runner over a 16 game schedule.

Right, he's not a workhorse, that's not the argument. You continue to argue that he simply -cannot- be a workhorse, which cannot be proven or disproven as he's never been asked to be a workhorse.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I hope he's right.

VERY :goodposting:

 

[emoney_33]

Only played 11 games, is not very good to begin with, but he still managed to contribute via 44 catches for 417yrds and 4 scores. ...snip...

You completely missed the point that 1000 yards is an arbitrary number and that top passing teams do not normally have a top RB that gets a high number of carries. Chicken and egg perhaps, but that's what it is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB does his own shopping, he hasn't even tried to get an elite carry-the-load back.

Agreed on all prior acquisitions but LoMo was a mid 1st round pick. He wanted him to be THE guy.

He is not an elite back you are right, but there is nothing in his NFL career that agrees with your statement about his durability. Once again he has averaged 13 carries per game, which has nothing to do with durability. (Hint: if he averaged 14.3 carries per game he'd hit 200 in 14 games, 15.4 and he'd reach it in 13 games - aside from an IR year he's always played at least 13 games) RBs get dinged up, he hasn't consistently missed significant time.

hes been hurt a lot, emoney. Missed time in 06, 07, allof 08. He was hurt for a little last year too. All RBs get dinged up ,but he's been held out by BB or he can't play.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All well and good but IMO the real world it doesnt work this way. If I'm an NFL exec (thankfully not), based on 4 years worth of data, it tells me that LoMo is not a top-level RB.

You are usually on top of things but are way off the mark here. Maroney did not get injured last year, he had a single 3-game stretch toward the end of the season where he fumbled, he's never going to be great pass-blocking, and he was held out of the last game because it was meaningless. (He and Faulk needed rest more than the other RBs who needed work)

He was pretty healthy last year.1st time in his career.

He remained healthy last year, he was 6 carries away from your ridiculous arbitrary number that you are stuck on and was held out of the last game to REST for the playoffs. While healthy he has never been asked to carry the load as evidenced by his 13 carries per game played.)

You assume it was to rest. I assume otherwise.

I guarantee you he does not want this. Did BB call you and tell you that he expects a RB picked in the 1st round to carry the load? BB's actions for 5 years are clear, he prefers RBBC (at least while he has Brady). .)

Yes ;-). I assume drafting a RB mid 1st round he expects a feature back & probowler. C'mon now.

Right, he's not a workhorse, that's not the argument. You continue to argue that he simply -cannot- be a workhorse, which cannot be proven or disproven as he's never been asked to be a workhorse.

OK Lets qualify. 200+ carries does not equal workhorse. 202 carries does not equal workhorse. 230 carries seems pretty close. 250+ no question. I agree.

I thought the discussion was that LoMo has not evolved into a feature back because of who he is as opposed to being the Rb by comitte approach. No?

 

[Deus Irae]

The silliness of the anti-Maroney bleaters is reaching new heights. Let's try, one last time, to inject a bit of reason.

1.) Passing situations belong to Faulk, eliminating 1/3 of the downs off the bat. This cuts down on both receiving opportunities and draw carries.


2.) In 2009, Maroney was #11 in the NFL in efficiency:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2009


3.) In 2008, Maroney missed most of the season due to injury


4.) IN 2007, Maroney was #2 in the NFL in efficiency:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2007


5.) Even in 2006, his rookie season, Maroney was #19 in the NFL in efficiency (Dillon was #5):

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2006

Note that Dillon was #9 in 2005 and #5 in 2004


6.) Maroney has only 5 fumbles in 4 seasons (582 carries), for less than 1 fumble per 100 carries.

 

[The Brandon Five]

6.) Maroney has only 5 fumbles in 4 seasons (582 carries), for less than 1 fumble per 100 carries.

Yep. That was what made it surprising. Before last year, he hadn't lost a ball since his rookie season. Not sure why he suddenly got the dropsies last year when he had four of those five fumbles. That is probably where the perception that he is prone to fumbles came from.

 

[emoney_33]

Agreed on all prior acquisitions but LoMo was a mid 1st round pick. He wanted him to be THE guy.

I guess if YOU say so... Let's just agree to disagree.

hes been hurt a lot, emoney. Missed time in 06, 07, allof 08. He was hurt for a little last year too. All RBs get dinged up ,but he's been held out by BB or he can't play.

2006: torn rib cartilage, missed 2 games
2007: groin injury, missed 3 games
2008: broken shoulder, IR
2009: no injuries

It's not exactly unheard of for an NFL RB to be hurt and dinged up. And aside from a broken shoulder, there haven't been major issues and most recently he didn't get hurt at all last year while seeing the most carries of his career.

I would not classify Maroney as being hurt a lot. Sammy Morris is hurt a lot.

You assume it was to rest. I assume otherwise.

Except my "assumption" makes a ton more sense, for example:

* Faulk rested as well
* Maroney was in for the first snap of the playoff game (100 X more important than game 16)

Yes ;-). I assume drafting a RB mid 1st round he expects a feature back & probowler. C'mon now.

Assume all you want, but BB has had 5 years to find a feature back, he has NOT tried. The evidence clearly points in the other direction, but keep being hung up on your personal opinions of what he had to have been looking for. BB has never even attempted to make Maroney a workhorse, yet you "assume" that because of where he was drafted that's what BB wanted.

I thought the discussion was that LoMo has not evolved into a feature back because of who he is as opposed to being the Rb by comittee approach. No?

That's one part of what you have proclaimed, and I disagree with it. If they wanted him to be the feature back, they wouldn't have been splitting his carries since his rookie season. They would have at least attempted to make him the feature back.

BTW The Patriots ranked 3rd in rushing yards out of the top 16 teams by passing yards. (only NO and DAL eclipsed 2000 yards rushing). While 8 of the bottom 16 passing teams eclipsed 2000 yards rushing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I guess if YOU say so... Let's just agree to disagree.




2006: torn rib cartilage, missed 2 games
2007: groin injury, missed 3 games
2008: broken shoulder, IR
2009: no injuries

It's not exactly unheard of for an NFL RB to be hurt and dinged up. And aside from a broken shoulder, there haven't been major issues and most recently he didn't get hurt at all last year while seeing the most carries of his career. .

I would not classify Maroney as being hurt a lot. Sammy Morris is hurt a lot.

Out of a possible 64games, he missed 19. Thats 30%. Thats JD Drew. Granted 13 were from 1 year but it still needs to be factored in to the assessment of his durabilty.

Except my "assumption" makes a ton more sense, for example:

* Faulk rested as well
* Maroney was in for the first snap of the playoff game (100 X more important than game 16)

He sucked eggs vs JAX and was benched. Brady played. Welker played. Ws Maroney rested b/c he was overworked or hurt. Can't have it both ways, emoney.

Assume all you want, but BB has had 5 years to find a feature back, he has NOT tried. The evidence clearly points in the other direction, but keep being hung up on your personal opinions of what he had to have been looking for. BB has never even attempted to make Maroney a workhorse, yet you "assume" that because of where he was drafted that's what BB wanted. )

You have no idea if he tried or not. Although i'll practice what I preach and say he hasn't b/c we don't have a Dillon on the roster but rumor is that he wanted the kid SD drafted if he was in the right spot. fact is that he got a Dillon and ran him and Smithand were productive We know he drafted LoMo in the middle of the 1st round. You are making the assertion that he drafted him to be a RB by comitte guy. No?

That's one part of what you have proclaimed, and I disagree with it. If they wanted him to be the feature back, they wouldn't have been splitting his carries since his rookie season. They would have at least attempted to make him the feature back. )

Hes a #1 pick!!! You are telling me BB NEVER wanted him to evolve and mature into a feature back. C'mon.

BTW The Patriots ranked 3rd in rushing yards out of the top 16 teams by passing yards. (only NO and DAL eclipsed 2000 yards rushing). While 8 of the bottom 16 passing teams eclipsed 2000 yards rushing.

Positional production is not the issue (for the most part but i'm not totally comfortable with their running game anyway in 2009). The evolution of LoMo as a feature back is.

 

[Triumph]

If the best doesnt come, Maroney will be down the road in 2011.

Because I think the Pats will cut their losses like they did with Watson and Graham and move on.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If the best doesnt come, Maroney will be down the road in 2011.

Because I think the Pats will cut their losses like they did with Watson and Graham and move on.

Problem is we don't know his best or what he is fully capable of. If LoMo is late 2007, i'd love it and so would BB.

Pats have a RBBC approach for reasons that both emoney and I have highlighted as possibilities.

 

[Mogamedogz]

You completely missed the point that 1000 yards is an arbitrary number and that top passing teams do not normally have a top RB that gets a high number of carries. Chicken and egg perhaps, but that's what it is.

I wasnt arguing the 1000yrd mark, I was arguing the productivity/contribution. I know that not everyone is gonna put up numbers like Edgerrin James in '04 or Marshall Faulk in '99.