Is Cassel now worth a 1st round pick?

[JoeSixPat]

I have no idea why he wouldn't.


He'd get more than $14M guaranteed when combining the signing bonus, first year salary and the next couple of years' salaries in which he's virtually uncutable due to signing bonus acceleration. He wouldn't get $14M per year but he'd get a lot more than $14M guaranteed.

OK - so I think everyone agrees that the franchise tag salary once offered, is immediately signed, and the Patriots have no opportunity to withdraw it - if indeed Cassel is smart and logical and doesn't want to give the Patriots multiple weeks or months to assess Brady's health before he decides whether he wants a minimum of $14 million to play football.

I'm a little foggy on what happens once he gets traded. I'm assuming that the provision preventing players from re-doing a contract doesn't apply to a franchise tag player once they get signed... and that Cassel would re-do a deal worth in excess of $14 million guranteed - with the potential to earn much more in incentives.

That might be a better deal than taking a chance with a rookie, but it's still not something a NFL team would enter into lightly - and its not like 31 NFL teams will be fighting over him.

The bottom line - before the Pats can even entertain the notion of trading Cassel for ANYTHING they need to be zen with the very real possibility that he stays here for $14 million.

The only way I see that happening is if Brady's knee is indeed in questionable shape - in which case, you tag Cassel, see what another year brings and given the fact that you're already in your worst case scenario with Brady's long term health in question, you're preparing yourself to make a very tough decisionin the 2009 offseason about what to again do about Cassel.

 

[BelichickFan]

The bottom line - before the Pats can even entertain the notion of trading Cassel for ANYTHING they need to be zen with the very real possibility that he stays here for $14 million.

Agreed but Pioli is adept at using the phone/blackberry. I think he'll have a pretty good idea of where things stand before the tag.

 

[PatsFan2]

No, lets have this discussion after next weeks game against the Steelers. If Cassell has a very good game against them, he's worth at least a #1. A team which is a qb away from greatness would give up a #1. Teams which need/want a qb ( the Bears, 49er's, and Lions, and of course the Bucs).

You forgot the Vikings.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Agreed but Pioli is adept at using the phone/blackberry. I think he'll have a pretty good idea of where things stand before the tag.

He'd better hope he can trust the team he's thinking of trading with - and better hope that the team and Cassel have their deal worked out before the franchise tag is applied...

Because once the tag is applied, the team he's thinking of working a trade with now winds up having the Patriots in a much more awkward situation if they're not too keen to keep Cassel and his $14 million salary.

Maybe they change their mind about their offer to the Pats, knowing the Patriots no longer hold all the cards. Maybe Cassel's price goes up and as a result the trade value goes down.... the Patriots might be sellers with an incentive if they truly aren't prepared to hold onto Cassel for another season at $14 million.

As I said earlier, it's a slightly more complicated scenario then answering the question of whether Cassel is worth a 1st round pick.

Given all the above, much depends on having MULTIPLE teams seriously interested in Cassel, and seeing at least enough of a bidding war not to have the Patriots left holding Cassel.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK - so I think everyone agrees that the franchise tag salary once offered, is immediately signed, and the Patriots have no opportunity to withdraw it - if indeed Cassel is smart and logical and doesn't want to give the Patriots multiple weeks or months to assess Brady's health before he decides whether he wants a minimum of $14 million to play football.

I'm a little foggy on what happens once he gets traded. I'm assuming that the provision preventing players from re-doing a contract doesn't apply to a franchise tag player once they get signed... and that Cassel would re-do a deal worth in excess of $14 million guranteed - with the potential to earn much more in incentives.

That might be a better deal than taking a chance with a rookie, but it's still not something a NFL team would enter into lightly - and its not like 31 NFL teams will be fighting over him.

The bottom line - before the Pats can even entertain the notion of trading Cassel for ANYTHING they need to be zen with the very real possibility that he stays here for $14 million.

The only way I see that happening is if Brady's knee is indeed in questionable shape - in which case, you tag Cassel, see what another year brings and given the fact that you're already in your worst case scenario with Brady's long term health in question, you're preparing yourself to make a very tough decisionin the 2009 offseason about what to again do about Cassel.

Kansas City Chiefs Franchise Tag Jared Allen - Carl Peterson, NFL

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This really isn't rocket science.

 

[jetsfanri]

First, congrats on this even being an issue...Cassel is really playing far beyond what anyone expected.

If the Pats tag him, I bet they will own him for the year...especially if the ask is a first round pick. I think with the success of Ryan and Flacco, teams will not be anxious to part with multiple picks, especially to NE. I also think that a lot of teams will simply not do business with the Pats...for a variety of reasons.

With Brady coming back, you should be more worried about losing your OC...chances are he will get some serious HC consideration.

 

[billdog3484]

somebody is going to want cassel, and bad. we might even be able to get more than just a first rounder

 

[PatsFan2]

First, congrats on this even being an issue...Cassel is really playing far beyond what anyone expected.

If the Pats tag him, I bet they will own him for the year...especially if the ask is a first round pick. I think with the success of Ryan and Flacco, teams will not be anxious to part with multiple picks, especially to NE. I also think that a lot of teams will simply not do business with the Pats...for a variety of reasons.

With Brady coming back, you should be more worried about losing your OC...chances are he will get some serious HC consideration.

Green with Envy? wait until we catch you guys in the Playoffs.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Kansas City Chiefs Franchise Tag Jared Allen - Carl Peterson, NFL

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This really isn't rocket science.

Ditto John Abraham in 2006 - Mangini started to rebuild his defense with the #1 he got from Atlanta for a player who didn't want to play in NY ever again and whom he couldn't afford to keep if he did...

This discussion (I started weeks ago...) is proof reading truly is a lost art.

The why these players don't sign the tag question has already been answered too. The tag is paid in 17 installments of salary beginning in September 2009. Signing bonus money is paid up front in cold cash... So Matt's choices would be sign the tag to sit on the bench for a year while his stock falls and he becomes Billy Volek for $800K+ a week per beginning in September or cooperate with a tag and trade deal that pays you $14M+ in signing bonus money up front in March with the guarantee of another $6-10M+ guaranteed over the next 3 years to be a starter signed to a 6 year $60M+/- deal...

Rocket science indeed...

 

[Fencer]

How much is Cassell worth to the Pats if he DOES stay next year? Perhaps $3-4 million, given that there will be some uncertainty remaining about Brady's health.

So a franchise number is a big gamble.

Conversely, he might be worth $8 million or more to his new employer -- which still leaves him overpaid by an amount of money worth a significant amount in picks.

Cassell has more leverage here than the Pats. The Pats may get something, but it most likely WON'T be a goldmine of picks.

 

[BRiZ]

a 1st round pick for Cassel is rediculous, hes worth a 3rd at best. But if some team wants to give up a 1st for him lol we'll take it. Speaking of 1st's Detroit has two 1st round picks this draft, an extra from Dallas for Roy Williams. They got the #1 pick currently and their one from Dallas is hovering around the 20's....that particular pick would be perfect one to trade for Cassel. Detroit is a stupid franchise so maybe its a possibility.

Imagine two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks this draft...

 

[jetsfanri]

Green with Envy? wait until we catch you guys in the Playoffs.

Not sure what you are saying...I'm not really envious of what will be a complicated situation for the Pats.

As for the Playoffs...careful what you wish for.

 

[BelichickFan]

I still don't buy the risk argument, as long as they can trade him for something - anything - they can get rid of the contract. A team needing a QB would almost certainly trade a low pick in 2010 for him and that gets him off our books just as a #1 in 2009 would. Let's see how he does next week against Pittsburgh though - that could change things.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

a 1st round pick for Cassel is rediculous, hes worth a 3rd at best. But if some team wants to give up a 1st for him lol we'll take it. Speaking of 1st's Detroit has two 1st round picks this draft, an extra from Dallas for Roy Williams. They got the #1 pick currently and their one from Dallas is hovering around the 20's....that particular pick would be perfect one to trade for Cassel. Detroit is a stupid franchise so maybe its a possibility.

Imagine two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks this draft...

That would be a dream come true and would make up for the lost pick last year.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

a 1st round pick for Cassel is rediculous, hes worth a 3rd at best. But if some team wants to give up a 1st for him lol we'll take it. Speaking of 1st's Detroit has two 1st round picks this draft, an extra from Dallas for Roy Williams. They got the #1 pick currently and their one from Dallas is hovering around the 20's....that particular pick would be perfect one to trade for Cassel. Detroit is a stupid franchise so maybe its a possibility.

Imagine two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks this draft...

detroit will likely have the 33rd pick or so.

I'd take that in a heartbeat and anything higher is gravy.

we need as many impact defensive starters as possible.

if we didn't get shafted we'd likely have a starting cb already.

but we also need a legit passrusher

 

[BelichickFan]

detroit will likely have the 33rd pick or so.

I'd take that in a heartbeat and anything higher is gravy.

Agreed. I just want something more than a comp pick which would be the end of the third at best and could be nothing if we sign some FA. A #2 would work for me, even a 2010 #2. But I still say Cassel is worth a #1 when you look at what rookie QB make and how many are busts that go in the top five.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Not sure what you are saying...I'm not really envious of what will be a complicated situation for the Pats.

As for the Playoffs...careful what you wish for.

Careful what you wish for? Ha ha,that is always a cute saying.

Favre was on fire that game, Gaff dropped a clear TD, but whatever, all that doesn't matter, the records are what they are.

NE is a good team and I like their chances against, like i said in previous posts, against any team in this league. Our problem is our secondary. Farve is signed and has beat NE. Imagine if you will them playing again. You have to believe the pressure is square on the Jets in that game.

And NE is going to be physical and precise. We are supposed to be DOA since KC, and that so far is not the case.

I just checked and, yup, this is what I am wishing 4. Last time I checked there are 16 games in the regular season. How about we have this discussion then cause it's all speculative until then.

Today Cassel looked fantastic. I am excited about our team and about his future. Whoever thought with Tom going down there would be so much excitement around here.

It will be a great 5 upcoming weeks...

 

[spacecrime]

Kansas City Chiefs Franchise Tag Jared Allen - Carl Peterson, NFL

Chiefs trade Jared Allen to Minnesota: | SportsFilter

This really isn't rocket science.

It's not, but you still manage not to get it.

"Hey, I found out that of the last 20,000 free agents, one was franchised and traded for a first round pick. It must be easy to do."

You just gotta stop and think there must be a reason teams don't franchise and trade guys all the time. And it is because it is very hard to do, not easy.

And if the franchisee won't sign a deal with the trade team, the deal just isn't going to happen.

Franchise tags work when you want to play the player. Players hate the franchise tag, and you cannot franchise and trade unless the player agrees to a deal with the trading team. People here keep saying to trade Cassel to the highest bidder. Isn't anyone listening? Cassel is a FA. YOu think any team in their right mind is going to give a first rond pick and $15 mil to a player for ONE YEAR. Unless Cassel agrees with the trade it just ain't happening.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Agreed. I just want something more than a comp pick which would be the end of the third at best and could be nothing if we sign some FA. A #2 would work for me, even a 2010 #2. But I still say Cassel is worth a #1 when you look at what rookie QB make and how many are busts that go in the top five.

agreed. he's proven that he can put up the numbers. I do think we need 4 more games of production in the 250-300 yard range to get max value, but value is what someone gives you. Minny would be foolish not to make a run at him or even detroit.

after watching asante leave for nothing I won't like seeing cassel leave for nothing if he does.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He'd better hope he can trust the team he's thinking of trading with - and better hope that the team and Cassel have their deal worked out before the franchise tag is applied...

Because once the tag is applied, the team he's thinking of working a trade with now winds up having the Patriots in a much more awkward situation if they're not too keen to keep Cassel and his $14 million salary.

Maybe they change their mind about their offer to the Pats, knowing the Patriots no longer hold all the cards. Maybe Cassel's price goes up and as a result the trade value goes down.... the Patriots might be sellers with an incentive if they truly aren't prepared to hold onto Cassel for another season at $14 million.

As I said earlier, it's a slightly more complicated scenario then answering the question of whether Cassel is worth a 1st round pick.

Given all the above, much depends on having MULTIPLE teams seriously interested in Cassel, and seeing at least enough of a bidding war not to have the Patriots left holding Cassel.

It doesn't happen that way Joe, nor is it remotely nefarious. Once tagged Cassel and his agent are free to talk to any of the other 31 teams. If one wants him at less than the tag price they approach NE about a trade. Of course then NE begins to assess overall interest and pehaps discuss better offers which they could accept or just use as leverage against the team who first wanted Matt and with whom he was talking contract...He won't sign the tag because he wants to be a starter. And he knows worst case scenario they can't get a deal done and rescind the tag which makes him a FA...which is what he would have been anyway. And in this cap flush environment hitting the market in April isn't the detriment it used to be.