Maroney: "The Best Is Yet To Come"

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Let me ask all of you this....

If Maroney were to retire this year (situational question,not real),how would you classify his 4 year career?

1) Above average back who did more than expected

2) Average RB,nothing to write home about but not too bad

3) Below average,dissapointing and a waste of a #1 pick -4 years of crap

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let me ask all of you this....

If Maroney were to retire this year (situational question,not real),how would you classify his 4 year career?

1) Above average back who did more than expected

2) Average RB,nothing to write home about but not too bad

3) Below average,dissapointing and a waste of a #1 pick -4 years of crap

#2

Whats wild is that with a 800 yd season, he'll be behind Curtis Martin as #5 all-time leading rusher in Pats history.

 

[Kontradiction]

Let me ask all of you this....

If Maroney were to retire this year (situational question,not real),how would you classify his 4 year career?

1) Above average back who did more than expected

2) Average RB,nothing to write home about but not too bad

3) Below average,dissapointing and a waste of a #1 pick -4 years of crap

Out of that list, I would go with number two. However, I would say that with the very strong possibility that he could have acheived number one had he been in a run-first offense with better blocking.

 

[Metaphors]

Let me ask all of you this....

If Maroney were to retire this year (situational question,not real),how would you classify his 4 year career?

1) Above average back who did more than expected

2) Average RB,nothing to write home about but not too bad

3) Below average,dissapointing and a waste of a #1 pick -4 years of crap

4) None of the above

2 years of solid development (not typical 1st round RB production, but did what the Pats asked of him)
+
1 injury year
+
1 year of improved RB technique, sabotaged by unsteady offense and untimely fumbles

None of your options capture this. This year, the offense should be more steady (would be better with Mankins though) and Maroney should have spent the offseason working on his ball handling. He is also 25 years old so he is entering a prime period of maximizing physical development and game experience. I think it will be easier to generalize his overall production after this year. Just in time for a new contract...with the Pats or elsewhere.

 

[emoney_33]

Out of a possible 64games, he missed 19. Thats 30%. Thats JD Drew. Granted 13 were from 1 year but it still needs to be factored in to the assessment of his durabilty.

stop grasping.

He sucked eggs vs JAX and was benched. Brady played. Welker played. Ws Maroney rested b/c he was overworked or hurt. Can't have it both ways, emoney.

Sucked eggs vs JAX? 5 carries 22 yards. He fumbled on the last play of the drive and didn't play again. That coincided with Fred Taylor's first game back after 3 months. While I think they benched him PARTLY for the fumble that game, I think it was also partly because they absolutely needed to get Fred Taylor some game time.

He was neither overworked nor hurt, unless you think the same of Faulk? Punishing him for the last 2 games and then starting him in the playoffs makes absolutely no sense if they thought he was sucking.

You have no idea if he tried or not.

huh? We have 4 years of evidence on exactly how BB has used Maroney. None of that points to a desire to feed him the ball 15-20 times a game consistently. He has produced reasonably well when he's played so it's not like they've 'limited' his carries because he has sucked.

Although i'll practice what I preach and say he hasn't b/c we don't have a Dillon on the roster but rumor is that he wanted the kid SD drafted if he was in the right spot. fact is that he got a Dillon and ran him and Smithand were productive We know he drafted LoMo in the middle of the 1st round. You are making the assertion that he drafted him to be a RB by comitte guy. No?

I'm not making any assertions of why he was drafted. YOU are making the assertion that he was drafted to be the feature workhorse. I don't think BB really drafts anyone with the expectations of them being something like a feature workhorse. He drafts the best player on the board for their team and goes from there. Let's not make this into arguing about BB's mind, it's pointless.

Hes a #1 pick!!! You are telling me BB NEVER wanted him to evolve and mature into a feature back. C'mon.

Maybe, maybe not. For 5 years he has not tried to make him the feature back, so I lean towards the maybe not.

Positional production is not the issue (for the most part but i'm not totally comfortable with their running game anyway in 2009). The evolution of LoMo as a feature back is.

That's because you have some odd notion that LoMo was drafted to be a stud feature RB. That's what YOU wanted, I don't think that's necessarily the reason they drafted him. I'm also very confident that he could carry 200+ times a season if that's what they wanted.

He's not elite, and they probably hoped he'd be better (as I assume they would hope that every body on their team would be as good as possible). Hoping and expecting are two different things.

 

[emoney_33]

I wasnt arguing the 1000yrd mark, I was arguing the productivity/contribution. I know that not everyone is gonna put up numbers like Edgerrin James in '04 or Marshall Faulk in '99.

You quoted a post that was debunking the 1000 yard mark on top passing teams, so it logically follows that a point regarding those numbers would be arguing that same topic/context. The numbers were brought up to prove a certain point, of which had nothing to do with how Maroney's skills/abilities stacked up against those guys.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We'll respectfully disagree on the rest as I've excluded it, but I need to call you out on this one.

(I assume they would hope that every body on their team would be as good as possible). Hoping and expecting are two different things.

What are you saying? That BB drafts someone in the mid #1st round because they HOPE hes good and subsequently throw a ton of money at him?

In drafts, you EXPECT a high-level of performance with a mid-1st round pick.

You HOPE for a good performance with a 5th round rick.

If BB wanted a RBBC system kid, he'd draft him in the 3rd-5th round.

BB gushed over LoMo when he picked him. He wanted him to be THE guy and Dillon's heir-apparent.

I have no doubt on this.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Let me ask all of you this....

If Maroney were to retire this year (situational question,not real),how would you classify his 4 year career?

1) Above average back who did more than expected

2) Average RB,nothing to write home about but not too bad

3) Below average,dissapointing and a waste of a #1 pick -4 years of crap

#2 but considering the talent in that draft class I would include "disapointing" and as of right now... a waste of a first round pick. Maybe not a wasted pick in other years... but in that pool it's hard not think of him as a wasted pick if he doesnt show up this season and they let him walk in 2011.

I dont think he was four years of crap. That's for sure.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You might be the most bias Maroney lover. No way in any shape can you call Maroney a "pretty good" RB. His ypc is below average, his total yardage is below average, his fumbles are high, and he is injury prone.

Maroney is mediocre.

Man, you know you're pretty far out on the extreme when you have to label someone else as "the most 'bias' Maroney lover" because I insist that he's a pretty good RB. I don't even think he's the best RB on the team, when healthy (that would be Taylor). But he has the best combination of talent and durability, he knows the offense, he works hard, and he does his job. In other words, he's better than your average NFL running back.

Moving the middle doesn't work against people who have an ounce of common sense, so I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. The bottom line is that, if he was half as bad as you say he is, the Pats wouldn't give him as many touches as they do.

 

[emoney_33]

We'll respectfully disagree on the rest as I've excluded it, but I need to call you out on this one.



What are you saying? That BB drafts someone in the mid #1st round because they HOPE hes good and subsequently throw a ton of money at him?

In drafts, you EXPECT a high-level of performance with a mid-1st round pick.

You HOPE for a good performance with a 5th round rick.

If BB wanted a RBBC system kid, he'd draft him in the 3rd-5th round.

BB gushed over LoMo when he picked him. He wanted him to be THE guy and Dillon's heir-apparent.

I have no doubt on this.

I disagree that BB drafted him to be Dillon's heir-apparent. They are completely different types of RBs. Reggie Bush wasn't drafted to be a workhorse either ya know.

I mean yes obviously you have higher expectations for 1st round vs. 5th round, but I don't think a 1st round RB is automatically expected to be THE guy no ifs, ands or buts about it.

I am simply refuting the notion that he was drafted to be THE guy based on 4 years of evidence of them not even trying to use him as THE guy.

He played well splitting with Dillon in 06, and was immediately splitting with Morris on 07, while breaking his shoulder in 08. I don't see a single thing that points to them wanting him to be THE guy. They have used him the same way since he was a rookie, splitting carries with a north-south runner. They signed Morris to a 4-year deal in 07 (to replace Dillon).

All the hard-evidence disputes your idea that he was drafted to be THE guy and Dillon's heir-apparent.

 

[JackBauer]

#2 but considering the talent in that draft class I would include "disapointing" and as of right now... a waste of a first round pick. Maybe not a wasted pick in other years... but in that pool it's hard not think of him as a wasted pick if he doesnt show up this season and they let him walk in 2011.

I dont think he was four years of crap. That's for sure.

Huh?

To my eyes, the 2006 draft was pretty mediocre, particularly the mid-to-late first round.

 

[BradyFTW!]

#2 but considering the talent in that draft class I would include "disapointing" and as of right now... a waste of a first round pick. Maybe not a wasted pick in other years... but in that pool it's hard not think of him as a wasted pick if he doesnt show up this season and they let him walk in 2011.

I dont think he was four years of crap. That's for sure.

If a guy starts 4 years for you, including for the highest-scoring offense of all time, I dunno how you can call that a wasted pick. You've been more than a little spoiled by the Pats' recent drafting success. Not every first rounder is going to be a pro bowler. It's an impossible expectation. Guys like Daniel Graham and Ben Watson and Laurence Maroney, while they don't fulfill all of their potentials, are hardly a waste.

 

[Metaphors]

6.) Maroney has only 5 fumbles in 4 seasons (582 carries), for less than 1 fumble per 100 carries.

I'm with you on all your other points, but this is a case where averaging can be used to disguise an issue. Maroney lost 4 fumbles over 7 games (113 carries). At some pretty key times as well.

Providing even more context, all of the fumbles (I believe) were not lost while he was in motion...but when he was stopped in a pile. Doesn't excuse the mistakes, but may make the situation easier to resolve since he can focus/practice situationally instead of having to change everything about how he runs the ball, like Tiki Barber had to.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I disagree that BB drafted him to be Dillon's heir-apparent. They are completely different types of RBs. Reggie Bush wasn't drafted to be a workhorse either ya know. .

I'll give you this one. No way Sean Payton thought RB was a 250 carry guy. He got him for his ability to break open plays. I do think that BB saw LoMo as a LT minus the 300+ carries but having a more prominant role in the offense which I believe is around 200-250 carries a year (almost 16 carries a game. ) but IMO that is feature-back status.

I mean yes obviously you have higher expectations for 1st round vs. 5th round, but I don't think a 1st round RB is automatically expected to be THE guy no ifs, ands or buts about it. .

I respectfully disagree. Moving on. With that said, every team has priorities (see Buffalo drafting a 3rd down/gamebreker in the 1st round this year)

I am simply refuting the notion that he was drafted to be THE guy based on 4 years of evidence of them not even trying to use him as THE guy.

He played well splitting with Dillon in 06, and was immediately splitting with Morris on 07, while breaking his shoulder in 08. I don't see a single thing that points to them wanting him to be THE guy. They have used him the same way since he was a rookie, splitting carries with a north-south runner. They signed Morris to a 4-year deal in 07 (to replace Dillon). .

Replace Dillon? As the N/S runner or Feature-back?

All the hard-evidence disputes your idea that he was drafted to be THE guy and Dillon's heir-apparent.

We'll disagree on the evidence. I stand by BB wanting LoMo in the 1st rd to be his feature back. Especially in 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 having RBs w/ over 200+ carries. He had the guys that he was confident enough and healthy enough to execute. He expected LoMo to produce at a very high level.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Huh?

To my eyes, the 2006 draft was pretty mediocre, particularly the mid-to-late first round.

Seriously? Here are a list of players that could have been had with that first and/or second round pick we spent on Lomo and CJack. Who on this list would you NOT trade Maroney for right now straight up if you could?

DeAngelo Williams
Nick Mangold
Joseph Addai (though i rate him and Maroney about the same, Addai is far supperior in pass protection and rec)
DeMeco Ryans
Greg Jennings
Devin Hester
Maurice Jones-Drew
Owen Daniels
Jahri Evans
Leon Washington
Brandon Marshall
Elvis Dummervil
Antoine Bethea
Cortland Finnegan
Roman Harper
Marques Colston

 

[emoney_33]

Replace Dillon? As the N/S runner or Feature-back?

Clearly as the N/S runner, which Maroney is NOT.

We'll disagree on the evidence. I stand by BB wanting LoMo in the 1st rd to be his feature back. Especially in 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 having RBs w/ over 200+ carries. He had the guys that he was confident enough and healthy enough to execute.

You have not provided much evidence at all. Your evidence so far is "he was picked in the 1st round of a relatively weak draft so therefore they wish he was THE feature back".

He was a rookie in 2006 and split with Dillon (they did not try to phase Dillon out at any point). In 2007 they signed Morris to a FOUR year contract and immediately from game 1 split carries with Maroney. In 2007 we also happen to have the best passing offense in the history of the league, but they had no problem on calling on Maroney late in the season and into the playoffs. In 2008 he broke his shoulder and missed virtually the entire year. In 2009 they signed Fred Taylor and immediately begin sharing the workload between the 3 (mainly Taylor and Maroney). When Taylor and Morris got hurt they had no problem giving it to Maroney 17 times a game. For whatever reason Maroney went through a rough stretch where he fumbled a few times. Circumstance in the last 2 games prevented Maroney from getting many carries. The coincidence of circumstance and fumbles have led people to incorrectly jump to the wrong conclusion, mistaking correlation with causation.

They have NOT hesitated to give Maroney the ball 15-20 times in games that warranted it, including playoffs. And here we are today, they have gone out and gotten NOBODY to replace their RBBC.

 

[Mogamedogz]

If a guy starts 4 years for you, including for the highest-scoring offense of all time, I dunno how you can call that a wasted pick. You've been more than a little spoiled by the Pats' recent drafting success. Not every first rounder is going to be a pro bowler. It's an impossible expectation. Guys like Daniel Graham and Ben Watson and Laurence Maroney, while they don't fulfill all of their potentials, are hardly a waste.

Maybe "wasted pick" is a bad choice of words... I'll just say that they "missed" on the pick (so far). I think that is fair to say. You may disagree with it, that's fair too.

Again... he just turned 25 I think, so he still has plenty of time to breakout. He very well could become a stud RB in the league. If the talent evaluators see that kind of maturation in him, and he puts up an average maroney type season... Maybe we resign him for small $$ and he absolutely blows up for the next 3-4 years. I wouldnt be surprised by that at all. RB's seem to peak between 25-28. There is still plenty of hope.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Clearly as the N/S runner, which Maroney is NOT..

Thats fine. Just making you you haven't completely lost your senses.

You have not provided much evidence at all. Your evidence so far is "he was picked in the 1st round of a relatively weak draft so therefore they wish he was THE feature back". ..

BB does not pick players in slots if he doesn't think that they are worthy of the slot's value or the player's value as it relates to the slot. If he thought LoMo wasn't worth mid 1st, he wouldn't have picked him. C'mon.

He was a rookie in 2006 and split with Dillon (they did not try to phase Dillon out at any point). In 2007 they signed Morris to a FOUR year contract and immediately from game 1 split carries with Maroney. In 2007 we also happen to have the best passing offense in the history of the league, but they had no problem on calling on Maroney late in the season and into the playoffs. In 2008 he broke his shoulder and missed virtually the entire year. In 2009 they signed Fred Taylor and immediately begin sharing the workload between the 3 (mainly Taylor and Maroney). When Taylor and Morris got hurt they had no problem giving it to Maroney 17 times a game. For whatever reason Maroney went through a rough stretch where he fumbled a few times. Circumstance in the last 2 games prevented Maroney from getting many carries. The coincidence of circumstance and fumbles have led people to incorrectly jump to the wrong conclusion, mistaking correlation with causation...

We've covered this ground and we will disagree forever. I'll go on record that LoMo will NEVER hit 200+ carries because for many reasons outside of RBBC approach, he does not have the durabilty, running style or overall game to warrant a workload greater than what he has shown.

They have NOT hesitated to give Maroney the ball 15-20 times in games that warranted it, including playoffs. And here we are today, they have gone out and gotten NOBODY to replace their RBBC.

History has proven that BB will give LoMo 20 carries + if the game's flow warrants it. He will not, nor has LoMo proven over a 16 game schedule to be a feature back. My assertion is that because LoMo has not acended to feature back status (starting with easing Dillon's workload in 06) because of all the reasons I have mentioned in previous posts.

 

[emoney_33]

We've covered this ground and we will disagree forever. I'll go on record that LoMo will NEVER hit 200+ carries because for many reasons outside of RBBC approach, he does not have the durabilty, running style or overall game to warrant a workload greater than what he has shown.

It only makes you look petty when you say this coming off a year in which he had 194 carries while being rested in the last meaningless game of the season. You can continue to "disagree" but have not offered a single bit of counter evidence. You simply "disagree" and run back to his draft round.

The Patriots valued McCourty higher than they chose him, but they were able to trade down and still get him because they were confident no one was going to select him before that.

For all we know BB could have valued Chad Jackson more than Maroney but didn't feel Maroney would last until round 2 while CJack would. It's extremely naive to believe that where a player was picked indicates their exact perfect-world value of the player.

History has proven that BB will give LoMo 20 carries + if the game's flow warrants it. He will not, nor has LoMo proven over a 16 game schedule to be a feature back. My assertion is that because LoMo has not acended to feature back status (starting with easing Dillon's workload in 06) because of all the reasons I have mentioned in previous posts.

Once again, you offer 0 evidence and just go on this idea you have of what you feel BB wants. Starting in 2006 when he was drafted they have consistently split Maroney's carries with a N/S runner and have not once even tried to make Maroney the one single feature back. If they WANTED him to be the feature back, they would NOT have gotten Morris in 2007 and immediately started splitting carries.

And please, enough with this appeal to ignorance. The fact that he hasn't been used as a feature back is NOT proof that he is incapable of being a "feature" back.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It only makes you look petty when you say this coming off a year in which he had 194 carries while being rested in the last meaningless game of the season. You can continue to "disagree" but have not offered a single bit of counter evidence. You simply "disagree" and run back to his draft round. .

God sakes. If the arguement is fact-based, I win. If it's hypothetical, you win.

The Patriots valued McCourty higher than they chose him, but they were able to trade down and still get him because they were confident no one was going to select him before that. .

You've seen the draft board? Good for you.

For all we know BB could have valued Chad Jackson more than Maroney but didn't feel Maroney would last until round 2 while CJack would. It's extremely naive to believe that where a player was picked indicates their exact perfect-world value of the player. .

BB does it best he can to get appopriate value based based on projections for the player. At the time BB did not think he was reaching on Maroney.

Once again, you offer 0 evidence and just go on this idea you have of what you feel BB wants. .

Starting in 2006 when he was drafted they have consistently split Maroney's carries with a N/S runner and have not once even tried to make Maroney the one single feature back. If they WANTED him to be the feature back, they would NOT have gotten Morris in 2007 and immediately started splitting carries. .

You are making the assumption that in the offseason prior to 07, BB's vision was to run Morris 150+ times even though he had only ran for over 100 times ONCE (2004). You can have an RB w/ 220 or so carries and a backup w/ 100 and another one with 60 (Faulk). BB wanted LoMo to emerge. Didn't happen.

And please, enough with this appeal to ignorance. The fact that he hasn't been used as a feature back is NOT proof that he is incapable of being a "feature" back.

Hasn't been proven.