Logan Mankins Traded

[kennyb]

Nobody said anything about "rights". The point is that they traded Mankins because they no longer wanted to pay him what they had previously agreed to pay him. Mankins is a principled guy and wanted to get the compensation stated in his contract. Which he is.

They never agreed to pay him anything but the signing bonus, technically. The salaries are amounts they WOULD have to pay him to keep him off of the FA market. They are basically team options and the salaries are strike prices they have to pay for a year's service. If they don't exercise an option, then the whole rest of contract goes kaput.

Or they can trade him.

But they never "agreed" they'd pay him the contract "salary" in 2014 or any year.

 

[VrabelJr]

FWIW, Rich Hill from Pats Pulpit said that Wright added 15 pounds over the offseason :

Rich Hill ‏@PP_Rich_Hill6 mins
Can we all start agreeing that Tim Wright is 235 pounds? Weighed 220 at the combine, but put on 15 over the summer. Still adjusting to it.

I also found a tweet from October 14th of last year from an Tampa Bay Buccaneers official writer saying Tim Wright was 235 pounds last season

https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/389836489552449536

Greg AumanVerified account ‏@gregauman
Bucs rookie Tim Wright (Rutgers) enjoying transition from WR to TE -- was 218 at pro day, now carrying about 235 pounds at new position.

 

[Bruins29]

I didn't see this Grantland article posted; it's a pretty interesting take:

The Genius and Stupidity of Bill Belichick

Two things I dont agree with in the article.

The spare parts comment is silly. Spare parts? Sorry, every team has some sort of a spare part or JAG or what we might call an up and coming player at some position. A team with Brady, Vollmer, Mayo, Wilfork, Edelman, Gronk, Revis and Dmac is going to have to accept that some of the other positions are not going to have superstars. Its pick your poison.

The comment about losing when it counts is ridiculous. Injuries have played a huge role in the playoff record of this team. It is part of the game obviously but the context of the article just removes that from the equation and you cant.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

By the way, in the response above, I elided the role of Tim Wright in this trade. Wasn't last year his rookie year? Wasn't he playing for the Bucs?

You guys remember that "magical off-season" where we picked up Donte Stallworth and we were like "WOO HOO somebody who might have more talent than Reche Caldwell!"? Then we picked up Randy Moss for cheap, oh yeah and some returner guy named Welker?

I have the same feeling about Wright as I had about Welker... Well, he didn't totally wash out down in Florida, maybe there's something there.

I'm not writing off the possibility of "there's something special about this guy," given that he had a respectable first season in a Crap offense. But yeah it looks mainly like a cap space move.

 

[Nunchucks]

You dont absolutely know that. Which is why its comical that people are claiming there is no clear placement for LM. How do we know this? Were you at training camp talking to BB about it. Seriously you would think if they diddnt have a contingent plan they wouldnt have made the trade.

The other side of this is that you could also make the claim that Wright "could" be the best TE we have this year? Would someone like to argue that with me?

You could absolutely be correct in your assessment. We really do not know. Perhaps Mankins play has declined so much this year that a half of a sandwich would play better than him and perhaps Wright is the next Jimmy Graham....these are certainly possibilities.

Sure, they are unlikely.....but certainly possible. I might win a hundred million dollars in the lottery this year....who knows?

 

[Sicilian]

You could absolutely be correct in your assessment. We really do not know. Perhaps Mankins play has declined so much this year that a half of a sandwich would play better than him and perhaps Wright is the next Jimmy Graham....these are certainly possibilities.

Sure, they are unlikely.....but certainly possible. I might win a hundred million dollars in the lottery this year....who knows?

It doesn't have to be anywhere near that drastic. Why use such extreme examples? If Kline can play solid (not as good as Mankins, but solid) and Wright chips in with 40 catches (decidedly NOT Jimmy Graham, as your ridiculous scenario seems to demand), is the offense better off? It's not a cut and dry argument, and neither one of your dream scenarios needs to happen for this to be a good trade.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Two things I dont agree with in the article.

The spare parts comment is silly. Spare parts? Sorry, every team has some sort of a spare part or JAG or what we might call an up and coming player at some position. A team with Brady, Vollmer, Mayo, Wilfork, Edelman, Gronk, Revis and Dmac is going to have to accept that some of the other positions are not going to have superstars. Its pick your poison.

The comment about losing when it counts is ridiculous. Injuries have played a huge role in the playoff record of this team. It is part of the game obviously but the context of the article just removes that from the equation and you cant.

The difference b/t/w winning and losing is ridiculously close. Just like with the first 3 SB wins(all decided by a FG w/ 2 in the final seconds), a BS helmet catch and uncalled in the grasp, hurt Gronk and butterfingers WW could have easily made it 6 banners hanging in Foxboro.

 

[Nunchucks]

It doesn't have to be anywhere near that drastic. Why use such extreme examples? If Kline can play solid (not as good as Mankins, but solid) and Wright chips in with 40 catches (decidedly NOT Jimmy Graham, as your ridiculous scenario seems to demand), is the offense better off? It's not a cut and dry argument, and neither one of your dream scenarios needs to happen for this to be a good trade.

I just don't think they are a better team this year. I understand the reason for the trade, just think that the Patriots would be better with Mankins. It is not like the Patriots are lacking receiving options.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Two things I dont agree with in the article.

The spare parts comment is silly. Spare parts? Sorry, every team has some sort of a spare part or JAG or what we might call an up and coming player at some position. A team with Brady, Vollmer, Mayo, Wilfork, Edelman, Gronk, Revis and Dmac is going to have to accept that some of the other positions are not going to have superstars. Its pick your poison.

I'd add, how many times have you seen a BB team develop a "spare part" into a minor (or even major) star? The Welker example from the 07 offseason immediately comes to mind: The "oh yeah we got him too" acquisition that turned out to be a display of vision rather than overpaying.

So I wouldn't jump to "spare part" conclusions until we see more of this team on the field. One advantage that has pertained for NE for stretches of years at a time: We have to have a really crap year to be in a division dogfight.

For most teams you get the preseason, then it's a fight for your life... for the Pats you have enough "cushion" to get it right over a couple more games if necessary. I'm not saying they're complacent so much as capable/confident of developing how the parts fit together optimally before the season that counts, the post-season.

The comment about losing when it counts is ridiculous. Injuries have played a huge role in the playoff record of this team. It is part of the game obviously but the context of the article just removes that from the equation and you cant.

You can't remove it from the equation, but the truth is that to be the SB winner you have to be the best of 32 teams. Do it twice running, and all else being equal, reducing it to pure chance, it's roughly a 1 in 1000 shot. So we all know that all else is not equal, but you're still unlikely to get it more than once in a decade, even as an elite franchise. It happens, but it's not the NFL "model," it's an unusual thing.

All those forms that the "magic" takes (or does not take) play into it: Helmet traps, "convenient flags" (has happened for us AND against us,) etc. And yes, injuries.

Agree the "losing when it counts" is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong - for 10 years, it's been true. But "when it counts" is every game, once you're talking playoffs -- and even the majority of teams that don't make the playoffs can be on the bubble to the final week these days. Many of them lost "when it counts" too.

Every team except for one very good one, and a few wretched ones who lose all the time, "lose when it counts" every year.

For a good team, you lose "when it counts" every year... except for those magical years when you don't.

Morning core-dump, please excuse me.

 

[Sicilian]

I just don't think they are a better team this year. I understand the reason for the trade, just think that the Patriots would be better with Mankins. It is not like the Patriots are lacking receiving options.

Fair enough. Time will tell either way.

 

[spo]

Hi everyone, I never posted in this boards because I'm a really lazy guy and my phone sucks, but Mankins departure has made me register.

I just want to say thanks and farewell to the MVP for the Giants of Superbowl 42 and 46, perennial playoff leader for teams like the Ravens and so on.

I do not even call Mankins by his name anymore with my friends; in our party he goes by the name of 'false start #70' or '15 yards unsportsmanlike conduct when your team has a decisive drive'.


I'm way more worried about the departure of Scarnechia than Mankins.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

PS, from the article...

It’s just another contract renegotiation that didn’t work. The same thing that happened with Randy Moss a few years ago, or last summer when they played hardball with Wes Welker. This time they were going after a pay cut for a player who played on a torn ACL in 2011, and already got “leveraged to a hilt” by New England in 2010.

Love the examples dude. I remember how Moss just lit up the league after his stay on the Patriots. And it might just be chance, but um, Welker? I'm hoping he's done now, not for our sake, but for his. The rest of the article/the Brier tweet, tells you about the cap room. We know there's been some decline, and you can only project more decline.

Like the man says, Belichick can get away with this sort of thing with less fan backlash than the average bear. In Bill we trust and all that -- so the Pats' front office have that advantage over other teams. Won't be any empty seats no matter what the move.

 

[VrabelJr]

Two things I dont agree with in the article.

The spare parts comment is silly. Spare parts? Sorry, every team has some sort of a spare part or JAG or what we might call an up and coming player at some position. A team with Brady, Vollmer, Mayo, Wilfork, Edelman, Gronk, Revis and Dmac is going to have to accept that some of the other positions are not going to have superstars. Its pick your poison.

The comment about losing when it counts is ridiculous. Injuries have played a huge role in the playoff record of this team. It is part of the game obviously but the context of the article just removes that from the equation and you cant.

I agree. The only season I felt that we made a mistake making one of these veteran trades was 2006 with Deion Branch. Other than that, we've been on the good end of it so far. That really crippled our offense. But you could also argue that maybe we don't go and get Welker and Moss in 2007 if we kept Branch in 2006.

I also think his comparison to the San Antonio Spurs is ridiculous. The NBA and NFL are so different in terms of salaries and roster management. It was pretty pathetic to see the author even go there.

 

[Sicilian]

Hi everyone, I never posted in this boards because I'm a really lazy guy and my phone sucks, but Mankins departure has made me register.

I just want to say thanks and farewell to the MVP for the Giants of Superbowl 42 and 46, perennial playoff leader forteams like Ravens and so on.

I did not even called Mankins anymore with my friends, in our party he goes by the name of false start #70 or 15 yards unsportmanlike conduct when your team has a decisive drive.


I'm way to more worried about Scarnechia departure than Mankins.

Uh, welcome to the board? I guess...?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I just don't think they are a better team this year. I understand the reason for the trade, just think that the Patriots would be better with Mankins. It is not like the Patriots are lacking receiving options.

I'd tweak that and say "don't think they are a better team without Mankins than with Mankins," because of the possible mis-read that you mean "don't think they are a better team than last year."

I don't think that's what you meant, but if it is, come on. The defensive upgrade alone seals it... unless you think the Mankins factor is enormous compared with how I see it.

I will say... lose the heart and soul of the line (Scar) then lose the on-field standout (Mankins) in one fell swoop, and it definitely makes you queasy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

PS, from the article...


Love the examples dude. I remember how Moss just lit up the league after his stay on the Patriots. And it might just be chance, but um, Welker? I'm hoping he's done now, not for our sake, but for his. The rest of the article/the Brier tweet, tells you about the cap room. We know there's been some decline, and you can only project more decline.

Like the man says, Belichick can get away with this sort of thing with less fan backlash than the average bear. In Bill we trust and all that -- so the Pats' front office have that advantage over other teams. Won't be any empty seats no matter what the move.

BB is not getting away with anything. The man wins, is always in a good cap situation and has the owner's trust that he will always make logical, pragmatic football decisions.

 

[Bruins29]

I just don't think they are a better team this year. I understand the reason for the trade, just think that the Patriots would be better with Mankins. It is not like the Patriots are lacking receiving options.

See, I dont get this. Last year this D was really great until all the injuries. Now you replace gimpy TAlib with Revis, Collin to starter, Jones looks like he made a jump, again, VW is back, Dennard is healthy, Butler looks like he could be a factor, so with health the team is better on D clearly.

On offense, 2nd year for the WRs, a healthy (we hope) DA and Gronk, JE is gonna be JE...Add Fells, and Wright, & Vollmer back.

So all of these great moves and players backed is trumped becuase of LM?? Seriously, the team is worse than last year because of LM??????

That is seriously shot sided biased thinking. You dont have to like the trade. But to continue to claim there is no replacement when their may be and that the team isn't better because of one player makes you sound insane.

 

[Ring 6]

I am saying that Mankins is heads and shoulder better than anybody else they would plug in at LG and that loss of talent will hurt the patriots.

As for Wright, do not count your chickens before they hatch.

Hard to have it both ways. You are counting the LG chickens before they hatch.

 

[Nunchucks]

See, I dont get this. Last year this D was really great until all the injuries. Now you replace gimpy TAlib with Revis, Collin to starter, Jones looks like he made a jump, again, VW is back, Dennard is healthy, Butler looks like he could be a factor, so with health the team is better on D clearly.

On offense, 2nd year for the WRs, a healthy (we hope) DA and Gronk, JE is gonna be JE...Add Fells, and Wright, & Vollmer back.

So all of these great moves and players backed is trumped becuase of LM?? Seriously, the team is worse than last year because of LM??????

That is seriously shot sided biased thinking. You dont have to like the trade. But to continue to claim there is no replacement when their may be and that the team isn't better because of one player makes you sound insane.

I meant this year...not comparing to last year.

 

[Rob0729]

I just don't think they are a better team this year. I understand the reason for the trade, just think that the Patriots would be better with Mankins. It is not like the Patriots are lacking receiving options.

Funny, up until the day of the trade, near universally the #1 or #2 concern about this team was the TE position. Now that the Pats actually added a TE who can actually catch the ball other than Gronk, the spin is Brady already has plenty of receiving options already?

I think this trade has the POTENTIAL to make the Pats' offense significantly better. Not turn it from an average offense to elite offense or anything like that, but adding a TE who can catch anywhere from 40-70 catches this year will only make it harder for teams to cover all the other weapons at Brady's disposal and make this offense more dynamic and not make the Pats not have a TE at all if Gronk goes down.