Lito Shephard on the block...would fill a big hole...

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lito Shephard on the block.......would fill a big hole...

Why so much love for Gay? He was clearly targeted by almost every offense down the stretch. Did he make a single play last year?

Also whoever put Richardson and Ty Law above Ellis Hobbs, two words, lay off the LDS. Is this the same Richardson who has never played an NFL game? and had a pedestrian college career on one of the worst pass defenses in the NCAA? I most not have been watching when he 'almost' made plays against other teams scrubs.

I would take Shephard in a second for our #2 pick and would even consider trade for our #7 for the Eagles #19. I don't know if he is a probowl player but he is an adequate or above average starter.

If our 2008 Secondary looks like this it will be a lot better than I thought it would be. There is still a chance that a bum veteran or rookie ends up as a starter.
Hobbs
Sheppard
2nd round draft pick
Richardson\Spann\Williams
Harrison
Sanders
Merriweather
Willie 'I needs my pot' Andrews

I really didn't give Gay any love. I said that he didn't get enough of a chance as a starter to make a fair comparison.

But there is no way you move that #7 pick in any way just to get Lito Sheppard.

 

[LloydBraun]

Sheppard's injury history is a concern. He annually misses a handful of games.

 

[sebman2112]

Re: Lito Shephard on the block.......would fill a big hole...

How good is Hobbs vs. Sheppard? There's your break-even point, if he is in fact available at marked-down, not-so-young-anymore rates. (And could the iggles ask for some coin to apply against that dead money Lito costs as part of the deal?)

By reputation at least, Sheppard seems like he'd be an upgrade over Hobbs (as might Gay.) And of course we have to replace Asante, if all our assumptions hold. We might end up with a downgrade in the secondary, but a downgrade to Sheppard/Gay or Sheppard/Hobbs might be preferable to a downgrade to Gay/Hobbs (just for example.)

I have to say, I had the impression that Sheppard is a pretty serviceable D-back.

PFnV

I can't see how anyone would still believe Randall Gay is better than Hobbs. Especially since he actually looked worse with more playing time. If anything all those injuries helped build his status among some fans (sounds strange), because we didn't get to see his weaknesses exposed on a weekly basis. During the 2007 season I noticed him give up a number of receptions and TD's he absolutely shouldn't have. If anyone wants to talk about a NE CB who got burned in 2007 it was Randall Gay, not Hobbs. Don't get me wrong, I still like the guy, and hope he's a member of the 2008 NE Patriots. But, with his 2007 performance and injury history I wouldn't at all want to count on him as a full time starter.

 

[Joker]

yeah, Seb...I agree...I thought he played soft and was out of position a lot of the time and seemed to get worse with more playing time

 

[sebman2112]

I would love to have Lito Sheppard over Samuel. He is more physical and a little bit bigger. At first I didn't think much of Ty Law coming back, but if it's the difference between him starting or Ellis Hobbs, I'll take Law. Whether or not Samuel stays, the Pats need DB's.

Sorry, Ellis Hobbs is a good second CB. Also, if (we don't know) NE's going to bring in CB's who are more physical in coverage and switch over to a more physical brand of coverage, then I'd actually like Hobbs even more. See, NE's soft zone coverage suited Asante Samuel, not Hobbs. Asante doesn't like to jam at the line, and he's more of a finesse coverage man. Yes, Asante can put some decent hits on people, but I'm talking about his coverage ability/style, not his hitting/tackling. Ellis might be short but he's got a lot of fire, attitude, actually likes being physical, and playing at the LOS. He also sports a 42 in vert which makes up for the lack of height.

If NE had Lito, Hobbs, and Law at CB with Meriweather, Harrison, and Sanders as their Safety rotation it would be a very good secondary, and an upgrade over their main group in 2007, especially if a first day draft pick is added. I also think Richardson could develop into a decent slot CB, and Randall Gay could return.

 

[sebman2112]

I'm assuming we get the 2 by trading down from rd. 1 #7, right? Our 2 is gone.

Since when? I'm pretty sure NE still has their own second round pick.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Getting Lito AND Law might be asking a little too much

 

[chrisfx811]

Hobbs may have a good vertical, but being undersized often times doesn't allow for him to utilize that much. If he's in tight he's not going to get up much, like on the Plaxico reception in week 17.

 

[patsfan-1982]

lito shephard is not as good as samuel he is not even as good as hobbs rember hobbs coverd the outher teams best WR most of the time not samuel that being said i think hobbs did pretty good the only reason shephard is that good is the eageles blitz about 90% of the time so the QB dose not have time to throw ill take ty law over him

 

[BPF]

Would be a great move to pick up this young vet and from a monetary standpoint a lot less expensive then keeping Asante. If we can get away with only giving up a 2nd or 3rd it would be a tremendous move and allow us to be more physical in coverage, which was a prob this past year.

Sheppard is only 26 yrs old. He has ok size but plays a lot more physical than 5-10 and 194. He has very quick feet and is also tough on run support. He is not that solid in zone D and he doesn't jump routes that well, especially not as well as Asante. He makes up for that with solid route recognition and with his #1 strength, press coverage. He competes for the ball and does that well against tall WRs as well (nice job on Moss this year as we all know). He has had some injury issues in the past but he reminds me a lot of Otis Smith, one of my personal favorite all-time Patriots, in how he baits QBs into bad ints (see 100 yd pick six vs Beldoes/Dallas a few yrs ago). He obviously is a lot more talented than O T I S was.

 

[cstjohn17]

Also, if (we don't know) NE's going to bring in CB's who are more physical in coverage and switched over to a more physical brand of coverage, then I'd actually like Hobbs even more.

I don't think we know that they will switch to a more physical style of coverage, we really don't know anything about what they will do. The defense was pretty consistent all year, allowing about 17 PPG through the regular season and the playoffs. 17 PPG should win most games.

Hopefully they have some corners who can actually catch the ball.

 

[sebman2112]

Hobbs may have a good vertical, but being undersized often times doesn't allow for him to utilize that much. If he's in tight he's not going to get up much, like on the Plaxico reception in week 17.

Plaxico is an extreme. Most of the "big" WR's in the NFL aren't much bigger than 6'2", while Plaxico is 6'5" and 232lbs. And, that long pass in week 17 isn't really a good example of what Ellis can do in the air. Plaxico got position in front of Hobbs because Eli under threw the pass, so Hobbs had to try and jump over/come in from behind Plaxico's 6'5" frame to get a shot at knocking the ball down. He actually did make a swipe at the ball and and got his hand on it, but Plaxico was able to hang onto the ball with one hand.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Flipping first rounders with Philly and grabbing Sheppard would be amazing. #7s make too much anyways.

 

[sebman2112]

I don't think we know that they will switch to a more physical style of coverage, we really don't know anything about what they will do. The defense was pretty consistent all year, allowing about 17 PPG through the regular season and the playoffs. 17 PPG should win most games.

Hopefully they have some corners who can actually catch the ball.

I said "we don't know" in that very quote. I also said "IF" NE brings in more physical CB's, and I think Hobbs could be more effective if they were to switch to a more physical brand of coverage. I wasn't making any assumptions, just giving my opinion on what I'd think of their defense if they were to make those moves.

 

[sebman2112]

Flipping first rounders with Philly and grabbing Sheppard would be amazing. #7s make too much anyways.

I wouldn't do that. I'd try and find a trading partner in the first, and pick up another second rounder. NE could pick up a very good CB with a mid-second rounder by the way.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I wouldn't do that. I'd try and find a trading partner in the first, and pick up another second rounder. NE could pick up a very good CB with a mid-second rounder by the way.

So you're essentially saying that you'd rather have a 2nd round pick than Lito Sheppard? I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one- Sheppard is a proven #1 all-pro CB, relatively low-cost, and can handle all of the big receivers that Hobbs can't (I think even BB would be willing to switch sides of the field rather than force Hobbs to match up on guys like Plaxico, when the physical discrepency is this major. The reason why he didn't do it before is probably because Asante wasn't that tall either).

 

[sebman2112]

So you're essentially saying that you'd rather have a 2nd round pick than Lito Sheppard? I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one- Sheppard is a proven #1 all-pro CB, relatively low-cost, and can handle all of the big receivers that Hobbs can't (I think even BB would be willing to switch sides of the field rather than force Hobbs to match up on guys like Plaxico, when the physical discrepency is this major. The reason why he didn't do it before is probably because Asante wasn't that tall either).

No, I'm saying that I'd rather trade down in the first, and pick up an additional second rounder. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't want him on the Patriots, just that I don't like that particular trade (giving them 7th overall for their pick and Lito). I think the value given up by NE would be greater in that trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No, I'm saying that I'd rather trade down in the first, and pick up an additional second rounder. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't want him on the Patriots, just that I don't like that particular trade (giving them 7th overall for their pick and Lito).

I said that I would prefer to trade down in the first and grab Lito Sheppard in the process.

You're saying you'd rather trade down in the first and grab a second in the process.

Therefore, you are saying that, assuming that the first rounder is traded down to a roughly equal place, you'd take the second rounder over Lito, since everything else in the equation is equal. Especially since the only way that you can trade down and end up with a significantly better first rounder if it's in the 10-15 range. Even then, I'd rather have #19 and Sheppard than the #10 and an additional second rounder (especially since a #10 pick still makes a lot of money)

 

[cstjohn17]

I said "we don't know" in that very quote. I also said "IF" NE brings in more physical CB's, and I think Hobbs could be more effective if they were to switch to a more physical brand of coverage. I wasn't making any assumptions, just giving my opinion on what I'd think of their defense if they were to make those moves.

Ok, my bad, I will read and then post for now on. Instead of the other way around.

 

[BradyToMoss]

No, I'm saying that I'd rather trade down in the first, and pick up an additional second rounder. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't want him on the Patriots, just that I don't like that particular trade (giving them 7th overall for their pick and Lito). I think the value given up by NE would be greater in that trade.

I have to disagree with with you sebman on this one. Think about this deal? We could drop Lito on one corner and use that #19 on a guy like Cason or DR-Cromartie and we're all set for the next 5 years on the islands and we can move Hobbs to nickel after DRC gets his feet wet. I'll make this deal in a minute.