Logan Mankins Traded

[Nunchucks]

And again, where are you getting this? I haven't read anything of the sort, but people keep spouting it as if they've broken down the film and it's an irrefutable fact. If he actually has a "long way to go" to reach Jimmy freakin' Graham, then he should probably be a kicker.

I listen to NFL network a lot and they talked a lot about his blocking and cited many specific instances where he was rag-dolled.

 

[Bruins29]

lol, I don't hate the trade, I dislike it, very different. Wright is not going to be asked to block very much....it comes down to would you rather have Amendola/Thompkins/Dobson/LaFell on the field or Wright.

Strawman. You dont have to like it. But consequently you dont have to create fallacy to discredit it.

 

[Rob0729]

He will be blocking LBs mostly if he is in a Hernandez like position.

He will see a lot of slot CBs, but he will see more LBs. But depending on the team the Pats face, many of those LBs will be the same weight as he is.

 

[Bruins29]

I listen to NFL network a lot and they talked a lot about his blocking and cited many specific instances where he was rag-dolled.

As pointed out. If this is your argument, you dont have one.

NFL Network LOL. Are we changing the discussion? Sounds like you want to.

 

[Rob0729]

I listen to NFL network a lot and they talked a lot about his blocking and cited many specific instances where he was rag-dolled.

But without knowing who you are listening to specifically, are you sure they are speaking from actually scouting him or just a general perception.

 

[Ring 6]

He will see a lot of slot CBs, but he will see more LBs. But depending on the team the Pats face, many of those LBs will be the same weight as he is.

You are arguing that size isn't a problem with blocking for the guy who is probably the smallest TE in the NFL?

 

[Nunchucks]

But your reasons for disliking it or at least what you are telling us arent logical and are one sided.

It comes across as LM was an irreplaceable All-pro - which he isnt and Wright cant block and isnt an asset at a great position of need.

Perhaps if you were more objective less people in this thread would be jumping on you.

First, my argument is that the OL is worse without Mankins.

Second, I do not see move TE as a position of great need in an offense that is featuring 3 WR sets.

Third, we know that teams will not respect the running game with the 2nd TE on the field if it is Wright because he is not that much of a threat in the running game.

Teams will just play nickel with Wright in the game....the advantage of the 2 TE set with Hernandez is that the Patriots could still run the ball because Hernandez was a passable blocker.

If teams are going to play nickel, just put one of the guys that is on the same page with Brady on the field...

 

[Rob0729]

You are arguing that size isn't a problem with blocking for the guy who is probably the smallest TE in the NFL?

I am actually arguing it isn't as big of a concern as nunchucks is making it out to be. It is a concern, but for a flex TE it isn't a huge concern. If he was trying to be an inline TE, it would be a huge issue.

 

[Nunchucks]

But without knowing who you are listening to specifically, are you sure they are speaking from actually scouting him or just a general perception.

Also hearing a lot from guys covering the Bucs

 

[Ring 6]

I am actually arguing it isn't as big of a concern as nunchucks is making it out to be. It is a concern, but for a flex TE it isn't a huge concern. If he was trying to be an inline TE, it would be a huge issue.

Depends on how he is used. In a scenario where he is playing almost full time and run blocking on 40-45% of his snaps, it is a HUGE issue. Putting him on the field attracts a larger defensive package.
If he is going to be out there 15-20 snaps a game and most of those are passes, then his blocking deficiencies are less of a concern.
The point is that trying to downplay him being undersized by saying he will block little guys is silly.

 

[condon84]

Is Mankins really the Pats' best o-lineman or does he have the reputation as the best o-lineman? He didn't have a good year last year. Was it a fluke or signs of him in rapid decline. And again he is A GUARD. Guards unless they are elite are almost interchangeable unless they really suck.

And how can anyone declare that there is no way this team is better before we see Wright play? What if Wright (who had better numbers than Hernandez had his rookie season) has a similar jump as Hernandez had in his second year? This time next year, we could all be joking that Wright for Mankins straight up was an absolute steal for the Pats and they got a fourth rounder to boot.

Do you really think Wright's contributions this year as a TE is going to be more significant than what Mankins would have done for our OL?

 

[Bruins29]

First, my argument is that the OL is worse without Mankins.

Second, I do not see move TE as a position of great need in an offense that is featuring 3 WR sets.

Third, we know that teams will not respect the running game with the 2nd TE on the field if it is Wright because he is not that much of a threat in the running game.

Teams will just play nickel with Wright in the game....the advantage of the 2 TE set with Hernandez is that the Patriots could still run the ball because Hernandez was a passable blocker.

If teams are going to play nickel, just put one of the guys that is on the same page with Brady on the field...

You said the TEAM was worse...this year. TEAM

Second, Move TE was a huge need. You claiming it wasnt shows you dont understand the game. A 3WR set is out of necessity. With Gronk as your only really great TE, they needed help! Stop avoiding that fact.

You are taking this fallacy about the blocking and creating a whole argument around it and it becoming comical.

 

[Bruins29]

Also hearing a lot from guys covering the Bucs

Does he play for their team anymore? Doubtful they were going to gush about him

 

[Ring 6]

First, my argument is that the OL is worse without Mankins.

Second, I do not see move TE as a position of great need in an offense that is featuring 3 WR sets.

Third, we know that teams will not respect the running game with the 2nd TE on the field if it is Wright because he is not that much of a threat in the running game.

Teams will just play nickel with Wright in the game....the advantage of the 2 TE set with Hernandez is that the Patriots could still run the ball because Hernandez was a passable blocker.

If teams are going to play nickel, just put one of the guys that is on the same page with Brady on the field...

Agree with most. We are worse at LG, how much is debatable.
What we got with Wright was not an improved offense, but more versatility and a guy who could contribute something from the position if Gronk went down. It is an added piece, not a key component, IMO.
What we gained was a bunch of valuable cap space.
In the end, it is difficult to say whether the drop off at LG will be overcome by the added piece, but in the long run, the Patriots are better off due to this trade.

Oh by the way, lets not pretend Hernandez was anything but a horrendous blocker himself.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you really think Wright's contributions this year would have been better to what Mankins would have done for us?

Very possibly. How do we know at this? If they both produce this year as exactly they did last year, the Pats stole Wright with a 4th round pick. If last year was an aberration for one or both players, then I might re-adjust my thinking.

People forget that a lot of people were blasting Mankins last year. I can't remember if you were one of them, but many people were calling for him to be cut. Now that he is gone, many of them (again not throwing you in this category) are killing the Pats because it was crazy to let him go.

 

[Nunchucks]

You said the TEAM was worse...this year. TEAM

Second, Move TE was a huge need. You claiming it wasnt shows you dont understand the game. A 3WR set is out of necessity. With Gronk as your only really great TE, they needed help! Stop avoiding that fact.

You are taking this fallacy about the blocking and creating a whole argument around it and it becoming comical.

The only thing comical is your obvious homerism and inability to understand that you can only put 11 players on the field.

Wright will be a redzone target and maybe a decent one, but a 235 lbs TE who has played the position for 1 year, I am not holding my breath hoping he makes an impact this season.

Apparently he is the best receiving TE since D.J. Williams.

 

[Bruins29]

If they both produce this year as exactly they did last year, the Pats stole Wright with a 4th round pick. .

Judging by the way people swoon over stats on this board you would think people would be thrilled with Wrights acquisition. Now all of a sudden stats are out the window and its sentimental time.

F LM. He held out, was not elite anymore, and was overpaid and did not perform that well in the SB.

 

[condon84]

Very possibly. How do we know at this? If they both produce this year as exactly they did last year, the Pats stole Wright with a 4th round pick. If last year was an aberration for one or both players, then I might re-adjust my thinking.

People forget that a lot of people were blasting Mankins last year. I can't remember if you were one of them, but many people were calling for him to be cut. Now that he is gone, many of them (again not throwing you in this category) are killing the Pats because it was crazy to let him go.

You are clearly not assessing this objectively. You must know that Brady is all about trusting his receivers. There is no way Wright this year with no training camp will vault past Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, and even Thomkins and Dobson, on who Brady will look to on passing downs. Meanwhile, Mankins would have been our starting LG, and quite possibly be our best OL and from the sounds of his ex teammates, one of the better leaders of the team.

 

[Rob0729]

Depends on how he is used. In a scenario where he is playing almost full time and run blocking on 40-45% of his snaps, it is a HUGE issue. Putting him on the field attracts a larger defensive package.
If he is going to be out there 15-20 snaps a game and most of those are passes, then his blocking deficiencies are less of a concern.
The point is that trying to downplay him being undersized by saying he will block little guys is silly.

I doubt he will play almost full time. I think the biggest advantage of this offense right now is all the different formations they can run. Two TE sets. Two RB sets. Four or five WR sets. I expect the Pats to have one of the most dynamic offenses they have ever had by what they are going to throw at people.

I am not down playing him being undersized by blocking little guys, I am pointing out he will not be facing many 300 Lb linemen if at all and he won't be only facing 270 lb LBers either. He will see slot CBs a lot when he is lining up in the slot.

But why not say the same thing to the people who say he is a horrible pick just because he is undersized.

 

[Bruins29]

The only thing comical is your obvious homerism and inability to understand that you can only put 11 players on the field.

Wright will be a redzone target and maybe a decent one, but a 235 lbs TE who has played the position for 1 year, I am not holding my breath hoping he makes an impact this season.

Apparently he is the best receiving TE since D.J. Williams.

So I guess everyone else is a homer too because they are telling you the same thing. You hate the trade but cant remotely put a cognitive argument together as to why the team is absolutely worse. So when everyone tells you that you are not looking at this correctly, you go into stawman mode.

Yeah, I see, we are all homers. LOL