Logan Mankins Traded

[Urgent]

Summary in my mind a day and a half later:

PROS:
Patriots picked up a better complementary TE than DJ Williams, Steve Maneri, Asa Watson, Ben Hartsock, Justin Jones, etc.
Patriots shed $12mm in salary which can be applied to other players in 2015. (Mankins' ~$13mm less Wright's ~$1mm replacement, 2014-2015). They generally pay up to about $5-7mm of the cap, and roll all unused space forward.

CONS:
2014 offensive line is worse. Lost a solid starter, lost continuity. No clear replacement.
Lost important team leadership on a young team during coaching transition.
Tom Brady and other players are reportedly "pissed" and "disappointed."
No immediate use for the salary in 2014.
Clear message to veterans that the Patriots do not respect veteran contracts - see Mankins, Wilfork, Milloy, etc. Add in Kelly, Ocho Cinco, Lloyd, Warren, Seymour, Vrabel, Dillon, Bledsoe. Can't help attract future veterans. Note that several of those were team captains.

 

[Rob0729]

I feel the same way about this trade as I did about the Seymour trade, it does not help the Patriots win this year and I dislike it. I promise that sometime this season, we will see something happen on the field that would not have happened if Mankins was playing LG for the patriots. Whether it is a missed 4th and 1 pick up or a sack or something like that, it will happen and it will matter a lot.

How do we know this trade won't help the Pats this year? The Pats added a TE who had 54 catches, 571 yards, and 5 TDs in his first season in the NFL playing a new position with crap QBs throwing to him. What if Wright gets something like 70 catches for 770 yards and 8 TDs this season? Did the trade not help the Pats win this year? Hell, if Wright just duplicates his rookie year production, did the trade not help the Pats win this year after not having another receiver not named Gronk able to get more than one catch a game or so?

If Wright has a second year leap in production like most rookies do, Wright can potentially help the Pats win this year far more than Mankins ever could.

I don't get the argument that this trade doesn't help the Pats win this year. It may not if Wright is a flash in the pan. It may be a huge piece to make this offense elite this year. People act like Wright is just a throw away piece in this trade. Reports are Belichick loves this guy and will likely play a big role in the offense.

 

[Nunchucks]

Because Mankins never allowed a sack? If Brady does get sacked or we miss a 4th and 1, so what? It happened before when Mankins was here and it will happen now that he is gone.

Mankins is a better player than anybody else they will plug in at LG this year.

 

[Bruins29]

I feel the same way about this trade as I did about the Seymour trade, it does not help the Patriots win this year and I dislike it. I promise that sometime this season, we will see something happen on the field that would not have happened if Mankins was playing LG for the patriots. Whether it is a missed 4th and 1 pick up or a sack or something like that, it will happen and it will matter a lot.

I see so by that assumption any bad play that happens there automatically means it would not have happened if LM was there. Consequently any good play by his successor means nothing because LM would have made that play anyway.

hmmmmmmm I dont think it works that way. As mentioned 1000 times we added a good player borderline great in a position of great need. forget the pic and the extra funds (which by the way could be used to sign someone to improve this years team) we have added an appreciating asset and got rid of a depreciating one.

Lets see how it plays out before making definitive decisions on the potential of the team this year.

 

[Nunchucks]

How do we know this trade won't help the Pats this year? The Pats added a TE who had 54 catches, 571 yards, and 5 TDs in his first season in the NFL playing a new position with crap QBs throwing to him. What if Wright gets something like 70 catches for 770 yards and 8 TDs this season? Did the trade not help the Pats win this year? Hell, if Wright just duplicates his rookie year production, did the trade not help the Pats win this year after not having another receiver not named Gronk able to get more than one catch a game or so.

If Wright has a second year leap in production like most rookies do, Wright can potentially help the Pats win this year far more than Mankins ever could.

I don't get the argument that this trade doesn't help the Pats win this year. It may not if Wright is a flash in the pan. It may be a huge piece to make this offense elite this year.

I am very skeptical that a 2nd year player learning the TE position, acquired right before the start of the season will have near as much impact on the team as Mankins.

I hope he does, but I am very skeptical.

 

[BelichickFan]

FWIW, Rich Hill from Pats Pulpit said that Wright added 15 pounds over the offseason :

Rich Hill ‏@PP_Rich_Hill6 mins
Can we all start agreeing that Tim Wright is 235 pounds? Weighed 220 at the combine, but put on 15 over the summer. Still adjusting to it.

 

[mayoclinic]

"Tim Wright, unless he's beefed up considerably from his College 6030/219, is a Split End."

I'm personally agnostic as to whether Wright ends up as a Flex End or a Split End. I think either would be a tremendous benefit to the Pats' offense. I'd be just as content with him ending up as a "poor man's Marques Colston" as a "poor man's Aaron Hernandez" - either one would add another dimension to the Pats' offense, complement Gronk, provide more ability to move the chains, and improve red zone efficiency. I'll be eager to see how Wright ends up being used, but I'm not too concerned with how he is labelled.

 

[Nunchucks]

I see so by that assumption any bad play that happens there automatically means it would not have happened if LM was there. Consequently any good play by his successor means nothing because LM would have made that play anyway.

hmmmmmmm I dont think it works that way. As mentioned 1000 times we added a good player borderline great in a position of great need. forget the pic and the extra funds (which by the way could be used to sign someone to improve this years team) we have added an appreciating asset and got rid of a depreciating one.

Lets see how it plays out before making definitive decisions on the potential of the team this year.

I am saying that Mankins is heads and shoulder better than anybody else they would plug in at LG and that loss of talent will hurt the patriots.

As for Wright, do not count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[BelichickFan]

I am very skeptical that a 2nd year player learning the TE position, acquired right before the start of the season will have near as much impact on the team as Mankins.

I hope he does, but I am very skeptical.

By definition this should make the team a litle worse. We got younger, we got a draft pick next year, we got cap relief - for all that future stuff we have to be at least a little worse immediately.

 

[Nunchucks]

FWIW, Rich Hill from Pats Pulpit said that Wright added 15 pounds over the offseason :

Rich Hill ‏@PP_Rich_Hill6 mins
Can we all start agreeing that Tim Wright is 235 pounds? Weighed 220 at the combine, but put on 15 over the summer. Still adjusting to it.

Great, 235 lbs means he won't get tossed around like a rag doll quite as much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

By definition this should make the team a litle worse. We got younger, we got a draft pick next year, we got cap relief - for all that future stuff we have to be at least a little worse immediately.

If Wright catches 40 balls w/ 5 TDs and TB is sacked less by rushers challenging the LG then they team just got better.

 

[Rob0729]

I am very skeptical that a 2nd year player learning the TE position, acquired right before the start of the season will have near as much impact on the team as Mankins.

I hope he does, but I am very skeptical.

The Bucs ran a similar system as the Pats. He has to learn the terminology, but the system is very similar. He will probably have some growing pains early, but he could be a stud by October or November.

 

[Bruins29]

Mankins is a better player than anybody else they will plug in at LG this year.

You dont absolutely know that. Which is why its comical that people are claiming there is no clear placement for LM. How do we know this? Were you at training camp talking to BB about it. Seriously you would think if they diddnt have a contingent plan they wouldnt have made the trade.

The other side of this is that you could also make the claim that Wright "could" be the best TE we have this year? Would someone like to argue that with me?

 

[condon84]

There is no way we are a better team this year losing an All-Pro guard even if his skills may be somewhat declining. He was still very good and our best OL. The team may be better off in a few years when Mankins really declines and Wright/Draft pick/Cap space can be fully utilize but for this year, we are worse off as a team.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I feel the same way about this trade as I did about the Seymour trade, it does not help the Patriots win this year and I dislike it. I promise that sometime this season, we will see something happen on the field that would not have happened if Mankins was playing LG for the patriots. Whether it is a missed 4th and 1 pick up or a sack or something like that, it will happen and it will matter a lot.

I moved down to Virginia 45+ years ago, just after forming my unshakeable Boston sports allegiances.

A few years later, George Allen of the Redskins brought the phrase "The Future is Now" to the NFL. The Redskins parlayed said phrase into a Super Bowl loss to the Dolphins after the '72 season. Sometime in the 80s they (the franchise - the players were long gone) got a ring or two. Most of the time? Meh.

We spend (and have already spent) a fair amount of time on here talking about the "Brady window." It is never the case that future continuity is so secondary that the Pats should "Go for broke this year." It's just not. Even in Brady's last year -- and one year it will be Brady's last year -- it won't be the case.

PS, in your construction above, where you say whether it's a sack allowed or a 4th & 1 we don't pick up, I think it's the run game where he's irreplaceable. We'll lose something there and we'd be delusional not to recognize it. But as Pats fans we know that the Pats are always rebuilding. That's what keeps us from having a 4-12 "rebuilding year."

Downside: as someone else here said, sometimes we're a year or two early rather than a year late... and that helps a team to know that it's okay to "sell high," although if "high" gets you a 4th round pick... well, I dunno how "high" that deal actually was.

Essentially Mankins was judged not good enough for the monetary drag on the team going forward. So the "five kinds of protection" from the old credit card commercial continue to turn over... Much to TFB's chagrin, if we're to believe what we read in the press (big "if," though I am sure TFB did have a "bummer" moment or two).

Just drinking my morning koolaid

 

[BelichickFan]

If Wright catches 40 balls w/ 5 TDs and TB is sacked less by rushers challenging the LG then they team just got better.

I think it's possible we will be, there's no way to know until we see what Wright does/doesn't do and how the LG plays. I just meant we should be at least a little worse this year because what we got was for the future. If we helped our future and had no, or a positive, impact on the present then . . .

 

[Bruins29]

I am saying that Mankins is heads and shoulder better than anybody else they would plug in at LG and that loss of talent will hurt the patriots.

As for Wright, do not count your chickens before they hatch.

As for Mankins lets not forget what his pass blocking skills were and how much money he was making and that you have no idea if LM is head and shoulders better than his replacement.

Everyone said this about Light and Soldier. We have seen and heard and seen this movie before. I would think one of the greatest minds in football knowing he has the GOAT QB would be more in tune with the needs of the team then some guy on a keyboard at home.

Also, I am not here playing the "Wrights gonna make 50 catches and score 6 TDs game" Why? Because with Gronk, DA, JE, AD, KT, SV, etc he may not see a lot of targets.

Let it go already. Mankins was not as great as he used to be, overpaid, not a team player in the mold of TB, and not a great pass blocker.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I didn't see this Grantland article posted; it's a pretty interesting take:

The Genius and Stupidity of Bill Belichick

 

[Rob0729]

There is no way we are a better team this year losing an All-Pro guard even if his skills may be somewhat declining. He was still very good and our best OL. The team may be better off in a few years when Mankins really declines and Wright/Draft pick/Cap space can be fully utilize but for this year, we are worse off as a team.

Is Mankins really the Pats' best o-lineman or does he have the reputation as the best o-lineman? He didn't have a good year last year. Was it a fluke or signs of him in rapid decline. And again he is A GUARD. Guards unless they are elite are almost interchangeable unless they really suck.

And how can anyone declare that there is no way this team is better before we see Wright play? What if Wright (who had better numbers than Hernandez had his rookie season) has a similar jump as Hernandez had in his second year? This time next year, we could all be joking that Wright for Mankins straight up was an absolute steal for the Pats and they got a fourth rounder to boot.

 

[patchick]

If Wright catches 40 balls w/ 5 TDs and TB is sacked less by rushers challenging the LG then they team just got better.

Given that the Pats' choice of Kline/Devey/Cannon/Fleming and Hilapio is replacing Mankins while Wright is replacing literally nobody at h-back, a net improvement in the team is certainly possible -- even if Mankins remains a much better player than Wright.