Is Cassel now worth a 1st round pick?

[slash83]

you are correct, they swapped 1st rounders. Thats besides the point though. Matt Schaub had started 2 GAMES in his CAREER before the trade. Matt Cassel has the same amount of 400+ yards games that Schaub had started in at the time of his trade. My point is, that if Schaub, being so unproven, can get 2 2nd round picks, then I dont see how Cassel, having proved so much, doesnt get anything less than a 1st rounder and change

Well said man, there has to be a out there willing to give up a 1st rounder for him, the bigger problem IMO is what kind of payday Cassels going to be asking for.

 

[BelichickFan]

The point is that whether he's worth a 1st round pick is one small portion of the equation.

You're getting too bogged down in the details for me. IMO the only question is :

"Do the Patriots feel like it's almost a lock they can trade a Franchised Cassel for something, anything, to free up the $14M if necessary."

As long as they can trade him for a 2012 #7 if necessary to get rid of the one year $14M contract if Cassel signs it then it's all good from there. Whether a team moves the offer to a #3, #2, #1, whatever, there is no risk as long as we can move him for something. I don't understand the risk argument unless he tanks the rest of the way. The question wouldn't be CAN we trade him but WHAT would we trade him for. If his play dips so that the question becomes CAN we trade him then I understand the risk question. But right who, the CAN question is moot and the WHAT question is pertinent.

 

[moosekill]

The problem is Cassel will not only cost a team the draft picks, he will also be on the books for well lets say $14 million. It makes him less valuable then if he were only signed for $5 million.

 

[BelichickFan]

the bigger problem IMO is what kind of payday Cassels going to be asking for.

That's not a big problem for me, if he's asking for huge money that means he's still playing well and a team will still want him. The cause and effect of a huge contract plays in our favor.

 

[apple strudel]

My point is, that if Schaub, being so unproven, can get 2 2nd round picks, then I dont see how Cassel, having proved so much, doesnt get anything less than a 1st rounder and change

Depends entirely on the market. Not all off-seasons are created equal.

 

[BelichickFan]

The problem is Cassel will not only cost a team the draft picks, he will also be on the books for well lets say $14 million. It makes him less valuable then if he were only signed for $5 million.

Not a problem, if you draft a top QB you have to move up in the draft and pay him just as much. Again, the cause of the big payday is he would have continued excellent play and the effect is value to a team wanting him.

 

[Boston Jay]

Honestly I'm going to be a Matt Cassel fan for life, no matter what happens or where he goes (even if it's to the Jets).

Dear Lord no.

 

[JoeSixPat]

schaub was a restricted free agent i believe. but however, pats did the same thing with tebucky jones. they franchised him and shipped him off to New Orleans for a 2nd rounder. NFLPA does not allow teams to franchise players who do not intend to sign them. However, pats can "attempt" to sign Cassel and come back and say they tried but couldn't come to an agreement, and are "forced" to trade him.

When teams - even the Patriots - misuse the Franchise Cap, I don't think its good for the team, or to football in general, or fair to the player.

I think with Brady's health being questionable, using the tag on Cassel is justifiable - and if someone makes them an offer that has the Patriots decide its worth the risk to go into the season without him so be it

I'm sure the Patriots front office will be doing their best to keep word of Brady's health as secret as possible.

None of that changes the fact that Schaub and Cassel's situations have some pretty significant differences in the leverage that the Patriots hold, the leverage that Cassel holds, and the leverage that an unnamed team holds in calling our bluff on whether we're prepared to pay $14 million for a season, complicated by the fact that we'd be looking for them to take on an expensive salary and give up a 1st round pick minimum.

As I said - it's more complicated than answering "yes" to the question of whether he's worth a first round pick.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

Depends entirely on the market. Not all off-seasons are created equal.

granted, but this isn't exactly a QB-heavy draft. schaub was traded the same year that Brady Quinn, Trent Edwards, Drew Stanton, etc. came out. Depending on which junior's come out, i would say you are not going to get too many QB's better than Cassel in this draft. and that is not factoring in that you have to dish out HUGE money for unproven QB's as opposed to throwing money at a proven, yet still young cassel. Lets all remember that Cassel, being 26, has more football in him than a normal 26 year old because he has been sitting on his ass since he was 18.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

The problem is Cassel will not only cost a team the draft picks, he will also be on the books for well lets say $14 million. It makes him less valuable then if he were only signed for $5 million.

any team that aquired cassel wouldn't take the franchise cap number. they would undoubtedly sign him long term.

 

[BelichickFan]

Depending on which junior's come out, i would say you are not going to get too many QB's better than Cassel in this draft.

With the juniors it's a weak QB draft. Without them it's horrible.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I don't see the Pats franchising him. If they do, and you don't find a trade partner they'd be stuck paying him millions to sit on the bench.

I view this situation as akin to Montana and Young while at San Fran. 2 starting QBs on a team, when conventional wisdom shouted "we only really need one!".

I ask, only somewhat rhetorically, how did that situation turn out? Was there any benefit for the Niners to actually pursue that particular strategy?

These are the kinds of questions that, in my opinion, should really be the ones to be asked.

Just my 2¢....

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's only the case if Cassel signs the tender offer which if he continues to play like this is doubtful because he can get more on the open market. Cassel can still be cut down the road in the offseason if he doesn't sign the tender offer.

As a not-so-minor point, they can't "cut" him, but they can withdraw the tender (same net result--he's a UFA).

 

[Rob0729]

As a not-so-minor point, they can't "cut" him, but they can withdraw the tender (same net result--he's a UFA).

Sorry, wrong choice of words, but it was what I meant.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

And now that I think of it, wasn't it only a few years ago when the re-signing of Jarvis Green caused so much consternation on this board? A reserve lineman, getting very, very close to a starters salary? How were the Pats going to reconcile this?

If memory serves me correctly, the reconciled it very well, thank you.

I get the impression they'll reconcile this one just as well, too.

 

[billdog3484]

hes playing so well hes not worth trading at all

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

And now that I think of it, wasn't it only a few years ago when the re-signing of Jarvis Green caused so much consternation on this board? A reserve lineman, getting very, very close to a starters salary? How were the Pats going to reconcile this?

If memory serves me correctly, the reconciled it very well, thank you.

I get the impression they'll reconcile this one just as well, too.

yea, but the difference between what green makes and what cassel is going to make is about 6-7 million

 

[JoeSixPat]

As a not-so-minor point, they can't "cut" him, but they can withdraw the tender (same net result--he's a UFA).

I'm trying to understand why Cassel wouldn't sign a $14 million tender as soon as it's on the table?

That wouldn't prevent him from being traded. It would just gurantee $14 million to Cassel.

Why would he give the Patriots weeks and months to decide whether to withdraw it? Once he signs it, the money is his, right?

And is he going to get $14 million guaranteed from another team? Schuab got $7 million, right? ESPN - Schaub's new deal with Texans finalizes trade - NFL

So you franchise Cassel and you're on the hook for $14 million whether you cut him or trade him.

You'd better be sure you have a solid trading partner - and a trading partner who won't try to change the terms of the deal once the franchise tag is made and Cassel signs the tender (the only way he doesn't sign is if someone is prepared to offer more than $14 million and he knows it, right?) because they know they've got the Patriots in an awkward situation of not wanting to pay $14 million.

I guess the alternative is that Cassel DOES believe he can get more than $14 million guranteed and decides that he's going to not sign the tender, and sit out to force a trade. But I don't think he starts losing money until the first game of the season, no?

 

[unoriginal]

yea, but the difference between what green makes and what cassel is going to make is about 6-7 million

The difference between the salary cap of 2005 and 2009 will be approximately $40 million.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm trying to understand why Cassel wouldn't sign a $14 million tender as soon as it's on the table?

I have no idea why he wouldn't.

And is he going to get $14 million guaranteed from another team? Schuab got $7 million, right? ESPN - Schaub's new deal with Texans finalizes trade - NFL

He'd get more than $14M guaranteed when combining the signing bonus, first year salary and the next couple of years' salaries in which he's virtually uncutable due to signing bonus acceleration. He wouldn't get $14M per year but he'd get a lot more than $14M guaranteed.