It is Absolutely Imperative That We Spend To The Cap This Year

[shmessy]

!00% right:

On this board you get barbecued unless you are a cheerleader. If you say anything even slightly critical...justified or not you get attacked.


Lets be honest, the Pats FO badly miscalculated this offseason. If they had played it right, the PATS could have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Biggest mistakes:

1) Letting Branch go
2) Not signing at least 2 pivotal impact free agents to replace our losses
3) Not closing the deal with Ty Law
4) Too late now for them to spend the dollars for this years team, allthey can do is restructure contracts for next year.

Not meaning to "barbecue" you, but could you please elaborate why you think the season is already over - just three games in?

 

[pats1]

!00% right:

On this board you get barbecued unless you are a cheerleader. If you say anything even slightly critical...justified or not you get attacked.


Lets be honest, the Pats FO badly miscalculated this offseason. If they had played it right, the PATS could have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Biggest mistakes:

1) Letting Branch go
2) Not signing at least 2 pivotal impact free agents to replace our losses
3) Not closing the deal with Ty Law
4) Too late now for them to spend the dollars for this years team, allthey can do is restructure contracts for next year.

Legit Super Bowl contender? Who said the Pats weren't? It's WEEK THREE!

Are you trying to say that the Saints, with a 3-0 record, are a Super Bowl contender and the Pats aren't?

 

[grogan2767]

I miss Branch, Adam, Givens, WIllie, etc.

However, the FO is doing the right things. We don't want to be the Tennessee Titans some time in the future, then we are stuck for years in the cellar. Pats had an amazing stretch of winning SBs. However, in the NFL, any good team that gets one of those byes can win it all. (Pitt did it with no bye on the road!) By remaining disciplined, they may be able to compete every year, for a longer time. Each of those years becomes an opportunity to get into that tournament, maybe with a bye. Then they have multiple shots at SBs for most of Brady's career. If you give in to all these demands, there is a good chance the twilight years of Brady's career is mediocre or worse. BB has proven that he knows what he is doing by winning 3 SBs and by consistently putting out defenses that tend to excel past their talent level. Overpaying Branch would have been a mistake. IMO, if they had overpaid him, we would be better today, but in trouble long term. Frankly the one that bums me out the most is Adam at this point. I know he is hurt, but he is going to be fine. The thing about kicker is games are close in the NFL, and the kicker can win or lose these close games, which is all that matters. It does not matter if you win by 21 or by the 3 in the standings. Something tells me that the rest of our offense will turn out pretty good this year. I see alot of points getting lost in the kicking game due to lost field goals.

 

[Oswlek]

!00% right:

On this board you get barbecued unless you are a cheerleader. If you say anything even slightly critical...justified or not you get attacked.


Lets be honest, the Pats FO badly miscalculated this offseason. If they had played it right, the PATS could have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Biggest mistakes:

1) Letting Branch go
2) Not signing at least 2 pivotal impact free agents to replace our losses
3) Not closing the deal with Ty Law
4) Too late now for them to spend the dollars for this years team, allthey can do is restructure contracts for next year.

I am one of the posters who spoke out the loudest against this cap nonsense, yet if you look I have been critical in just the past week about:

1) NE's dealings with Branch - although this gets overblown. I have said it dozens of times, yet people still ignore it; once NE didn't eliminate year 5 of Branch's rookie deal he was gone. There is nothing NE could have done to get him back at that point. So they made a mistake early, but everything after that is hard to criticize.

2) The playcalling in the last game.

3) The D letting up too many big plays third down conversions

4) Brady

I personally find it funny that someone who is a fan of this team could be so put off by another member(s) that recognizes NE's faults, yet chooses to believe that they will improve. Just like dealing with the stock market where there is no historic precedent to believe that a down turn will be permanent, there is every reason to believe that the team will get better. In every season with BB, NE has had a better winning % after Nov than they did before. Why are so many, including yourself, ignoring this fact? If thinking NE is still a good team makes me a "cheerleader" so be it. I would rather that than using the team as an excuse to make myself miserable.

In case you didn't notice, NE did get into the FA market, they were just outbid by other teams. This is entirely predictible, not because they are cheap (every offer they made was competitive) but because they are still The NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS. If they are after a player, the other team recognizes a) the guy has a decent chance of being good and b) the biggest leverage they have over NE is money, since winning probably isn't one of them. BTW, Law admitted that he didn't want to come to NE because he wants to prove that he is not a "system CB". How is that NE's fault again?

t also is apparent that NE made a conscious decision to get younger. Look at the FAs that left, only Givens and Davis are likely going into their peak years. Maybe Ashworth as well, but he is a JAG. Add in the fact that 9 rookies made the team this year, and it is pretty clear. That could be another reason that they didn't jump at so many FAs.

This team is still going to win the East, and even if they lose every FA on their roster next year, they will have 10-11 draft picks, including 2 firsts. So, they will likely be the favorite to win their division next year. While I think they are SB bound this year, even if they don't go all the way, I don't see how anyone could feel that this is not a successful team. It is mindboggling.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

!00% right:

On this board you get barbecued unless you are a cheerleader. If you say anything even slightly critical...justified or not you get attacked.


Lets be honest, the Pats FO badly miscalculated this offseason. If they had played it right, the PATS could have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Biggest mistakes:

1) Letting Branch go
2) Not signing at least 2 pivotal impact free agents to replace our losses
3) Not closing the deal with Ty Law
4) Too late now for them to spend the dollars for this years team, allthey can do is restructure contracts for next year.

1) He wasn't coming in until week 10 and it's debatable how much he would have contributed after missing all of TC and the PS as well. He was demanding they do something for him the did not do for Brady or Seymour and frankly, he just wasn't good enough to justify that kind of exception.

2) Like who? Should we have overpaid for a couple Poston's of big name bad boys like Arrington or Woodson? The best FA on the market this season by most accounts was... a place kicker. It was a lean year. They tried to sign DeShea Townsend out of the gate but turns out he was one of those jerks who wants to stay with the team who drafted him.

3) In hindsight it was apparent Ty wasn't interested in coming home, just using his former family to drive up his price for KC. Ty not only wanted his money he is still determined to prove it was all him and not the system that made him look like a potential HOF CB.

4) This team already has 3 Lombardi's and they are not operating in a window. Although you would never guess it listening to some of the whining what have you done for me lately's in this fan base. There will be football in 2007 and beyond and they are not beholden to any of us to frig up a system that has won half of the Lombardi's contested in the last 6 years just so you will feel upbeat about their chances this season.

The Patriots were not a legitimate contender in 2001 or by many accounts in 2003 when they all hated their coach. How'd that work out?

 

[Miguel]

The system works best when it acquires quality players other less fiscally responsible teams were forced to cut due to cap constraints.

Please name the current Patriot players that met your definition - a quality player that less fiscally responsible team was forced to cut due to cap constraints. When was the last time the Patriot acquired such a player?? I would say Rodney Harrison in 2003. Heath Evans does not cut it for me.

This season there were few of those kinds of players cut because of a one time mega bump in the cap due to the signing of new television deals. The cap won't be going up exponentially from here on out and salaries across the board will catch up to that bump shortly.

The cap is going to be $109 million next year, a $7 million increase. The $7 million increase is the 3rd highest increase in the salary cap era.

Year Salary Cap (per club) Increase Pct Increase
2007 $109,000,000 $7,000,000 6.86%
2006 $102,000,000 $16,500,000 19.30%
2005 $85,500,000 $4,918,000 6.10%
2004 $80,582,000 $5,575,000 7.43%
2003 $75,007,000 $3,907,000 5.50%
2002 $71,100,000 $3,700,000 5.49%
2001 $67,400,000 $5,228,000 8.41%
2000 $62,172,000 $3,819,000 6.54%
1999 $58,353,000 $5,965,000 11.39%
1998 $52,388,000 $10,938,000 26.39%
1997 $41,450,000 $673,000 1.65%
1996 $40,777,000 $3,677,000 9.91%
1995 $37,100,000 $2,500,000 7.23%
1994 $34,600,000

There has already been talk that the 2010 cap will be $150 million.

Please note that if the 32 NFL teams do not spend 84% of the cap on players this year future caps will be getting a credit making it even easier for teams in the future to stay under the cap.

As they do veteran players with too high a cap # but a little something left in the tank including that hunger for a Lombardi will become available again.
This team would be well served to keep rolling $3-5M forward for that eventuality.

When will this eventuality occur???
2007??
2008???
2009??
2010???

Let's say that the Patriots do not the Lombardi this year. Why would a veteran hungry for a Lombardi sign with the Patriots and not with the team that did win the Lombardi??

Because those kind of players sprinkled in between the real core (Brady, Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, Colvin and Seymour for now) and the young talent they draft well and coach up are what Belichick utilizes to maintain the system.

The system worked when the cap was going up by no more than 6 million. There is no evidence that the system will work when the cap will be going up by at least $7 million in the near future. There is no evidence that the system won't work, either. That's why they play the games. As far as I can tell, Ian allows posters to comment throughout the year and not just after the season is over. This board would be rather boring if posters were not allowed to predict/project/comment on how the future will be. IMO, it is within reason to question whether the system will continue to work. Look at the depth of this team and compare it to the depth of the 2003/2004 Patriots. This team is dependent on its star players (Brady, Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Warren, Wilfork, Light) than it has been in the past.

Guys who just want their money are the no different than talent that simply cannot play within the system, and Belioli probably wishes the fan base and the media could just understand and appreciate and freakin' come to terms with that.
It is what it is.

I hope not because I think that the NFL entered a new salary cap era.

 

[Miguel]

!00% right:

On this board you get barbecued unless you are a cheerleader. If you say anything even slightly critical...justified or not you get attacked.

Which is why I do not predict Patriots losses on this board.

 

[pats1]

Look at the depth of this team and compare it to the depth of the 2003/2004 Patriots. This team is dependent on its star players (Brady, Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Warren, Wilfork, Light) than it has been in the past.

I don't recall Rabih Abdullah, Kevin Kasper, Bethel Johnson, Jed Weaver, Ethan Kelley, Eric Alexander, Earthwind Moreland, Hank Poteat, Dexter Reid, or Je'Rod Cherry making huge contributions in 2004.

I can't see your argument that the 2003/4 teams were noticeably deeper than this current team.

 

[marcus]

Good points from both sides.

The season is NOT over yet...but there are some very concerning signs that have not been present in past seasons...including 3 consecutive Tom Brady sub par performances, lack of depth, and an abundance of very solid teams.
I still maintain that the FO performance over the off season was poor and several key mistakes were made.

This obviously is just opnion and it could be proven to be wrong.

However, there should be room on this board for dissenting opinions and the "knee jerk" reflex attacks on such dissenting opinions should be minimized.
Pointing out and discussing issues and concerns for the future and suggesting alternative strategies should be part of the fun of being on this board.


If everyone just blindly follows the BB/Pioli Kool Aid and never ever questions, then this board will be more like a "mindless" cult following worshipping every move of the FO.


I hope some of the senior memeber on this board can set the example and welcome reasoned dissenting opinion.

Obvioulsy trolls from other boards who seek mainly to just attack the Patriots for illogical or personal reasons should be dismissed.
But hopefully there will always be room here for questioning BB/Pioli.....they are not perfect and will make mistakes.

 

[pats1]

Good points from both sides.

The season is NOT over yet...but there are some very concerning signs that have not been present in past seasons...including 3 consecutive Tom Brady sub par performances, lack of depth, and an abundance of very solid teams.

Lack of depth? Where?

The OL and DL is deeper than it ever has been. The RB situation is much better than it was last year and in 2003. The secondary is still quite deep - much different than the days of Antwain Harris and Je'Rod Cherry and Dexter Reid and Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown.

The only two positions where depth is a concern is at WR and LB. Not like the team was incredibly deep at WR in 2003/4 either (See: J.J. Stokes, Dedric Ward, Bethel Johnson, Kevin Kasper).

The only two years in the BB era the team has looked good in September were 2002 and 2004. In 2004, it took a Vanderjagt missed FG and a bye week to keep the team undefeated.

It's no secret this team does its real damage after Thanksgiving - a point BB continuously stresses.

I still maintain that the FO performance over the off season was poor and several key mistakes were made.

Several key mistakes. Where? Explain.

Beioli isn't going to overpay for a player just for the sake of making their "loss/gain" chart look sexy for the media.

They build through the draft. Hence, the 10 draft picks this year and many next year as well.

This obviously is just opnion and it could be proven to be wrong.

However, there should be room on this board for dissenting opinions and the "knee jerk" reflex attacks on such dissenting opinions should be minimized.

Pointing out and discussing issues and concerns for the future and suggesting alternative strategies should be part of the fun of being on this board.

The Patriots are life and death to many around this board.

If you want to talk about knee-jerk reactions, longtime members of this board can help you out. They've been seeing them for years. And nearly every time, the posters with "OMG this season is OVER!!" have been proven wrong.

If everyone just blindly follows the BB/Pioli Kool Aid and never ever questions, then this board will be more like a "mindless" cult following worshipping every move of the FO.

It's not blind, mindless following of Beoli. It's their track record and clear plan that makes heavy criticism of their decisions reserved for dire times.

I hope some of the senior memeber on this board can set the example and welcome reasoned dissenting opinion.

Reasoned dissenting opinion HAS been coming from senior members of the board.

If you haven't noticed, there were multiple moronic threads after this last loss (as there ALWAYS has) - but they came from new posters who, in general, couldn't produce a coherent post for their lives.

Obvioulsy trolls from other boards who seek mainly to just attack the Patriots for illogical or personal reasons should be dismissed.
But hopefully there will always be room here for questioning BB/Pioli.....they are not perfect and will make mistakes.

And now - Week THREE - is not the time to be deciding whether their decisions were wrong in an utter knee-jerk fashion.

 

[jct]

It is important to learn from the past, but not live in the past.
This team will go 10-6 then 11-7 probably.
The money will all be spent.
We will be in the best position capwise for next year.

It was unfortunate that the cap jumped $15 this year, but longterm
everything is fine for us.

People should stop bashing the FO for the past, they did the best they could.
Let's live in the now and make the most of what we have...

 

[aabtec]

It is important to learn from the past, but not live in the past.
This team will go 10-6 then 11-7 probably.
The money will all be spent.
We will be in the best position capwise for next year.

It was unfortunate that the cap jumped $15 this year, but longterm
everything is fine for us.

People should stop bashing the FO for the past, they did the best they could.
Let's live in the now and make the most of what we have...

what makes you think everything will be fine in the future ?

 

[RayClay]

Please name the current Patriot players that met your definition - a quality player that less fiscally responsible team was forced to cut due to cap constraints. When was the last time the Patriot acquired such a player?? I would say Rodney Harrison in 2003. Heath Evans does not cut it for me.




The cap is going to be $109 million next year, a $7 million increase. The $7 million increase is the 3rd highest increase in the salary cap era.

Year Salary Cap (per club) Increase Pct Increase
2007 $109,000,000 $7,000,000 6.86%
2006 $102,000,000 $16,500,000 19.30%
2005 $85,500,000 $4,918,000 6.10%
2004 $80,582,000 $5,575,000 7.43%
2003 $75,007,000 $3,907,000 5.50%
2002 $71,100,000 $3,700,000 5.49%
2001 $67,400,000 $5,228,000 8.41%
2000 $62,172,000 $3,819,000 6.54%
1999 $58,353,000 $5,965,000 11.39%
1998 $52,388,000 $10,938,000 26.39%
1997 $41,450,000 $673,000 1.65%
1996 $40,777,000 $3,677,000 9.91%
1995 $37,100,000 $2,500,000 7.23%
1994 $34,600,000

There has already been talk that the 2010 cap will be $150 million.

Please note that if the 32 NFL teams do not spend 84% of the cap on players this year future caps will be getting a credit making it even easier for teams in the future to stay under the cap.



When will this eventuality occur???
2007??
2008???
2009??
2010???

Let's say that the Patriots do not the Lombardi this year. Why would a veteran hungry for a Lombardi sign with the Patriots and not with the team that did win the Lombardi??


The system worked when the cap was going up by no more than 6 million. There is no evidence that the system will work when the cap will be going up by at least $7 million in the near future. There is no evidence that the system won't work, either. That's why they play the games. As far as I can tell, Ian allows posters to comment throughout the year and not just after the season is over. This board would be rather boring if posters were not allowed to predict/project/comment on how the future will be. IMO, it is within reason to question whether the system will continue to work. Look at the depth of this team and compare it to the depth of the 2003/2004 Patriots. This team is dependent on its star players (Brady, Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Warren, Wilfork, Light) than it has been in the past.



I hope not because I think that the NFL entered a new salary cap era.

It's true the Patriots have not found good lower priced vets as they did in 2001.

Increases in the cap have meant such players were less likely to be available also.

They have been concentrating on the draft and once again will have more and better draft picks than some bottom feeders.

If you look into the future, (anathema to some on this board),you'll see we have many many more young 1st and second rounders coming into their prime in the next five years.

Any way we can use current excess cap dollars to pay ahead on Seymour, Brady etc., will help us to retain some of our future and current star players.

I'm no cap expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

They are always on the lookout and will find some affordable vets in the future IMO. Beisel was a miss, but Seau buys them a little time.

 

[RayClay]

Also, our success has meant copy cats so more teams look for value over flash in free agents IMO.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Also, our success has meant copy cats so more teams look for value over flash in free agents IMO.

But its not like we were the first team to do this though. Steelers have been doing this for years.

 

[mgteich]

In general, we have great depth. However, some of may be overvaluing players so early in the season. Do we really have great depth at LB, CB,S and WR? Will we have when the next defensive back goes on IR? This week, we will be counting on Chad Scott and Poteat as corner and nickle back respectively. Sanders and Hawkins will likely be the dime back and perhaps starting safety if Wilson is out. Anyone who thinks that this is a team in good shape in defensive backfield at Game 3 is kidding themselves. We all know the wide receiver situation, a lot of wishing and hoping that two of the four non-starters will step us as a starter. We might as well us the #5 spot for another position, since our #5 wide receiver is Faulk. Whoever is #5 on the charts is unlikely to see the field as a wide receiver.

The team has made tradeoffs with regard to how to use their cap and draft pick resources. If we as a team believe that free agents are way overvalued (as we always have), then we need to be extended our players with 2 years to go, or after their second year in the case of solidly producing draftees. This would serve to stabilize our roster and use the cap money.

The fact is that we have little use for the extra $10M that we will essentially save from future caps. We are already fine in those years and the cap will be increasing at $7M a year. Perhaps the value will be there in a few years, but unitl then it seems that patriots will simply NOT overpay while the rest of the market pays. BTW, what is the definition of a market?

 

[marcus]

The future is now.

How many chances will a franchise get at being recognized as a dynasty?


Tom Brady in the prime of his career.
3 super bowls in 5 years.
Why not go for it NOW?
A fourth SuperBowl in 6 years would place the Patriots up there with the great teams of all time.

It is good to be fiscally prudent....but at the expense of experienced and strong players?? Is the Patriots FO a "slave to their reputation"? Afraid to pull the trigger for being labelled as the greatest sin of all "overpaying"

All this cap space is not going to help them one iota THIS YEAR when they could have gone for it.



There were moves that could have been made...but for the fear "of overpaying"


Ty Law, Ben Leber, Keyshawn Johnson, keeping AViniaterri and or Branch.
Thay could have done all of these and still been under the cap.

 

[mavfan2390]

Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

13. New England, 2-1
Let's recap: While negotiating his last contract in 2005, Tom Brady left money on the table because the Pats promised to use that extra money for his supporting cast. He ended up agreeing to a six-year extension for $60 million ($14.5 million guaranteed), while Peyton Manning agreed to a $99 million extension ($34.5 million guaranted) just a few months later. Throw in the three Super Bowl rings and Brady's 6-1 lifetime record against Manning and that just seems odd. You have to admit. Also, Drew Brees signed for the same numbers as Brady ($60 million, six years) the following spring. These are the facts.

Now we're three games into the season, the Patriots are still $13 million under the cap, the money can't be rolled over to next season, they let three core guys go (McGinest, Vinatieri and Branch) last winter and didn't sign a single marquee guy, and Brady spent last Sunday trying to get a passing game going with Headlights Caldwell and Troy Brown as his deep threats, which meant Denver just moved everyone up, swallowed their running game and sent the kitchen sink on every down. So, Brady got the crap kicked out of him, they ended up getting shut down at home on national TV, and if that wasn't bad enough, one of the Broncos puked on Brady's left tackle.

Tom Brady
Elsa/Getty Images
It's surprising Tom Brady's body language doesn't include a rude gesture in the direction of owner Robert Kraft.

So here's my question ...

If you're Tom Brady, you're supposed to have GOOD body language while this is happening? Really? That's our verdict here? You wouldn't have been bummed out? If I were Brady, near the end of that debacle Sunday night, I would have called an out pattern toward the Patriots sideline and aimed a pass right at Belichick's head. But that's just me.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060929

 

[AJain]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060929

The SG has point, but so does everyone else. The lines have been drawn in Patriot Nation. Do you side with the Front Office's idea of fiscal reponsibility and maintaining a consistent approach? Or do you make exceptions and adapt to what you have to do for the success of the team in the immediate future?

Personally, I think it will all be excused if we go 11-5 and make a playoff run. If you fall hard to look inconsistent all year, then the naysayers will have a field day.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

Thusfar I have declined to opine on this subject. But man, it gets old. The team had no intention of trading Branch. They tried to bargain with him in good faith. He did not. The large majority of the money that the team has under the cap was going to go to that contract, in the form of a bonus, probably. That would have left a mill or two for emergency signings, etc. They did not have the money under the cap to match the Seahawks offer. Nor is Branch really worth top 5 kinda money. Bottom line: Branch shoved it to the team. Period. Dont get me wrong, the team has shoved it to players in the past. BUT NOT THIS TIME. He Beat Them To It!

That said, just where are you gonna go at this time of year to find a legit top 10 reciever to spend that money on, and if you were so lucky to spend it, just how long would it be now until that guy could assimilate the offense and generate real production on the field? It would be December by the time the guy was up to speed. So now Kraft sits there with this money that he thought was tied up, weeks into the season, and no way to spend it, and with little hope of recovering any value from it if he did. What would you do??? Stop and really think about it for a minute.