Jets tried to get Tate

[TheSolderKing]

I found the 'debate' just as enjoyable as a hammer finds its 'debate' with a nail.

bahahaha



let me make more out of this image. In this debate JF1 was the nail and Andy was bringing down the hammer on you. (I realize your statement does not refer to my comment (I wanted to have fun with it)

 

[tuckeverlasting]

What does any of that have to do with your comments about Bodden?
Bodden was the starting corner on this team and he missed the entire season. You seem to think that because your knowledge is thin and you forgot who he was that makes his loss insiignificant.
Was Jim Leonhards loss significant to the Jets? He's a 'journeyman'

thanks for the plague of jet fans espn.

 

[The Scrizz]

Thanks for staying up and finishing that guy off Andy, et al. I have an abscessed tooth that is killing me or I would have loved to stay up playing whack-a-mole.

I have gone to PFF and they have this guy rated as the worst message board debater on the Interwebs so maybe they do have some analysis skills after all.

My final question would have been if he watched Hard Knocks where we learned how much they liked Woodhead, that Cromartie is an idiot, and that Wrecks is a fat slob.

 

[JetFan1]

Thanks for staying up and finishing that guy off Andy, et al. I have an abscessed tooth that is killing me or I would have loved to stay up playing whack-a-mole.

I have gone to PFF and they have this guy rated as the worst message board debater on the Interwebs so maybe they do have some analysis skills after all.

My final question would have been if he watched Hard Knocks where we learned how much they liked Woodhead, that Cromartie is an idiot, and that Wrecks is a fat slob.

Is all of that directly out of the Patriot fan handbook?

You would have finished me off, eh? LOL.

 

[JetFan1]

1) Its laughable to say he has more ability. We have already proved by my pointing out and your refusal to disagree that McK is unlikely to ever be as good as Woodhead was in his first year.
2) Measiurables? Now you keep guys because of height?
3) 3rd yr not 4th
4) How can he be overachieving if you say he was cut because he had no stats?
5) Why would overachieving be a bad thing? Are you looking for underachievers?
6) Again, you expect coaches to have to read stat sheets to evaluate players, That is one of your most ridiculous positions, but if that were the case McK had no stats either.
7) If we agree McK is unlikely to ever be as good as Woodhead was in his first year, how can you possibly call it a good decision? Next you are going to tell me trading up for Sanchez instead of staying put and getting Freeman was a good decision.

It's laughable? In McKnight, was once one of the most sought after HS recruits in the country, he had a disappointing colleage career relative to his expectations, but that doesn't change the fact he had the talent and the measurables and was still a 4th round pick.

In Woodhead, you have a Div II player, who is undersized, who scrapped his way on to an NFL roster, spending 3 of those years with the Jets, on IR, and on the PS, and then he finally got his shot.

You're right it is laughable, it's laughable you're maintaining this dream world argument that Woodhead has more ability.

Now if you want to compare who has done more in the league, and who has produced up until this point, sure, I have no argument, but that unfortunately is NOT your argument.

It's also laughable that you are trying to spin that the Jets were arrogant to retain him, a rookie pick, with that ability and measurables, their 4th round pick, over Woodhead, who at the time had done nothing.

So far your only response has been to post his stats in that next season after the Jets released him.

It's laughable you continue this argument without any substance or reasoning at all, just the homered view and spin since he is now a Patriot.

But hey, you have a strong pom pom waving section with some of the other Pats fans here.

 

[Ring 6]

It's laughable? In McKnight, was once one of the most sought after HS recruits in the country, he had a disappointing colleage career relative to his expectations, but that doesn't change the fact he had the talent and the measurables and was still a 4th round pick.

You are comparing his HS career, up to now where he peaked, to Woodhead having a TREMENDOUS season IN THE NFL?
Yeah, measurables.

In Woodhead, you have a Div II player, who is undersized, who scrapped his way on to an NFL roster, spending 3 of those years with the Jets, on IR, and on the PS, and then he finally got his shot.

No you have a guy who played better in 2010 than McK ever will in his career. Or are you telling me now that you expect McK to put up those numbers.
If he is capable of it, then why isn't he playing instead of Green, or even partly ahead of Green?
Woodhead produced more yards in 70 less touches (65% of the touches) than Green last year. If McK could do what Woodhead can, why is he not on the field improving your offense.

You're right it is laughable, it's laughable you're maintaining this dream world argument that Woodhead has more ability.

It has been proven on the football field.

Now if you want to compare who has done more in the league, and who has produced up until this point, sure, I have no argument, but that unfortunately is NOT your argument.

So what determines ability other than what the guy does on the field and what he does to earn getting on the field? Oh yeah, he was higfhly recruited before his disappointing college and pro careers.

It's also laughable that you are trying to spin that the Jets were arrogant to retain him, a rookie pick, with that ability and measurables, their 4th round pick, over Woodhead, who at the time had done nothing.

Woodhead at the time had done more than McK, as evidence by the posts about the preseason efforts.

So far your only response has been to post his stats in that next season after the Jets released him.

Not really. My post has been to use his play on the field to indicate the quality of player he is and that I believe it is a coaching staffs duty to know what a player can produce not wait until they can read stats.
Are you saying Rex wouldn't have kept Woodhead to get the production Woodhead put up?
Surely you can't which leaves that Rex either misevaluated the guy or didn't want to cut a draft pick so made the UDFA the scapegoat.

It's laughable you continue this argument without any substance or reasoning at all, just the homered view and spin since he is now a Patriot.

Actually I have backed up every single point that I have made thoroughly. That isnt even disputable.

But hey, you have a strong pom pom waving section with some of the other Pats fans here.

You are the one waiving the pom poms that player who do crap have 'upside' that a guy who sat on your bench last year after a 'disappointing' college career can be compared to the RB that was more productive per touch than any RB in the NFL.
Think about that. You saying McK is more talented implies that if McK got 132 touches last year he would have produced more from them per touch than ANY R IN THE NFL, yet the Jets chose instead to give the ball to Green 201 times in order to get less yards than you are arguing McK would have gotten on 132.
The 'cheering section' is watching because you are being destroyed in this discussion because every point you are trying to make is wrong. Its fun to watch.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It's laughable? In McKnight, was once one of the most sought after HS recruits in the country, he had a disappointing colleage career relative to his expectations, but that doesn't change the fact he had the talent and the measurables and was still a 4th round pick.

So now the Jets are keeping one guy over a player who has proven that he can produce in the NFL because the other guy was really good in high school? Lol, I'd ask you what you're smoking, but the sad/hilarious thing is that that might very well be the exact reasoning that the Jets used.

More likely: they blew one of their annual three or four draft picks, couldn't come clean about it, so to save face they kept the inferior player. Fair enough; lots of front offices would do the same thing. Luckily for us, the Pats aren't one of them.

 

[JetFan1]

You are comparing his HS career, up to now where he peaked, to Woodhead having a TREMENDOUS season IN THE NFL?
Yeah, measurables.

No, we are talking about ability, can you read?

No you have a guy who played better in 2010 than McK ever will in his career. Or are you telling me now that you expect McK to put up those numbers.
If he is capable of it, then why isn't he playing instead of Green, or even partly ahead of Green?
Woodhead produced more yards in 70 less touches (65% of the touches) than Green last year. If McK could do what Woodhead can, why is he not on the field improving your offense.

Again, we are talking about ability, we are talking about why the Jets would keep McKnight over Woodhead before Woodhead did anything, we are talking about the upside and ability of one player versus another, just as I used in the comparison of the Pats keeping Price over Tate.

McKnight will be in the rotation at RB, it's his second year, what he does this year has nothing to do with this argument.

 

[JetFan1]

So now the Jets are keeping one guy over a player who has proven that he can produce in the NFL because the other guy was really good in high school? Lol, I'd ask you what you're smoking, but the sad/hilarious thing is that that might very well be the exact reasoning that the Jets used.

No, this has nothing to do with the discussion on the topic at all, in fact you have no clue what is being discussed, none of what you just posted makes any sense, and has no bearing on the argument at all.

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks for staying up and finishing that guy off Andy, et al. I have an abscessed tooth that is killing me or I would have loved to stay up playing whack-a-mole.

I have gone to PFF and they have this guy rated as the worst message board debater on the Interwebs so maybe they do have some analysis skills after all.

My final question would have been if he watched Hard Knocks where we learned how much they liked Woodhead, that Cromartie is an idiot, and that Wrecks is a fat slob.

Tooth problems are the worst. Good luck with that.

 

[JetFan1]

It has been proven on the football field.

Stop spinning it, we are talking about Woodhead before he became a Patriot, and production on the field is not directly tied to ability.

You are the one waiving the pom poms that player who do crap have 'upside' that a guy who sat on your bench last year after a 'disappointing' college career can be compared to the RB that was more productive per touch than any RB in the NFL.

Think about that. You saying McK is more talented implies that if McK got 132 touches last year he would have produced more from them per touch than ANY R IN THE NFL, yet the Jets chose instead to give the ball to Green 201 times in order to get less yards than you are arguing McK would have gotten on 132.

Horse****, I'm not waving pom poms about any player, I'm talking about your asinine statment that the Jets were arrogant and stupid for keeping McKnight over Woodhead, that was the original statement.

The 'cheering section' is watching because you are being destroyed in this discussion because every point you are trying to make is wrong. Its fun to watch.

Destroyed? LOL. Is this how all you Pats operate, you take an argument, and spin and twist the **** out of it until you have convinced yourselves you were right? The discussion has evolved from your stupid statement about the Jets being arrogant and stupid for keeping McKnight over Woodhead, to an argument about a comparision of McKnight and Woodhead in the present day.

 

[Ring 6]

No, we are talking about ability, can you read?

And your 'proof' of his ability is what he did in HS before his 'disappointing' college and pro careers.
My proof is that when Danny Woodhead touched the ball last year he gained more yards per touch than any RB in the league.

Again, we are talking about ability, we are talking about why the Jets would keep McKnight over Woodhead before Woodhead did anything, we are talking about the upside and ability of one player versus another, just as I used in the comparison of the Pats keeping Price over Tate.

Once again. Woodhead was the player he is before he produced the stats. The talent level didnt change because he put up stats.
Upside is a stupid argument because its the only straw you can grasp to ignore they kept the wrong guy.
Its basically saying The Patriots kept Tom Brady over Kevin OConnell, but no one knows how good OConnell could be, so his upside is better.
The Price/Tate argument is moronic.
Price is a better player. If you read the responses you would actually see that if the decision was based upon upside Tate would have been kept not Price, because Tate was more highly regarded in the draft.

McKnight will be in the rotation at RB, it's his second year, what he does this year has nothing to do with this argument.

It has everything to do with this argument because it will show US what his ability is.
His ability is already determined, just as Woodheads is.
Woodheads has been illustrated to us, by gaining more yards per touch than any RB in the NFL.
McKs will be if he ever gets on the field and if/when he doesnt that will answer it by default.

 

[Ring 6]

Stop spinning it, we are talking about Woodhead before he became a Patriot, and production on the field is not directly tied to ability.

WHAT?????????????????
Let me get this straight. Your ability to play football and how you actually play football have nothing to do with each other?
Wow. I wish you would have stated this at the beginning and I could have avoided wasting time arguing with someone who cant even understand the basics.

Horse****, I'm not waving pom poms about any player, I'm talking about your asinine statment that the Jets were arrogant and stupid for keeping McKnight over Woodhead, that was the original statement.

The original discussion was the horrendous level of depth on the Jets. You made positive, cheering statements about each and every scrub and their 'upside'

Destroyed?

Yeah pretty much.

LOL. Is this how all you Pats operate, you take an argument, and spin and twist the **** out of it until you have convinced yourselves you were right?

Nope. I deal in the facts, and in this case 100% of them support my opinion and zero % of them support your defensive posture of ignoring the Jets cut the wrong guy.

The discussion has evolved from your stupid statement about the Jets being arrogant and stupid for keeping McKnight over Woodhead, to an argument about a comparision of McKnight and Woodhead in the present day.

Seriously, do you read?
I already pointed out arrogant wasn't my word. You lied and said it was and I directed you to post #65 and you still are lying and saying it was.

Present day? It was a year ago.
Wait, are you saying that whether it is a good or bad decision is not dependent on the results of the decision?

Right now, are you saying the Jets would not have been better off giving 132 touches to Woodhead than to keep the guy who puked his way through camp and sat on the bench all year until he played a game of garbage time vs the worst D in the NFL?
Is that your position?

And exactly how does the question of who has more ability get answered if we aren't allowed to use what they actually do on a football field? HS recruiting?

 

[JetFan1]

And your 'proof' of his ability is what he did in HS before his 'disappointing' college and pro careers.
My proof is that when Danny Woodhead touched the ball last year he gained more yards per touch than any RB in the league.

Yes, we are talking about ability, his measurables as an athlete, one was a op HS recruit, who had high expectations at the collegiate level because of his talent. The other a Div II player who scrapped his way on to an NFL roster, not sure what else there is to compare at both players' stages last year in training camp.

You keep reaching back to last year's stats, those numbers are not in the equation when both players were on the Jets roster.

I know it's your only spin, but you have beaten that horse, I've destroyed you on this front, yet you continue to reach for that stick...

Once again. Woodhead was the player he is before he produced the stats. The talent level didnt change because he put up stats.
Upside is a stupid argument because its the only straw you can grasp to ignore they kept the wrong guy.
Its basically saying The Patriots kept Tom Brady over Kevin OConnell, but no one knows how good OConnell could be, so his upside is better.
The Price/Tate argument is moronic.
Price is a better player. If you read the responses you would actually see that if the decision was based upon upside Tate would have been kept not Price, because Tate was more highly regarded in the draft.

Right, he was the same scrappy player that overachieved, his production wasn't based on his talent, and there could be an entire argument made about whether Woodhead would have put up the numbers he did he not been playing with Brady as his QB.

The Pace/Price argument is absolutely relevant, and 100% comparable, it just doesn't fit your agenda and spin.

It has everything to do with this argument because it will show US what his ability is.
His ability is already determined, just as Woodheads is.
Woodheads has been illustrated to us, by gaining more yards per touch than any RB in the NFL.
McKs will be if he ever gets on the field and if/when he doesnt that will answer it by default.

Back to that dead horse, we are talking about Woodhead before he became a Patriot. I sure hope you get this before the next 10 pages are put up in this thread, 5, that have your moronic and incorrect comments, and the other 5 of your pom pom support.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Stop spinning it, we are talking about Woodhead before he became a Patriot, and production on the field is not directly tied to ability.

A) Neither Woodhead nor McKnight had any NFL regular season stats prior to last season, so that's a moot point anyways.
B) lol, what? You must have a curious definition of ability then, and one that only an idiot would make roster decisions based on.

Newflash, everyone: it turns out that production on the field isn't directly tied to ability! Who knew?

 

[Joker]

Day Two of "The Guy In The Green Glasses".......

Up is Down!!!....Black Is White!!...Upside Has No Downside!!!

 

[JetFan1]

A) Neither Woodhead nor McKnight had any NFL regular season stats prior to last season, so that's a moot point anyways.
B) lol, what? You must have a curious definition of ability then, and one that only an idiot would make roster decisions based on.

Newflash, everyone: it turns out that production on the field isn't directly tied to ability! Who knew?

Still has nothing to do with the argument, but thanks again for chiming in for nothing.

No kidding players shouldn't be evaluated on ability alone, it is just one of many variables.

Again, my only point in all of this was to dispute the statement made that Tannenbaum is spineless, and the Jets were arrogant and stupid for releasing Woodhead over McKnight, and that Tannenbaum makes decisions based on what the fans think...

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, we are talking about ability, his measurables as an athlete, one was a op HS recruit, who had high expectations at the collegiate level because of his talent. The other a Div II player who scrapped his way on to an NFL roster, not sure what else there is to compare at both players' stages last year in training camp.

And however they got there one is clearly better than the other. You may be the only person in the world not named McKnight who hasn't accepted this fact.
You compare their ability on a football field. What they do in workouts in practice in preseason games.
You sound like you think coaches cut players based on what they did in HS or college and not what they do right in front of them. That is ludicrous.
Put them on the practice field and evaluate them. What you see them doing tells you what they will do on the field.
This isnt fanatasy football, its having 2 players on your team, putting them through drills, practices, workouts, etc in order to evaluate and determine who is the better player. Ryan made the wrong choice.

You keep reaching back to last year's stats, those numbers are not in the equation when both players were on the Jets roster.

Of course they are. They are the evidence of the ability Ryan should have recognized.
Coaches dont evaluate players by stats. They evaluate them by ability, and if they are correct the stats match the evaluation.

I know it's your only spin, but you have beaten that horse, I've destroyed you on this front, yet you continue to reach for that stick...

So you think your argument that ability and what you do on the field are unrelated is a good one? If so you frankly are a moron.

Right, he was the same scrappy player that overachieved, his production wasn't based on his talent, and there could be an entire argument made about whether Woodhead would have put up the numbers he did he not been playing with Brady as his QB.

Wait. Now what the man actually accomplished isnt due to his ability? Being heavily recruited out of HS before a disappointing rest of your life is more indicative of talent that playing exceptionally well in the NFL?
You seem to think "scrappy" and "overachieving" are insults.

And yes there could be an argument about the effect of Brady, but it would be as stupid as all of your others, so why bother?

The Pace/Price argument is absolutely relevant, and 100% comparable, it just doesn't fit your agenda and spin.

Seriously, you have to give up this denial you are in.
As soon as Price gains more yards per touch than any WR in the NFL and Price does absolutely nothing, then it would begin to be relevant until you realize that if this mysterious 'upside' criteria you made up would lead to keeping Tate instead of Price.

Back to that dead horse, we are talking about Woodhead before he became a Patriot. I sure hope you get this before the next 10 pages are put up in this thread, 5, that have your moronic and incorrect comments, and the other 5 of your pom pom support.

One more time.

1 year ago Woodhead and McKnight were on a team.
Woodhead, the guy who went on to produce the best yp touch of any RB in the NFL was cut. The day he was cut he was the guy capable of doing that.

Is your argument now that the Jets just blow at evaluating so they couldn't forsee how much better Woodhead is?
You agree that Woodhead has proven to be a better player right?

 

[Ring 6]

Still has nothing to do with the argument, but thanks again for chiming in for nothing.

No kidding players shouldn't be evaluated on ability alone, it is just one of many variables.

Again, my only point in all of this was to dispute the statement made that Tannenbaum is spineless, and the Jets were arrogant and stupid for releasing Woodhead over McKnight, and that Tannenbaum makes decisions based on what the fans think...

Did the Jets pick the right guy. Yes or no.
Drop the bs, silly rhetoric twisting of 'ability' and how they should have known what the guy they had 3 years was capable of.

Right here right now, in your opinion have the Jets made a good or bad decision by keeping Clowney and McK instead of Woodhead and either one?

 

[JetFan1]

Did the Jets pick the right guy. Yes or no.
Drop the bs, silly rhetoric twisting of 'ability' and how they should have known what the guy they had 3 years was capable of.

Right here right now, in your opinion have the Jets made a good or bad decision by keeping Clowney and McK instead of Woodhead and either one?

Keeping McKnight, without question.

Keeping Clowney over Woodhead? Of course not.

Are the Jets arrogant and stupid for keeping McKnight over Woodhead? Not even close, it was the smart decision.