It is Absolutely Imperative That We Spend To The Cap This Year

[Mike the Brit]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

What is it about this team, it's ownership & front office that has caused so many to say so much, most of it negative and factually wrong so often?

I have never seen a team that has had (and in my opinion will continue to have) so much success be trashed by so many.

What is going on here and what is behind it all??

Because this team has been successful by any standards (and fantastically so compared with all previous Pats teams) doesn't mean that they are perfect. As annoying as it is for the board to be infested with Chicken Littles, it's just as bad that the first thing you say that is not 100 per cent adulation for the Pats is described as "trashing the team".

One of the joys of rooting for the Pats is that the Head Coach is the first one to say that there are things that the team needs to do better when that is the case. I don't see any reason for fans not to take the same view.

 

[jct]

what makes you think everything will be fine in the future ?

We have the Best Coach in the NFL.
We have the smartest FO.
We draft well.
We have 12 draft picks in 2007.
We have lots of Cap room.
Our OL and DL are young and solid.
What makes you think we will not be fine in the future???

 

[SeanBruschi54]

We have the Best Coach in the NFL.
We have the smartest FO.
We draft well.
We have 12 draft picks in 2007.
We have lots of Cap room.
Our OL and DL are young and solid.
What makes you think we will not be fine in the future???

It doesnt matter about the future with some people though. I for one am completely for the idea of build for the future while keeping a competitive team annually.

But with other people it is win now worry about the future later. You can teach them all the management 101 tricks in the book and it wont bend their vision. Get as many now players as possible and win now every year.

AKA the Yankees Philosophy.

 

[jct]

I think it is possible to be a monday morning QB and question the FO for this years performance, but why should we?
We have a consistant winner here.
We can expect to win our division this year and next.
Nobody is perfect.
When it comes to people the world is unpredictable.
For very little money, we were outbid on our FAs...
I say that is their loss as they now need to get used to loosing...

 

[jct]

It doesnt matter about the future with some people though. I for one am completely for the idea of build for the future while keeping a competitive team annually.

But with other people it is win now worry about the future later. You can teach them all the management 101 tricks in the book and it wont bend their vision. Get as many now players as possible and win now every year.

AKA the Yankees Philosophy.

I completely agree with you.
I wanted our team to have a brilliant offseason.
For reasons beyond our control it didn't happen.
We need to suck it up and accept it.
(OR trade Oakland for Porter 3+4 would do it IMO)

 

[SeanBruschi54]

I completely agree with you.
I wanted our team to have a brilliant offseason.
For reasons beyond our control it didn't happen.
We need to suck it up and accept it.
(OR trade Oakland for Porter 3+4 would do it IMO)

That would probably get it done for Porter at this point. But i wouldnt give up a 7th for that cancer.

He's an arrogant know it all, give the ball to me player. The sad part is he talks trash but he cant back it up. He either sucks or he has a good game. But if he plays poorly you'll surely hear about it.

NOT A BELICHICK SYSTEM PLAYER!!!

 

[mgteich]

I agree, except for the implication that the Yankees philosophy doesn't win in baseball.

It doesnt matter about the future with some people though. I for one am completely for the idea of build for the future while keeping a competitive team annually.

But with other people it is win now worry about the future later. You can teach them all the management 101 tricks in the book and it wont bend their vision. Get as many now players as possible and win now every year.

AKA the Yankees Philosophy.

 

[Patriot Games]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

I am not a cap expert by any stretch. But can somebody please explain to me how the Sports Guy is wrong on the point of not being able to roll the 10 million into next year? I mean, you can't roll that amount over. It's as simple as that. If they spent all 10 million of the space, or they didn't, next year's cap will be the same.

 

[AStack75]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

I assume Simmons was joking about the Bronco puking on Brady's ankle? Was at the game and never saw the TV broadcast.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

These are actually the facts.

Peyton Manning signed his contract in March, 2004. He was a franchise tag player at the time with a $18 million cap hit. His deal save the Colts close to $10 million on the 2004 cap. Brady signed his extension in May, 2005. He had two years left on his deal. Brady got a $14.5 million signing bonus in 2005 AND a $12 million option bonus in 2006. Brady's deal save the Pats $1.8 million on the 2005 and 2006 caps. Brees who was an UFA at the time of his deal got a $8 million signing bonus and has a $12 million option bonus due
him in 2007. Brees' 2007 cap number is $6.4 million if the Saints pick up the option. It is $6.4 million if the Saints do not pick up the option. Opinions - Brees is working on an one-year deal. If the Saints like what they see, they will pick up the option. Should Brady have received the same bonus amount as Manning when Brady had two years left on the deal??I do not think so. Brady was able to pass on his injury risk to the Patriots two years early.

Fact - Manning's deal got him close to $46 million in the first 3 years of
the deal. Brady - $37.5 million. Brees - $29.5 million.

 

[dhamz]

I agree, except for the implication that the Yankees philosophy doesn't win in baseball.

It works exceptionally well in baseball because of the lack of a salary cap.

The NFL doesn't have a structure where one team (NY) can spend $250 million on salary and luxry tax while another (FLA) spends $15 million.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Geez Miguel. You're letting the facts get in the way of a good
argument. I'm so sick of all the whining about the cap. Is it a
stretch to believe our front office? They wanted to sign Law
and Branch. Couldn't get it done. No conspiracy theory. Everyone
(myself included) is disappointed we didn't keep Branch. But, he
is the one who was under contract. Put the team in a tough spot
by holding out. Using his leverage. Pats made a good trade. Got
a first for him. This team was 5-5 in 01 before getting hot. Pats
were 2-2 in 03 before putting it together. No reason to jump ship
at this point.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Geez Miguel. You're letting the facts get in the way of a good
argument. I'm so sick of all the whining about the cap. Is it a
stretch to believe our front office? They wanted to sign Law
and Branch. Couldn't get it done. No conspiracy theory. Everyone
(myself included) is disappointed we didn't keep Branch. But, he
is the one who was under contract. Put the team in a tough spot
by holding out. Using his leverage. Pats made a good trade. Got
a first for him. This team was 5-5 in 01 before getting hot. Pats
were 2-2 in 03 before putting it together. No reason to jump ship
at this point.

Risk is being "bought and sold" in the background of these deals (hence "first three years" and "Guaranteed money" etc. being the buzzwords they are.) Kudos to Miguel for picking out an example that's easy to see the role of risk versus dollars. It's usually occluded from a fan POV because we like to think "I like this guy more than that guy," etc., but they come not only with stat lines, but with unique risk profiles. The same can be said about a team's offer from the POV of a player - everything from "how does that rookie rb threaten my playing time" to "what do you mean I get a big payday in year 5???" What are their REAL plans for me...?) Again thanks for bringing it to the fore.

That said, my simple, kool-aid drinking mind is most happy to groove right along with PatsfaninPa. Yeah, I think Kraft/BB/SP have done this a time or two, and I am okay with seeing their return on investment before judging their handling of the new CBA. I do see it as likely that, if not in 06, then in 07, there'll be a rash of "The Patriots weren't dead, they were being smart! D'OH!" stories. I'm just going by history here. I don't know how this will come about. It just seems it always does.

I'm onboard until we miss the playoffs, guys. Maybe even after that, unless the errors are so eggregious even I can understand them. Not that I don't want to learn cap biz etc.... I just don't feel qualified to toss tomatoes at these guys, fire Belichick, bench Brady, chain Kraft to a rock and let a vulture peck out his liver, etc.

PFnV

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

I am not a cap expert by any stretch. But can somebody please explain to me how the Sports Guy is wrong on the point of not being able to roll the 10 million into next year? I mean, you can't roll that amount over. It's as simple as that. If they spent all 10 million of the space, or they didn't, next year's cap will be the same.

There are cap tricks like converting option bonuses into roster bonuses (rather than the cap hit being being stretched throughout the contract it all counts against this year) and incentives (depending on the type of incentive it counts against the cap this year, and if it isn't reached it gets credited to next year's). Those are two I know of, there might be more.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Bill Simmons Views on His Pats....

There are cap tricks like converting option bonuses into roster bonuses (rather than the cap hit being being stretched throughout the contract it all counts against this year)

A roster bonus paid during the regular season is treated like a signing bonus.