It is Absolutely Imperative That We Spend To The Cap This Year

[maverick4]

p8ryts, where in my posts did I say we didn't have a good team, or that it was doomsday? Also, I have posted in other threads about having patience to develop more chemistry on offense.

On this issue, I am speaking from the player's psychological perspective. I think we have a lot of talented young players, and if we intend to extend any of them, why not just do it now?

Our system is very good, but it IS a house of cards that can come crumbling down if our best players become disgruntled and disillusioned (and I am not talking about Brady).

 

[Oswlek]

Oswlek, maybe you need to improve your reading comprehension before you post anymore.

Nobody (well, at least me anyway) is complaining about not re-signing the guys that left. Those guys got top dollar elsewhere, which means they got overpaid. That is over and done with.

I am saying that now, given our current situation, we need to use that money and spread it around to who we deem to be the future core of this club. We do have some great young talent with 2 years or less left here. By re-negotiating now, we engender good faith, and also probably get a better deal for later years on the contract compared to if we wait until next year.

At the same time, we appease our veteran leadership and our young future core with the fact that yes, we don't overpay, but we do try to spend to the max, so it is still fair in a way that you can understand.

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Actually, this whole cap issue is borne out of frustration that NE did *not* spend money before, so I don't believe that my post was wrong in any way. Plus, would everyone be saying these things if it was known for sure that the cap space is $4.4mm, which it either is or likely will be at some point when Seymour's bonus is paid? I doubt it.

If NE doesn't do anything to fill in the gap, I will be surprised, but it doesn't mean they don't care about winning. As long as the team wins the East, which the likely will, and their offer is decent to whomever they are dealing with, these issues aren't going to be of importance.

The only way I see this coming back to bite them is if they fail to make the playoffs. Winning cures much.

 

[maverick4]

The only way I see this coming back to bite them is if they fail to make the playoffs. Winning cures much.

I respectfully disagree. I think when multiple players re-sign with us below value, there is an implicit understanding that they are doing this so money can be spent for other players, for the good of the team.

This type of good faith arrangement will no longer exist if we leave millions on the table unspent. Not only will future players not re-sign with us at good values, but we will also piss off our current players who knowingly signed below value.

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[Brownfan80]

I respectfully disagree. I think when multiple players re-sign with us, there is an implicit understanding that they are doing this so money can be spent for other players, for the good of the team.

This type of good faith arrangement will no longer exist if we leave millions on the table unspent. Not only will future players not re-sign with us at good values, but we will also piss off our current players who knowingly signed below value.

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I think your theory is based much on speculation.

Also: I think it'd be one thing if the Pats let guys simply WALK without offering them deals. Willie, Branch, Vinatieri, and even Law got offers, they just decided to leave for the biggest dollar.

I think the players understand it's a business and that other players may choose to take that biggest buck elsewhere while they choose to take a little less in some cases to stay here.

I don't see this ever being a big issue in the locker room. The media might make a deal of it, but that's what Tom was talking about when it was inside issues vs outside issues.

 

[pats1]

Scout, what marquee player will be willing to sign with us if they know we left so much unspent this year? Even with Rodney and Vrabel, they just felt lucky to be wanted; they weren't marquee when they signed. Also, you will never get another veteran to re-sign at below value if we don't spend to the cap.

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"Signing marquee players" is a requirement?

Who are we? The Colts?


I'll talk to you in February.

It's not "IMPERATIVE" that the Pats spend to the cap "BY WEEK 10." What, and after that, the Pats won't be a good team? And why is it "imperative?" At game 10, will every Patriot spontaneously combust while the Razor falls victim to massive riots?

Please.

The players care about winning - what they're watching on film for the next week, what they're doing in practice. They take it one game at a time, eventually leading to the Super Bowl. Don't fool yourself into thinking the Pats leaving $5 million in cap space instead of $10 mil. is going to change their mindset.

These players were hand-picked as the best and brightest out there. They completely understand that the current cap space is moreso a product of prudency in past years than this past offseason. Also, most of the current players have witnessed the Pats staying frugal and avoiding high-cost free agents and other contracts in past WINNING seasons.

Furthermore, what would be the POINT to spending to the cap? Just for the SAKE OF IT? What added extra would spending a few extra dollars bring to the success of the team? I doubt handing out a few more Bejamins to Brady is going to make any real difference in his pay. Seymour knows he's going to get his money one way or another, so when he gets his bonus is irrelevant.

So where else would you spend the money? Street free agents? So you'd sign, say, Corey Bradford to a $1 year, minimum salary deal - which would only reduce the cap space by <$1 million. Fantastic. He's been either on his couch or playing on a team that's the equivalent of such the first 1/4 of the season. How would he be a legit upgrade over somebody like Bam or Jonathan that have been here all of September, or Bam's case, since July of 2005?

I find your argument smacking of desperation in light of the Denver loss.

 

[aabtec]

I don't give a crap about the players' feelings but I agree as a fan. I'll be pissed if we leave that money unspent. If we spend it on Seymour's option and give Brady a big bonus to reduce his future cap hit, fine. It doesn't have to be on the upcoming UFA. But it has to be spent.

Well, contracry to popular belief the players are not robots. They care about whom they are playing with. Yes, they have SB rings and make alot of money.Which means that they can walk away at any time. So if the working environment is not right they will leave.

 

[Clonamery]

"Signing marquee players" is a requirement?

Who are we? The Colts?


I'll talk to you in February.

Why?

Because that's when the season is finally over and we can do a fair assessment of what's been done or hasn't been done?

I though this was the Pats - P(anic) A(ll) T(hreads) S(ay) - Forum.

 

[Clonamery]

.Which means that they can walk away at any time.

Huh? What? Say again?

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Should Brady be making more? Yeah, I'll give you that one. But, Matt Light cant stay healthy, Bruschi has been injury prone, Rodney had nowhere to go and CHOSE to come here for the money on the table, Brown is at the end of his career. Upon looking at Givens stats, I am pretty sure we can all laugh at the contract demands he made. Branch, we'll lets not discuss Branch, he got what we wanted and we moved on. However, Brady has never had a deep threat at receiver and we have won 3 ******* SB's.

Well, a few things here. Rodney was courted by the Raiders and Broncos heavily as a FA. If memory serves, he was about to sign a contract with Oak when BB made a late, full court press to get Rodney into town for a meeting. Rodney red-eyed into Logan during the dead of winter in his shorts, froze his ass off and was wined and dined by the Pats brass who took him to the......Ground Round! Even in the midst of this meeting, the Raiders kept calling. I think Rodney signed a contract with the Pats that was slightly less than what the Raiders were offering later that afternoon. Obviously, I think we got him at a bargain because he's one of my favorite Patriot. However, it's not exactly like he signed for chump change for his total salary in '05 ranked him in the top 10 at the SS position. Last year, he made more than Archuletta, Ed Reed and Michael Lewis.

Brady and Bruschi are the ones who truly qualify as guys who've taken less to stay with the franchise. Light, I feel, signed a very fair long-term deal a couple years ago.

As far as Givens goes, I agree with this move made by the brass. My contention is with not having signed someone to replace not only his departure but as a safety net in case Branch departed. The name Javon Walker's been cited many times on this board, but I would have been happy with Eric Moulds who was available via trade that would have cost a second day draft pick.

Lastly, if Bethel, Dwight, Andre Davis and Branch were not deep threats, then I don't know what you mean by deep threat. True Bethel and Davis were less than stellar in their tenures here, however, they could both fly and defenses had to respect their speed. The threat that one play could result in a long TD kept defenses honest unlike this past game with Denver.

 

[Seymour93]

p8ryts, where in my posts did I say we didn't have a good team, or that it was doomsday?

You never said such a thing. Some posters are quick to point the finger and accuse people of not believing in this team. Well as someone who questions the direction of the FO, I can assure you that I do believe that this is a playoff team just like last season's squad. But the thing is, is being a playoff team good enough? With the Patriots being the second most valuable franchise, charging fans $90 a ticket, they have higher standards; being just division winners doesn't cut it.

I keep hearing, "Well, we're keeping the money to re-sign our young starters." What is taking so long then? Have you heard anything about negotiations in progress? It's gotten to the point where it's hampering the club. There are going to be teams out there who are willing to pay over the odds for Koppen, Graham, and even Samuel, therefore we need to get these guys re-signed before the end of season when they hit the market. If the FO haven't learned from the Branch fiasco to not put things off, then they get what they deserve, a mediocre team.

It's going to be very difficult for us to bag another Colvin, no doubt. We had ex-players lobbying targets to NOT come to NE because they wouldn't get the money that they could receive elsewhere. That's really telling you something. Add to that, the perception that has formed league-wide is that we are cheap.

The FO has the power to turn things around however. Get the young guys re-signed ASAP; let one walk if you have to. Go into free agency pushing for high profile, good players. Don't settle for your supposed bargains like Caldwell and Beisel. As long as we have our current scouting system we will continue to draft well. As long as you draft well, you will be competitive. But as mentioned above, being competitive isn't enough for this franchise any more.

 

[pats1]

Why?

Because that's when the season is finally over and we can do a fair assessment of what's been done or hasn't been done?

I though this was the Pats - P(anic) A(ll) T(hreads) S(ay) - Forum.

Spending to the cap at this point in the season will barely make ANY impact on the current season. In all likelihood, it would put a cap burden on next year's team as well.

Therefore, we'll see in February when the Pats are celebrating in Miami how "imperative" it was they they spend to the cap.

 

[Clonamery]

Spending to the cap at this point in the season will barely make ANY impact on the current season. In all likelihood, it would put a cap burden on next year's team as well.

Therefore, we'll see in February when the Pats are celebrating in Miami how "imperative" it was they they spend to the cap.

Yes, agreed.

 

[marty]

I think the psychological impact of unspent cap on our current players and potential players is being blown out of proportion here. What evidence is there that the Krafts will not spend to the cap this year? OTOH they have spent to the cap and sometimes pinched by the cap every year so far, yes?
As mentioned already, a few IR replacements and select bonuses will make the cap melt away soon enough. No need to jump the gun, w/without the proposed hysterics in the locker room!

 

[pats1]

You never said such a thing. Some posters are quick to point the finger and accuse people of not believing in this team. Well as someone who questions the direction of the FO, I can assure you that I do believe that this is a playoff team just like last season's squad. But the thing is, is being a playoff team good enough? With the Patriots being the second most valuable franchise, charging fans $90 a ticket, they have higher standards; being just division winners doesn't cut it.

Right, and the team's ticket prices have such an impact on whether they'll be more than division winners or not.

I keep hearing, "Well, we're keeping the money to re-sign our young starters." What is taking so long then? Have you heard anything about negotiations in progress? It's gotten to the point where it's hampering the club. There are going to be teams out there who are willing to pay over the odds for Koppen, Graham, and even Samuel, therefore we need to get these guys re-signed before the end of season when they hit the market. If the FO haven't learned from the Branch fiasco to not put things off, then they get what they deserve, a mediocre team.

Wait - when do we EVER hear about negotiations, especially during the season?

This isn't the time to be dealing with contracts and getting players' minds off football. It's about preparing for the next opponent - the contract talk can come later on.

It's going to be very difficult for us to bag another Colvin, no doubt. We had ex-players lobbying targets to NOT come to NE because they wouldn't get the money that they could receive elsewhere. That's really telling you something. Add to that, the perception that has formed league-wide is that we are cheap.

Thanks for the news. The Pats have been doing business like that since BB has been here.

But it only takes one stupid loss for some fans to completely forget about that, right?

The FO has the power to turn things around however. Get the young guys re-signed ASAP; let one walk if you have to. Go into free agency pushing for high profile, good players. Don't settle for your supposed bargains like Caldwell and Beisel. As long as we have our current scouting system we will continue to draft well. As long as you draft well, you will be competitive. But as mentioned above, being competitive isn't enough for this franchise any more.

High profile players in free agency.

The Patriots.

Have those two EVER gone together?

The Pats need to stop settling for players like Vrabel and Patten and start breaking the bank on Alexander or James.

Yep, that's been a great winning philosophy.


...sigh...how quickly they forget...

 

[maverick4]

"Signing marquee players" is a requirement?

Who are we? The Colts?

Did people all fail their SAT's or something? Reading comprehension on this board is horrible.

pats1, I was responding to the poster's argument that maybe we are saving a bunch of money to make a spash in the free agent market next year.

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[Jimke]

At this point, the only way the Pats might spend closer to the cap is by

extending Daniel Graham, Dan Koppen, or Asante Samuel. I personally

do not believe they will offer them market value and they will not

re-sign.

 

[Seymour93]

Wait - when do we EVER hear about negotiations, especially during the season?

Ummm, weren't we negotiating with Branch during last season, before they were suddenly called off?

This isn't the time to be dealing with contracts and getting players' minds off football. It's about preparing for the next opponent - the contract talk can come later on.

And have the same thing happen to Graham/Koppen/Samuel as it did with Branch. Brilliant plan.

High profile players in free agency.

The Patriots.

Have those two EVER gone together?

Well, Colvin and Harrison have worked out, so maybe we can try it again.

The Pats need to stop settling for players like Vrabel and Patten and start breaking the bank on Alexander or James.

Vrabel and Patten were signed over five years ago. Since then we've shuffled through highly successful projects such as Donald Hayes, Steve Martin, Monty Beisel, Chad Brown, Caldwell....

 

[maverick4]

Spending to the cap at this point in the season will barely make ANY impact on the current season. In all likelihood, it would put a cap burden on next year's team as well.

Therefore, we'll see in February when the Pats are celebrating in Miami how "imperative" it was they they spend to the cap.

Ya think? But at the same time, we can potentially lower later cap years by re-signing some young studs early. That is, unless we expect them all to bolt when they're done here.

pats1, your thinking is so simplistic. Nobody here is getting all worked up over one loss. You seem not to be able to grasp the long term view and psychological good will that is being debated.

.

 

[pats1]

Ummm, weren't we negotiating with Branch during last season, before they were suddenly called off?

And have the same thing happen to Graham/Koppen/Samuel as it did with Branch. Brilliant plan.

Well, Colvin and Harrison have worked out, so maybe we can try it again.

Vrabel and Patten were signed over five years ago. Since then we've shuffled through highly successful projects such as Donald Hayes, Steve Martin, Monty Beisel, Chad Brown, Caldwell....

So are you then calling for a fundamental change in the Pats' free agency tactics?

(i.e. "The Reskins' way?")

 

[pats1]

Ya think? But at the same time, we can potentially lower later cap years by re-signing some young studs early. That is, unless we expect them all to bolt when they're done here.

pats1, your thinking is so simplistic. Nobody here is getting all worked up over one loss. You seem not to be able to grasp the long term view and psychological good will that is being debated.

.

Psychological impact? Are you kidding me?

What, you're saying that Asante Samuel spends his nights surfing Miguel's page, then stampeding into Scott's office the next morning after he sees the Pats are $10 million under the cap?

WINNING is what they care about. Certainly is great for buying into the Pats' philosophies, too. As I said - they've all witenessed what the Pats' approach to the money game has brought. They can take a stroll through the trophy room for that one.

Spending to the cap in this current year should have no bearing on whether the players feel gypped or not. It's the future that matters. It's a continuous cycle. Present prudency in spending leads to cap flexiblity 2-3 years from now. Prudency in spending 2-3 years from now leads to cap flexibility 5-6 years from now, and so on.

Simpistic? Sure! That's the way it works! It is what it is!