Let's Spend Some Time Looking At OL Money and Future

[Marinlik]

Not according to OverTheCap:
http://overthecap.com/player/marcus-cannon/1228/

The way the deal appears to be structured, I'm guessing that Cannon is not on the Pats in 2016.

Well that's just because OverTheCap doesn't show stuff like that. But you have to add the signing bonus hit in 2014 to the 2015 cap hit because of missed cap roll over. So his cap hit in 2015 is $3.7M

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

^^^^
He will be a patriot if he starts many games this year as OT or RG .
His cap in 2016 is prohibitive.
BTW: Miguel has the exacly same numbers.
http://patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

 

[mgteich]

^^^^
He will be a patriot if he starts many games this year as OT or RG .
His cap in 2016 is prohibitive.
BTW: Miguel has the exacly same numbers.
http://patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

I don't understand. You think paying Cannon $4.5M for 2015 is cost prohibitive, but paying him $3.5M for 2016 is prohibitive. I'm ignoring the playing time bonuses of $250K a year.

In this long, long, long time of free agency, we might all choose to understand the cap and new money better. The cap with regard to an individual player is all but irrelevant. Which year compensation hits the cap is about cap arithmetic which the team plays with as they need to.

Cannon is a very good example, which is why I have brought his contract up more than once. Cannon was playing his last year for us in 2014. Late in the year, along with three others, Cannon signed an extension.
IMHO, it was interesting (but not relevant to Cannon's signing or staying) to understand how the money would hit the cap. The team decided that some of the "new money" would hit the 2014 cap, some would hit the 2015 cap, and some would hit the 2016 cap if he stayed through 2016.

Cannon was guaranteed $3.2M in the form of a bonus paid in three parts in 2014 and 2015. He also has a 2015 salary of $1.2M. Cannon will be guaranteed $4.4M when he plays Game One. He will also have earned a weight bonus and a bonus for being active for Game 1.

Is the $4.4M prohibitive? IMHO, this amount is not more or less prohibitive because part of the bonus was paid in 2014, at the end of the season. That decision affected the spreading of the new money costs, not how well Cannon is being paid.

 

[eom]

I'm a little surprised cannon even signed this deal --- couldn't he have gotten a starting job somewhere in fa?

if they offer him less I don't think there's any incentive for him to sign it, and what if solder were to hold out for an extension going into week 1?

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Like all other decisions, the o-line decisions will have heavy influences from dollars spent at other positions. Solder and Wilfork are the two players with the largest savings attached to their release, but only up til the end of the month. With that said, the Pats will probably have to have other decisions finalized before March 1st to give us more clarity on Solder's, and Connollys future with the team.

Money can be saved, and cut out from other positions, but the Cannon signing gave the team a certain level of buffer if it feels cutting Solder is their best option for savings. Not saying that is what will happen, but Solder is one of the big pieces of our off-season, even with his contract for the year in place.

 

[eom]

really -- cut solder?

dude........

 

[mgteich]

I'm a little surprised cannon even signed this deal --- couldn't he have gotten a starting job somewhere in fa?

if they offer him less I don't think there's any incentive for him to sign it, and what if solder were to hold out for an extension going into week 1?

You think that our backup RT would have gotten another team to pay him MORE than$4.5M for his 2015 services and more than $8M for two years?

 

[eom]

I honestly have no idea --- is he better than michael oher?
this is what oher signed for a year ago, and he just got cut

Michael Oher signed a 4 year / $20,000,000 contract with the Tennessee Titans, including a $4,000,000 signing bonus, $9,350,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $5,000,000.

 

[mgteich]

really -- cut solder?

dude........

If the team cannot sign a long-term deal with Solder, their choice are to have him as a $7.45M rent-a-player for a year or to move on. I agree that the team would be likely to pay Solder and move on in 2016. Yes. Plan B would be for Vollmer to LT in 2016 and Cannon the starting RT, with new tackles needed at both positions in 2017.

FIRST THINGS FIRST
The team signed an expensive two-year insurance policy in Cannon. Now, we need to see if Solder is signed to a long-term deal before March 10th or whether he is on a on-year deal for $7.45M.

 

[BradyManny]

The total compensation possible by Cannon under the contract extension was $9M. So, folks have called this a 2/$9M contract. I will presume that Cannon does NOT earn the playing time bonuses, but is active for every game (which he would be barring injury)

Which do you NOT agree with?

BONUS paid before the end of the 2015 season $3.200M
2015 base paid before the end of the 2015 season 1.200M
Weight bonus paid before the end of the 2015 season .100M
Bonus for being on the active roster .250M
Total earned by Feb 28, 2016 $4.750M
not earned .250M

Right but the hit for next season is only 2.6+ which is relevant when discussing the future of the OL.

But I agree with your overall point that the Cannon extension remains a bit of a head scratcher given his play did not seem very good this season at any position. Then again, Wendell struggled in 2013 and rebounded at guard this year. I'm sure the team has a better sense of what to expect from Cannon if he were to get extended PT.

 

[farn]

I was surprised by Cannon's deal as well. But the importance of competent OTs can't be underscored. I think it is prudent - if the Patriots believe in Cannon as a long-term injury insurance - that they retain him. Most teams are paying a lot more for their LT than NE does and that might allow them to "splurge" a bit on Cannon.

 

[mgteich]

Right but the hit for next season is only 2.6+ which is relevant when discussing the future of the OL.

But I agree with your overall point that the Cannon extension remains a bit of a head scratcher given his play did not seem very good this season at any position. Then again, Wendell struggled in 2013 and rebounded at guard this year. I'm sure the team has a better sense of what to expect from Cannon if he were to get extended PT.

Cannon's cap hit for 2016 is $4,816,668. The new money for 2016 is $3,750,000. The team will decide in the next offseason whether Cannon is worth $3.75M. They have already decided to pay him $4.75M this year.

2016
Base $3.400M
Roster Bonus $0.250M
Weight Bonus $0.100M
-----------
total $3.750M

play time bonus $0.250M (not likely to be earned)

 

[mgteich]

I was surprised by Cannon's deal as well. But the importance of competent OTs can't be underscored. I think it is prudent - if the Patriots believe in Cannon as a long-term injury insurance - that they retain him. Most teams are paying a lot more for their LT than NE does and that might allow them to "splurge" a bit on Cannon.

I would have been more comfortable with a four year deal. A 2-year deal isn't "long-term" injury insurance to me. It is what it is, a 2-year policy with Vollmer signed through 2016, the same as Cannon.

 

[Marinlik]

Right but the hit for next season is only 2.6+ which is relevant when discussing the future of the OL.

But I agree with your overall point that the Cannon extension remains a bit of a head scratcher given his play did not seem very good this season at any position. Then again, Wendell struggled in 2013 and rebounded at guard this year. I'm sure the team has a better sense of what to expect from Cannon if he were to get extended PT.

His hit is actually $3.7M in 2015 because of the signing bonus of being spread out on 2014/15/16 and the signing bonus in 2014 negating the same amount of cap carry over that we would otherwise have.

 

[captain stone]

I'm a little surprised cannon even signed this deal --- couldn't he have gotten a starting job somewhere in fa?

Not with a team that has realistic playoff aspirations.

 

[captain stone]

I honestly have no idea --- is he better than michael oher?
this is what oher signed for a year ago, and he just got cut

Michael Oher signed a 4 year / $20,000,000 contract with the Tennessee Titans, including a $4,000,000 signing bonus, $9,350,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $5,000,000.

That's just an example of why the Tittyans stink.

 

[BradyManny]

His hit is actually $3.7M in 2015 because of the signing bonus of being spread out on 2014/15/16 and the signing bonus in 2014 negating the same amount of cap carry over that we would otherwise have.

Good point, thanks for the heads up.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I feel that Cannon is overpaid right now. But maybe BB sees him as a starter somewhere on the OL.
Vollmer is solid when healthy but how many years does he have left in him?
Solder needs to be extended and also lower his cap hit.
Stork is the future at center, that looks pretty clear to me.
We need to upgrade at guard, Bennett was getting to Brady almost at will in the first half.

I don't see us needing to spend a lot. You can get good interior OL in the middle 3rd-5th rounds. Stork was a 4th rounder and arguably our best interior OL this year.