Is Cassel now worth a 1st round pick?

[BelichickFan]

That 23 million is

1.)before the Pats sign players (usually their PS players) to future contracts.
2.) before the Pats tender their ERFAs and RFAs
3.) before the 2009 salaries of several Patriots are increased because of reached escalators.
4.) some Patriots UFAs (most likely Paxton and Izzo) are resigned
5.) some Patriots signed for the 2009 season (most likely Tedy, Faulk, Neal, Wilfork, Seymour, Green, and Vrabel) will redo their deals or maybe even resign
6.) the LTBE/NLTBE calculation takes place
7.) before the Top 51 rule kicks in for the 2009 season

I didn't mean to suggest we're flowing in cap money but I think we can get all that done for $9M given that we can make some moves (as you suggest in #5) to free up some money. Then we'd have $14M once Cassel is traded.

I think we'd move him quickly to free up the money even if we got less in draft picks. But I simply don't believe a businessman like Kraft and football guys like Belichick and Pioli will let him walk for a comp pick that would be no pick if we signed some UFA ourselves.

 

[Miguel]

Izzo and Paxton are going to get veteran minimum deals though.

Paxton did not get a vet min deal in 2008. Even he does in 2009, his cap number would be around $500 so Izzo and he would take up a million in cap space before the Top 51 rule is factored in.

Peerless Price was traded quickly from Buffalo.

I had stopped looking at when franchise players were traded after the 2004 season

I don't know if it is possible to swing, but I think it is worth a try if the Pats think they can trade him quickly and get a lot for him. They may be able to get cap room from converting some players' salaries into bonuses, but that is your area of expertise.

I am not saying that it is not possible to swing. I am just pointing that it may not be easy as some are saying.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Back to back 400 yard, 3 TD games prove that Cassel has really come into his own. If Schaub could get 2 2nd rounders, surely Cassel has elevated himself to being worthy of somebody's 1st now?

There's similarities and very significant differences between Schaub's situation, as I'm sure you know.

The question is not whether Cassel's worth a 1st round pick. He may be to the right team.

But that's not what Cassel will cost.

He'll cost a big contract as well - and if we think we're going to retain his rights, we need to ask whether he's worth

1.) A First Round Pick
2.) A Lucrative Contract
3.) The risk of franchising him and
a) Having to keep him for a FULL SEASON at $14 million because teams decided he wasn't worth a a First Round Pick and a Lucrative Contract and/or
b) Having Cassel sit out the season because we franchised him, thereby negating the benfit of franchising him in the first place to either hold him until Brady was proven healthy or the value we'd gain in trading him.

As you can see it's a far more complicated "question" than asking if he's worth a 1st round pick.

 

[PittPatriot]

No, lets have this discussion after next weeks game against the Steelers. If Cassell has a very good game against them, he's worth at least a #1. A team which is a qb away from greatness would give up a #1. Teams which need/want a qb ( the Bears, 49er's, and Lions, and of course the Bucs).

Wow. I'd be happy with 18/28, 180yds, 1TD and 1INT against that Steeler defense. Patriots vs. Steelers is always a close game (last year being an exception) and I don't think is going for 400 and 3 next week...

 

[BelichickFan]

1.) A First Round Pick
2.) A Lucrative Contract
3.) The risk of franchising him and
a) Having to keep him for a FULL SEASON at $14 million because teams decided he wasn't worth a a First Round Pick and a Lucrative Contract and/or
b) Having Cassel sit out the season because we franchised him, thereby negating the benfit of franchising him in the first place to either hold him until Brady was proven healthy or the value we'd gain in trading him.

As you can see it's a far more complicated "question" than asking if he's worth a 1st round pick.

#1 and #2 are what determine his value to another team and they apply to a draftee also; would you take Matt Cassel or Mathew Stafford right now ? And if you don't get Stafford there's Sanchez or maybe Bradford. No guarantee any of them come out and I'd take Cassel over any of them right now. It's not a strong QB year and Stafford has likely slipped some.

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[tobias funke]

Honestly I'm going to be a Matt Cassel fan for life, no matter what happens or where he goes (even if it's to the Jets).

What he did for this team this season is nothing short of astonishing. That he did it after taking so much **** in the media and from the fans makes it even better.

I'm sure another team is salivating right now and it would be nice for the pats to get value for Matt but if it doesn't happen it will be their own fault for not extending him earlier.

 

[BelichickFan]

Honestly I'm going to be a Matt Cassel fan for life, no matter what happens or where he goes (even if it's to the Jets).

What he did for this team this season is nothing short of astonishing. That he did it after taking so much **** in the media and from the fans makes it even better.

Yep, he bailed us out. No Brady, mediocre defense, all our RB hurt and we're 7-4. If he leaves for nothing I'll always root for him but I still want something for him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep, he bailed us out. No Brady, mediocre defense, all our RB hurt and we're 7-4. If he leaves for nothing I'll always root for him but I still want something for him.

Well said.







Unless he goes to the Jets. Then he's a jerk.

 

[BelichickFan]

Unless he goes to the Jets. Then he's a jerk.

I think Favre will be back, the Jest won't be an issue. Teams like Detroit, Minnesota and the like will. The way the offense has done I could see McDaniels going to one of those teams as HC and taking Cassel with him. What our offense is doing has to be increasing McDaniels' stock - also, Mangina's unfortunate resurgence does too being a young coach from the Belichick tree.

 

[spacecrime]

And for the 7,001 time he can be Franchised and traded. Jeez.

For the 7002 time, not unless he agrees to be traded.

How many top FA can you name that have been franchised and traded for a first round pick?

I can think of ONE in the last 10 years. Peerless Price.

 

[stcjones]

let's have this discussion after the season.

Well I think this is the most realistic and accurate answer.....we have 5 games left.....lets see how it all goes from here.....I think he will get some big cash thrown at him at the end of the year IF his efforts help this team get into the playoffs......If not, his value may go down
...we shall see

 

[spacecrime]

think what you want, but people never thought BB would trade bledsoe to a divisional opponent.

Bledsoe wasn't a FA.

 

[JoeSixPat]

#1 and #2 are what determine his value to another team and they apply to a draftee also; would you take Matt Cassel or Mathew Stafford right now ? And if you don't get Stafford there's Sanchez or maybe Bradford. No guarantee any of them come out and I'd take Cassel over any of them right now. It's not a strong QB year and Stafford has likely slipped some.

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The point is that whether he's worth a 1st round pick is one small portion of the equation.

You can answer "yes" to that question and getting as far as the Patriots franchising him and trading him for that first round pick requires quite a few other steps.

Was Schaub a free agent? or a restricted free agent?

Big difference right there, no? That's a 1 year $2.3 mil qualifying offer that the Falcons were taking a risk on having to hold onto. I think $14 million is a different beast to hold onto his rights if they truly don't want or need him. If they DO need him for one more season that's a different story - and we're right back where we are now at the end of next season.

Also, I don't think Atlanta actually got a 1st round pick for Schuab did they? I think they swaped 1st round picks, and then swapped some others in future drafts, no?

So if you really want to compare Cassel with Schuab go ahead - but there's a lot of significant differences, including the fact that Houston didn't really give up a 1st round pick.

What Cassel will actually cost in terms of guranteed money, but the $7 million guaranteed that Schuab got doesn't sound all that far off to me either.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

I don't see any way that he isn't. It's a weak QB draft anyway and #1 QB picks are 50-50 at best. If you're gonna pay big money and #1 for a QB why not do it for one that has proven he can play. Yeah he has Moss and Welker but he's making great throws on the run, Cassel can flat out play.

agreed. If Matt Schaub, having started 2 games in his career, can get a 1st round pick, and 2 2nd round picks, then Cassel is worth AT LEAST a 1st rounder and a 3rd/4th rounder.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Bledsoe wasn't a FA.

and what would make you think he was. please show me my statement that he was.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

well let me ask you this then........ does Cassel have a legit shot for the Pro Bowl? at what point does it get voted on? what if he has 4 more games like this?

now I've really jumped to conclusions and went overboard.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

The point is that whether he's worth a 1st round pick is one small portion of the equation.

You can answer "yes" to that question and getting as far as the Patriots franchising him and trading him for that first round pick requires quite a few other steps.

Was Schaub a free agent? or a restricted free agent?

Big difference right there, no? That's a 1 year $2.3 mil qualifying offer that the Falcons were taking a risk on having to hold onto. I think $14 million is a different beast to hold onto his rights if they truly don't want or need him. If they DO need him for one more season that's a different story - and we're right back where we are now at the end of next season.

schaub was a restricted free agent i believe. but however, pats did the same thing with tebucky jones. they franchised him and shipped him off to New Orleans for a 2nd rounder. NFLPA does not allow teams to franchise players who do not intend to sign them. However, pats can "attempt" to sign Cassel and come back and say they tried but couldn't come to an agreement, and are "forced" to trade him.

 

[Deus Irae]

well let me ask you this then........ does Cassel have a legit shot for the Pro Bowl? at what point does it get voted on? what if he has 4 more games like this?

now I've really jumped to conclusions and went overboard.

Manning and Favre have got to be looked at as all but locked in.

 

[BelichickFan]

agreed. If Matt Schaub, having started 2 games in his career, can get a 1st round pick, and 2 2nd round picks, then Cassel is worth AT LEAST a 1st rounder and a 3rd/4th rounder.

Schaub was two #2s and a small move up in round one, not a #1 outright.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

The point is that whether he's worth a 1st round pick is one small portion of the equation.

You can answer "yes" to that question and getting as far as the Patriots franchising him and trading him for that first round pick requires quite a few other steps.

Was Schaub a free agent? or a restricted free agent?

Big difference right there, no? That's a 1 year $2.3 mil qualifying offer that the Falcons were taking a risk on having to hold onto. I think $14 million is a different beast to hold onto his rights if they truly don't want or need him. If they DO need him for one more season that's a different story - and we're right back where we are now at the end of next season.

Also, I don't think Atlanta actually got a 1st round pick for Schuab did they? I think they swaped 1st round picks, and then swapped some others in future drafts, no?

So if you really want to compare Cassel with Schuab go ahead - but there's a lot of significant differences, including the fact that Houston didn't really give up a 1st round pick.

What Cassel will actually cost in terms of guranteed money, but the $7 million guaranteed that Schuab got doesn't sound all that far off to me either.

you are correct, they swapped 1st rounders. Thats besides the point though. Matt Schaub had started 2 GAMES in his CAREER before the trade. Matt Cassel has the same amount of 400+ yards games that Schaub had started in at the time of his trade. My point is, that if Schaub, being so unproven, can get 2 2nd round picks, then I dont see how Cassel, having proved so much, doesnt get anything less than a 1st rounder and change