I have to ask, why is everyone so high on Brooks Reed?

[Water Boy]

Nice chart.

I agree. Kerrigan's 30 sacks are eye-popping. I'm a little skeptical about the QBH statistics. Anyone know what qualifies as a QBH? Is it simply a judgment call by the statistician?

 

[bucky]

Also posted this in the "DE Priority" thread. Just a listing of DE/OLB prospect college production stats, sorted by TT. The (number) indicates seasons as a "starter". QBH = hurries.

Kerrigan (3) ----- 191 TT - 54 TFL - 30.6 sk -- 2 QBH -- 7 PD - 13 FF
Ayers (3) ------- 181 TT - 27 TFL - 13.0 sk -- 0 QBH - 10 PD -- 5 FF
Clayborn (3) ---- 172 TT - 35 TFL - 17.0 sk - 17 QBH -- 7 PD -- 6 FF
Cunningham (3) - 147 TT - 32 TFL - 17.5 sk - 11 QBH -- 7 PD -- 5 FF
Sheard (3) ------ 139 TT - 35 TFL - 19.5 sk - 38 QBH - 14 PD -- 5 FF
Romeus (3)* ---- 135 TT - 38 TFL - 19.5 sk - 17 QBH - 11 PD -- 4 FF
Reed (3) -------- 107 TT - 24 TFL - 16.5 sk -- 1 QBH -- 5 PD -- 5 FF
-
Acho (2) -------- 131 TT - 31 TFL - 18.0 sk - 20 QBH -- 6 PD -- 8 FF
Karl Klug (2) ----- 121 TT - 26 TFL -- 9.5 sk -- 9 QBH -- 8 PD -- 3 FF
Smith (2) -------- 112 TT - 29 TFL - 16.0 sk -- 1 QBH -- 7 PD -- 2 FF
Houston (2) ------ 105 TT - 34 TFL - 18.5 sk -- 3 QBH -- 3 PD -- 3 FF
-
Quinn (1) --------- 52 TT - 19 TFL - 11.0 sk - 12 QBH -- 3 PD -- 6 FF
-
* Romeus' stats are 2007-09 only (inj 2010)

I'm beginning to like Acho. The report that he's been getting private tutoring in FLA on his own for making the switch to 3-4 OLB, in combination with his stats has me now liking him more than Reed, in spite of Reed's athleticism. I'm beginning to wonder if Reed isn't a player more like Guyton but in a bigger package.

This is great. Do you have Von Miller's numbers by chance?

 

[Seneschal2]

This is great. Do you have Von Miller's numbers by chance?

NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL

 

[bucky]

NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL

Thank you!

 

[jsull87]

The reality of the situation is that all the top 3-4 OLB type players have a wart or two.

Quinn - Might be the best suited to our defense, but has health and character issues.

Kerrigan - Best at setting the edge and is relentless as a pass rusher, but too stiff for coverage duties.

Smith - Pure 4-3 DE who happens to have the right measurables.

Reed - Projects well as a pass rusher and might become adequate in coverage, but is horrible at setting the edge.

As I have been stating for the past several years, we all want a stud pass rusher, but the reality is from where we are drafting, available stud pass rushers are not three down players. Those types are already off the board by #5. And BB only uses first round picks on three down players.

Does BB change this year and take a guy that projects as a less than three down guy?
-For the past decade the answer has been NO! He'd rather trade valuable draft picks for a bum like Burgess than draft a less than perfect kid.

So what is different this year?
- Cunningham is what is different. He took a kid fairly early in the draft and the kid showed that he could pick up the system fairly quickly and BB could scheme to cover most of Cunningham's faults and growing pains away.

I myself would be very happy if BB took Wilkerson and Taylor in round one and we came back with Reed or maybe even Kerrigan at #33. If both those OLB's are off the board by #33, BB can come back to the position later in the draft with a Keiser or Friday type.

from that description i think you will find kerrigan is the choice

 

[Off The Grid]

For what it's worth, "stiffness" is really just excess residual muscle tension lack of coordination, and it's very simple to correct. If that's the big knock on Kerrigan I'm all for getting him.

Thanks for the education, I must have been confused because all my football coaches have always used the word "stiffness" to mean "Not possessing elite athletic skills".

And as a former strong safety that got moved to fullback in college, I am extremely familiar with the pain the word "stiffness" can cause.

No offense, Snake, but that was a BLASTER!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Maybe there is a misconception of what "OLB dropping into coverage" means.

Remember the Patriots play a soft zone defense most of the time. That means each defender is primarily responsible for their "area" but also responsible for providing help in secondary assignments. The defender has to be able to react (change of direction, quickness and arrive with bad intentions) to opposing players in their "area" and in secondary help assignments.

So an OLB dropping into coverage must

- be able to back pedal to the correct zone while reading the offense.
- anticipate open/soft spots in the zone.
- change direction and be on the move the second the QB's eyes come into their area and an opposing player is there.
- burst to the receiver.
- arrive with nasty intetnions and secure the tackle. No YAC for the opposition.

Now what you really have to do is ask yourself is if Dallas Clark runs a shallow out to the sidelines after the WR has cleared out the CB, can Kerrigan 1.) recognize it. And 2.) react or burst sudden enough to get out there and cover it. Also if Kerrigan can't get there in time to prevent the catch, can he arrive there in enough time to prevent YAC?
Or is he not athletic enough to do this and will a safety then be forced to make the tackle 25 yards down field from the original catch.

This is just my thought, but I think no way, he is too stiff.

However if Indy has the ball and it is 3rd and 9, would I rather have Kerrigan or TBC coming off the edge after Manning with his hair on fire? No doubt it is Kerrigan in my mind.

Great Synopsis, per usual, Brother Jones. Thanks, man.

 

[Off The Grid]

Much like in Sheard's case, the paucity of OLBs who fit BBs measureables are causing massive grade inflation.

A strong point, indeed.

I have a lot of love for Jabaal Sheard and Brooks Reed...But those guys are simply way too expensive for my tastes.

Most won't agree with me, I guess, but it seems to me that the ROI on D Line Grizzlies tends to offer FAR more than that of the Flankers available in this Draft.

There are so many teams converting to the 3.4 ~ and such a lag between the Pros doing so and the college teams doing so ~ that, as Dry points out, the Market Value of any Flankers with a modicum of skill gets dangerously BLOATED.

No way in HELL do I want to spend #28 or #33 on Reed or Sheard. GOD, no.

***

There's nothing wrong with our O Line ~ or our O ~ that a Tenacious D won't obviate.

***

And there's nothing wrong with our D that raising our Front 7 to its formerly extraordinary level won't fix.

***

Any Patriot fan who witnessed our 2004 Super Bowl Campaign ~ where we won the SUPER BOWL with Rodney Harrison and a whole bunch of ROOKIES manning the Secondary, because our Front 7 was extraordinary ~ need not doubt that.

If we're going to spend Draft Capital on Flanker ~ and I ADAMANTLY believe we SHOULD ~ I think we NEED to after Aldon Smith.

Otherwise: just wait for Late Round Value.

Most importantly: do NOT let another year go by without bringing our Front Line back up to its formerly amazing level.

As the D Line goes, so goes the rest of the Defense.

The Ripple Effect IS disproportionate...and it always HAS been.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Kerrigan #s don't add up. When you look at his sack total it is spectacular 30.5 very nice. But only 2 qbh's? Maybe Box or someone can expain?

There is no consistent reporting standard for QBH, some schools track the stat, others don't bother. Further, there is no one authority collecting that data and trying to standardize the measurement. Sheard's school is reporting QBH, it could be he was that effective, it also could be a student coaching assistant just checked the box more when he felt like it, or in Kerrigan's case failed to check the box because it was too much trouble. NE uses their own scouting in games and reviewing tape to get that data, Cincinnati takes it all on faith ... it's why I try to watch as many games as I can to give me some basis for this time of year.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There is no consistent reporting standard for QBH, some schools track the stat, others don't bother. Further, there is no one authority collecting that data and trying to standardize the measurement. Sheard's school is reporting QBH, it could be he was that effective, it also could be a student coaching assistant just checked the box more when he felt like it, or in Kerrigan's case failed to check the box because it was too much trouble. NE uses their own scouting in games and reviewing tape to get that data, Cincinnati takes it all on faith ... it's why I try to watch as many games as I can to give me some basis for this time of year.

Nothing can substitute for actual game tape.

But you would think that the NCAA for all the billions they take in could afford to create a standardized statistic metric.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

And there's nothing wrong with our D that raising our Front 7 to its formerly extraordinary level won't fix.

***

Any Patriot fan who witnessed our 2004 Super Bowl Campaign ~ where we won the SUPER BOWL with Rodney Harrison and a whole bunch of ROOKIES manning the Secondary, because our Front 7 was extraordinary ~ need not doubt that.

This is why I believe we need to draft Wilkerson and Taylor in the first round.

Our D Line would have quality and quantity. And be very versatile.

Wilkerson - Wilfork - Warren
Deaderick - Taylor - Wright
Pryor

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Nothing can substitute for actual game tape.

But you would think that the NCAA for all the billions they take in could afford to create a standardized statistic metric.

You would think ... :ugh: :confused2: :beersign:

 

[Off The Grid]

And there's nothing wrong with our D that raising our Front 7 to its formerly extraordinary level won't fix.

***

Any Patriot fan who witnessed our 2004 Super Bowl Campaign ~ where we won the SUPER BOWL with Rodney Harrison and a whole bunch of ROOKIES manning the Secondary, because our Front 7 was extraordinary ~ need not doubt that.

This is why I believe we need to draft Wilkerson and Taylor in the first round.

Our D Line would have quality and quantity. And be very versatile.

Wilkerson - Wilfork - Warren
Deaderick - Taylor - Wright
Pryor

Oh my GOD.

Can you @#$%& IMAGINE the Havoc we could WREAK???

*Editor's Note: Mo Wilkerson is not my man. It's the PRINCIPLE of what Brother Jones proposes ~ Double Dipping on Dirty Dog Defensive Line Dynamos ~ that has me all AFLUSTER.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Why Brooks Reed?

I guess everyone wants another Pink Pachyderm:

Pink Brooks:

Pink Steve:

 

[DW Toys]

A strong point, indeed.

I have a lot of love for Jabaal Sheard and Brooks Reed...But those guys are simply way too expensive for my tastes.

Most won't agree with me, I guess, but it seems to me that the ROI on D Line Grizzlies tends to offer FAR more than that of the Flankers available in this Draft.

There are so many teams converting to the 3.4 ~ and such a lag between the Pros doing so and the college teams doing so ~ that, as Dry points out, the Market Value of any Flankers with a modicum of skill gets dangerously BLOATED.

No way in HELL do I want to spend #28 or #33 on Reed or Sheard. GOD, no.

***

There's nothing wrong with our O Line ~ or our O ~ that a Tenacious D won't obviate.

***

And there's nothing wrong with our D that raising our Front 7 to its formerly extraordinary level won't fix.

***

Any Patriot fan who witnessed our 2004 Super Bowl Campaign ~ where we won the SUPER BOWL with Rodney Harrison and a whole bunch of ROOKIES manning the Secondary, because our Front 7 was extraordinary ~ need not doubt that.

If we're going to spend Draft Capital on Flanker ~ and I ADAMANTLY believe we SHOULD ~ I think we NEED to after Aldon Smith.

Otherwise: just wait for Late Round Value.

Most importantly: do NOT let another year go by without bringing our Front Line back up to its formerly amazing level.

As the D Line goes, so goes the rest of the Defense.

The Ripple Effect IS disproportionate...and it always HAS been.

Can't see BB going DE now. Said this on another post. You have 9 DE's on the roster if you include Wilfork who plays upon occasion. I do see a NT to split time with Wilfork so VW can go to DE in some sub packages and it can save wear and tear on him,
I see Kendrick Ellis late second early third.Some say he is too tall but that can be said about Ngata and Cody as well. That is a myth. Our need is not DE when you study the roster. Of course if Warren , Brace, Pryor and Wright are not healthy, different ball game. Taylor could be a pick but I think we go OLB, interior OL first. DE is not as crucial of a need and the way BB plays the 3-4 they are not pass rushers primarily.

I think Light will be resigned without question for a Pats friendly deal and they both want that. So you have 3 starting OTs with Kaczur still under contract and Manieri is being groomed by Scarnechia. The could move Kczur. I see a guy that could play inside and out like Watkins or Carimi. I think Moffitt in the later rounds.

I say our real defensive need is playmaking Saftey. Chung and Merriweather are thumpers but not great coverage Safeties. Our main problem was not Sacks. We were 14th. Of course pressure is important but we were 30th in passing yards against and......right up the middle of the field. That of course left the Pats as 32nd in getting off the field on third downs. Chung and Merriweather fill the same role. We need a playmaker (Ed reed type) that one of those guys can Team with. Harrison could do both but these guys are decent but are not capable at this time in their careers of doing such.

If you diagnose our biggest "D" problem it is playmaking Safety. They need a Safety who can actually cover. Last years stats without question, documented this. The Safety class rots this year. I see they are looking at big CB Cortez Allen at 6'2" and 200lbs. He played at Citadel and BB has a passion for service organizations because they feature discipline. Perhaps he views Allen as a Safety ala Eugene Wilson? They can get Allen after the 4th. Either that or go FA and see if you can obtain a guy like Weddle. INTs are nice but Weddle had 10 PDF in 2010 and backed that up with 96 tackles. He ran a 4.46 40 and a 6.78 3 cone with a 27 Wonderlic so he has the smarts. Or perhaps Dawan Landry.

After the first few, WR is weak. I say FA there.
DW Toys

 

[cstjohn17]

Can't see BB going DE now. Said this on another post. You have 9 DE's on the roster if you include Wilfork who plays upon occasion.

I say our real defensive need is playmaking Saftey.

I am tired so this will be shorty, sure 9 DEs but outside of Warren they all are below average. OLB is worse than that.

Sure we could use an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu who couldn't... we could also use their front seven's.

Also assuming Light will be resigned is a huge risk, he is a free agent, it only takes one team to make an offer he can't refuse and then the Patriots have no left tackle.

In other words I disagree with everything but appreciate the effort.

 

[Peachhead]

My big attraction to him is he has incredible burst and motor and I'm hoping BB can teach him the rest.

I agree that he shouldn't sniff the first round, but I fear he might get overdrafted (by some other team). The OP's take on him was pretty accurate IMO. He needs to learn A LOT, hopefully he can. If he does learn what he has to I believe he can be outrageously good.

And BB & Co are the best teachers in the business.

 

[Off The Grid]

A strong point, indeed.

I have a lot of love for Jabaal Sheard and Brooks Reed...But those guys are simply way too expensive for my tastes.

Most won't agree with me, I guess, but it seems to me that the ROI on D Line Grizzlies tends to offer FAR more than that of the Flankers available in this Draft.

There are so many teams converting to the 3.4 ~ and such a lag between the Pros doing so and the college teams doing so ~ that, as Dry points out, the Market Value of any Flankers with a modicum of skill gets dangerously BLOATED.

No way in HELL do I want to spend #28 or #33 on Reed or Sheard. GOD, no.

***

There's nothing wrong with our O Line ~ or our O ~ that a Tenacious D won't obviate.

***

And there's nothing wrong with our D that raising our Front 7 to its formerly extraordinary level won't fix.

***

Any Patriot fan who witnessed our 2004 Super Bowl Campaign ~ where we won the SUPER BOWL with Rodney Harrison and a whole bunch of ROOKIES manning the Secondary, because our Front 7 was extraordinary ~ need not doubt that.

If we're going to spend Draft Capital on Flanker ~ and I ADAMANTLY believe we SHOULD ~ I think we NEED to after Aldon Smith.

Otherwise: just wait for Late Round Value.

Most importantly: do NOT let another year go by without bringing our Front Line back up to its formerly amazing level.

As the D Line goes, so goes the rest of the Defense.

The Ripple Effect IS disproportionate...and it always HAS been.

Can't see BB going DE now.

Said this on another post.

You have 9 DE's on the roster if you include Wilfork who plays upon occasion.

Our need is not DE when you study the roster.

Yeah, my humble apologies if my crass ignorance offended you.

Evidently, you conceive "quantity" as being synonymous with "quality."

You might want to check on that.

Put another way: 9 back ups do NOT make ONE Starter, much less TWO.

 

[jsull87]

Yeah, my humble apologies if my crass ignorance offended you.

Evidently, you conceive "quantity" as being synonymous with "quality."

You might want to check on that.

Put another way: 9 back ups do NOT make ONE Starter, much less TWO.

You think Ty Warren is a back up DE? i very much disagree.

The rest i agree are situational DE with Brace/G Warren/Deadrick on run downs

Wright and Pryor on passing downs.

 

[Off The Grid]

Yeah, my humble apologies if my crass ignorance offended you.

Evidently, you conceive "quantity" as being synonymous with "quality."

You might want to check on that.

Put another way: 9 back ups do NOT make ONE Starter, much less TWO.

You think Ty Warren is a back up DE? i very much disagree.

The rest i agree are situational DE with Brace/G Warren/Deadrick on run downs

Wright and Pryor on passing downs.

Yeah, I've made it pretty clear ~ on many occasions, some of them today ~ that I consider Ty Warren to be a guy in an unusual state of transition, but one who I would NOT advise us to start until Halloween at the earliest. I can understand and respect why you'd disagree, though.

Starting caliber?? Absolutely. But it would be foolhardy to pretend he's ready to just jump back in and go Full Throttle. History makes it clear that that would be a mistake.