Let's Say We Added Carter and Barron

[supafly]

Free agent Andre Carter still “limping heavily” after quadriceps tear | ProFootballTalk

Not good news for those like myself, who were assuming that he'd be here. Of course part of that assumption was that we'd keep one of Carter/Anderson, and that may be a very stupid reason to assume his return. I just didn't see the loss of both 10+ sack totals in the same year, but it may be more of a possibility than initially thought.

I'm not sure about the usual rehab time for something like a quad tear/surgery, so I don't know if this is unusual or not.

 

[supafly]

I hate to even bring it up again (seems like every year at some point someone does), but why no interest in Matt Roth?

I would assume that Belichick just does not like him enough, or that he just doesn't see enough value compared to Roth's asking price--otherwise they'd at least take a look at him.

He just seems to be the kind of guy that would do well here.

 

[Marqui]

The Patriots have no interest in Roth probably for the same reason no other team does, he's not that good.

 

[Deus Irae]

Good point on Eric Moore, I'll give ya that, strange how he never made it. I think Moore did enough as a rookie despite limited sample size, we'll see. I don't see Allen as any type of a lock though.

I gave Allen the nod because I remembered his deal as being above the veteran minimum, and because I think his play last year was better than the current alternatives. If my recall about his deal is wrong, I could certainly understand someone thinking CB4 is open as well.

 

[ATippett56]

I hate to even bring it up again (seems like every year at some point someone does), but why no interest in Matt Roth?

Source: Bengals hosted Matt Roth on Friday | ProFootballTalk

 

[supafly]

The Patriots have no interest in Roth probably for the same reason no other team does, he's not that good.

He's good enough to have put up between 3.5 and 5 sacks every year, and at 6'4 1/2 and 275 you'd think he could offer at least--something, being able to play both OLB and DE.

I suppose the simple answer is that Belichick doesn't think highly enough of him to warrant a look.

 

[Marqui]

He's good enough to have put up between 3.5 and 5 sacks every year, and at 6'4 1/2 and 275 you'd think he could offer at least--something, being able to play both OLB and DE.

I suppose the simple answer is that Belichick doesn't think highly enough of him to warrant a look.

Well you're right that he could be decent depth of they sign him for dirt cheap, but I certainly wouldn't give him any real money. He just doesn't offer enough defending the pass, rushing or covering, to want him on the field for a significant number of snaps.

 

[WhiZa]

I doubt that Belichick cares whether or not a guy is on the field in the base package when evaluating what he's worth to the team. What matters is how often he's on the field.

A guy who plays exclusively in sub packages could easily be more valuable than a guy who plays exclusively in the base D.

I totally agree. Which is why some players at the end of the year outplay their contract and others don't live up to it. But in the offseason during contract negotiations it will be brought up that BB will expect him to be in the sub package which will be a point for taking less money.

 

[TheComeback]

I hate to even bring it up again (seems like every year at some point someone does), but why no interest in Matt Roth?

I would assume that Belichick just does not like him enough, or that he just doesn't see enough value compared to Roth's asking price--otherwise they'd at least take a look at him.

He just seems to be the kind of guy that would do well here.

He just isn't that good. He's not really a pass rusher, either.

Also heard he has attitude problems.

 

[upstater1]

These quad injuries are nasty. Sounds like he totally detached it from the bone.

 

[Ring 6]

I would think that he makes the roster at least, with his knowledge of the system already etc. I wouldn't see any reason why Belichick wouldn't try to build on what's there.

We've certainly had a lot worse in the depth charts at the position, and the fact of the matter is that he can play both CB and S.

Maybe it was just me, but I thought his coverage skills looked okay.

He already cut him once and brought him back. Considering we have at least 2 corners that we didn't have when that happened (Dowling and Allen) I think he is far from a lock.
Remember we are talking about a guy who spent 10 weeks not playing football and 6 playing last year.

 

[Ring 6]

These quad injuries are nasty. Sounds like he totally detached it from the bone.

Yup. That sounds like a tough injury to come back 100% from for a guy who's legs are his most important tool.

 

[Ring 6]

He just isn't that good. He's not really a pass rusher, either.

Also heard he has attitude problems.

Didb't BB bring him in for a visit last year?

 

[Ring 6]

I gave Allen the nod because I remembered his deal as being above the veteran minimum, and because I think his play last year was better than the current alternatives. If my recall about his deal is wrong, I could certainly understand someone thinking CB4 is open as well.

I think it is the vet minimum, but looks higher because the minimums have increased for 7+ year vets. I think he got 975k, and I thought the same thing as you, but it turns out, I believe, that its vet min for his length of service.
Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

Not good news for those like myself, who were assuming that he'd be here. Of course part of that assumption was that we'd keep one of Carter/Anderson, and that may be a very stupid reason to assume his return. I just didn't see the loss of both 10+ sack totals in the same year, but it may be more of a possibility than initially thought.

I'm not sure about the usual rehab time for something like a quad tear/surgery, so I don't know if this is unusual or not.

I think it is neither good nor bad news, but just what is expected at this point in his rehab. This was an extemely serious injury.

 

[RayClay]

No, it's not you. Moore showed a lot of raw ability down the stretch last year and was probably the Pats best corner in the playoffs (that's not saying much I know). Plus he has some versatility to play either CB or S. Moore is a near lock imo along with McCourty/Dowling/Arrington.

I wouldn't count on being a lock by anyone, if i was in that secondary. Having said that, a guy with position versatility, that plays teams, that hustles, that keeps his head in the game and makes big plays should be able to win a back up role.

That was the previous problem, draft picks that were playing like they had a government job.

 

[supafly]

He already cut him once and brought him back. Considering we have at least 2 corners that we didn't have when that happened (Dowling and Allen) I think he is far from a lock.
Remember we are talking about a guy who spent 10 weeks not playing football and 6 playing last year.

In fairness to him though Andy, Belichick cut him when the situation was different and he had not had any live game reps. No one knew anything about him, or his ability to make plays in real live game situations.

In the time that he played, my personal opinion is that he has earned more looks. He had 10 passes deflected in only 6 games, (in comparison McCourty had 14 in 17 games) 2 INT's + a TD return also. That's not even taking into account the fact that he had back to back deflections in the AFCCG that allowed them to line up for the missed FG, rather than score the winning TD. Not only that he also caused the fumble that should've prevented the NYG from scoring in the SB--had there not been 12 men on the field. He also led all of the secondary members in each of the playoff games with 2 passes deflected apiece in all 3 games.

When you have the kind of versatility that allows you to play all of the secondary positions (outside, slot, FS, etc), you come extremely cheap, you already have a knowledge of the system here, and you showed that knowledge in live game reps in huge games--I believe you have earned more playing time, and that the coach will try and build off of that.

I would respectfully argue that a guy like Allen would be the one who is far from a lock here. I can't imagine Moore not getting another year to prove whether his showing from last was a one year thing, or something to build around.

 

[ATippett56]

I would respectfully argue that a guy like Allen would be the one who is far from a lock here. I can't imagine Moore not getting another year to prove whether his showing from last was a one year thing, or something to build around.

The New England Patriots may keep 6 cornerbacks and only 4 safeties on the final 53 man roster. There is no rule that states a NFL franchise needs to keep more than 4 safeties on a roster.

 

[supafly]

The New England Patriots may keep 6 cornerbacks and only 4 safeties on the final 53 man roster. There is no rule that states a NFL franchise needs to keep more than 4 safeties on a roster.

I would agree with this thinking, especially this year with more CB's who have the ability to play the safety position in a pinch, due to injury or production issues.

6 CB's and 4 S's is one way to look at it, as is 6 CB's and 5 S's--especially seeing as how we have the Slater issue too.

That's all beside the point though...I would still respectfully disagree with the notion that Allen is a lock on this team regardless.

TC will be a time for it to sort itself out, but adding a 34 yr old CB who successfully defended 3 passes in 15 games played last yr doesn't bode too well in my opinion. It was a signing that was cheap and added competition for the roster. Why anyone would assume that Allen is a 'lock' is beyond me.

As noted by myself and others, many will not agree on who will make the roster--so many of these exercises are futile.

 

[Ring 6]

In fairness to him though Andy, Belichick cut him when the situation was different and he had not had any live game reps. No one knew anything about him, or his ability to make plays in real live game situations.

But, no, he was cut because of his play in a game. After the Indy game when he struggled badly, he was cut. He had just participated in 4 consecutive games, and he was cut loose.

In the time that he played, my personal opinion is that he has earned more looks. He had 10 passes deflected in only 6 games, (in comparison McCourty had 14 in 17 games) 2 INT's + a TD return also. That's not even taking into account the fact that he had back to back deflections in the AFCCG that allowed them to line up for the missed FG, rather than score the winning TD. Not only that he also caused the fumble that should've prevented the NYG from scoring in the SB--had there not been 12 men on the field. He also led all of the secondary members in each of the playoff games with 2 passes deflected apiece in all 3 games.

I suppose the best argument for him would be the AFCCG, since he only came back for week 17. I was not as impressed as others. Frankly I don't see him as playing well on that almost TD, but getting beaten, and very fortunate that he was able to knock the ball out. He was a big part of that drive and the Giants final drive.
He is young and hopefully he can improve but he was a fringe player who only got on the field as a 3rd corner because Antwaun Molden was so bad we played a WR ahead of him.
Perhaps I am being tougher on him than most, and I hope he makes the team and plays great next year, but I don't see him close to a lock. Competing for the 4th or 5th cb spot, sure, but there will be a lot competition.

When you have the kind of versatility that allows you to play all of the secondary positions (outside, slot, FS, etc), you come extremely cheap, you already have a knowledge of the system here, and you showed that knowledge in live game reps in huge games--I believe you have earned more playing time, and that the coach will try and build off of that.

I think playing well earns you playing time. The other things may help you make the team over a competitor without those strengths, but I've never seen BB reward with playing time.

I would respectfully argue that a guy like Allen would be the one who is far from a lock here. I can't imagine Moore not getting another year to prove whether his showing from last was a one year thing, or something to build around.

Maybe this is where we are disagreeing.
First, I am not impressed with his showing. But more importantly I don't think anyone goes into a season in a 'deserves a chance' status. If Allen goes to camp and outplays him and BB feels the team is better with Allen, then Allen is kept.
I don't consider Allen a lock at all. A lock is someone who cannot be beaten out. I think there is every reason to expect that a player with Allens skills and experience could beat Moore out for a job. Who the favorite is would be a different discussion. I am just saying Moore needs to go to camp and earn a spot.