I have to ask, why is everyone so high on Brooks Reed?

[midwestpatsfan]

I get the appeal at first glance, he has that height, weight, speed that BB mentioned a few years back, but has anyone really watched him play?

I watched 3 games of his this year.(Iowa, USC, and OKie ST.)

The Iowa game showed that he had some raw potential and a prospect for the Patriots, but the USC and OK. St game also showed that he has a lot of work to do.

Right now, he is a one trick pony with a limited skillset in that role. He is a pass rush specialist without any pass rush moves. He has a good first step, but he either trys to speed rush to the outside(and does not have great bend when doing that) or he tries to bull rush.

In the bowl game they ran at him all day long and he was lost out there trying to set the edge. I came away unimpressed and thought he would be a good mid-round pick to try and develop.

On top of that, he admitted himself that he played a very simplistic role in college and has to learn schemes. I just do not trust taking a guy high that is so far behind in basic football knowledge.

Finally, as a guy who admitted that his only job was to rush the QB, to have a career high of 8 his sophomore year is concerning to me as well. For a guy who is going to have to transition to another position and learn from scratch new responsibilities, how many sacks can we expect from him in the NFL?

Reed just doesn't seem like a BB type pick unless that pick is made in the 3rd round or later. I cannot get on board with people wanting him at 28 or 33.
What am I missing here? am I wrong?

 

[dryheat44]

I get the appeal at first glance, he has that height, weight, speed that BB mentioned a few years back, but has anyone really watched him play?

I watched 3 games of his this year.(Iowa, USC, and OKie ST.)

The Iowa game showed that he had some raw potential and a prospect for the Patriots, but the USC and OK. St game also showed that he has a lot of work to do.

Right now, he is a one trick pony with a limited skillset in that role. He is a pass rush specialist without any pass rush moves. He has a good first step, but he either trys to speed rush to the outside(and does not have great bend when doing that) or he tries to bull rush.

In the bowl game they ran at him all day long and he was lost out there trying to set the edge. I came away unimpressed and thought he would be a good mid-round pick to try and develop.

On top of that, he admitted himself that he played a very simplistic role in college and has to learn schemes. I just do not trust taking a guy high that is so far behind in basic football knowledge.

Finally, as a guy who admitted that his only job was to rush the QB, to have a career high of 8 his sophomore year is concerning to me as well. For a guy who is going to have to transition to another position and learn from scratch new responsibilities, how many sacks can we expect from him in the NFL?

Reed just doesn't seem like a BB type pick unless that pick is made in the 3rd round or later. I cannot get on board with people wanting him at 28 or 33.
What am I missing here? am I wrong?

Good post. Much like in Sheard's case, the paucity of OLBs who fit BBs measureables are causing massive grade inflation. I can see Reed at 60 or higher with a modest trade up. He's definitely an effort guy, which is great, and might be able to compete on teams, but I don't think he'll be taking more than 5-8 snaps a game defensively this year.

 

[patchick]

I think we're all struggling with the reality that college "productivity" as a pass rusher is a surprisingly weak predictor of NFL success, especially as a 3-4 OLB. Larry English and Vernon Gholston each put up better college numbers than Clay Matthews and Cameron Wake combined, etc. etc. It's just a very, very hard position to project.

So one reasonable approach is to simply look for good athletes with strong frames who play with relentless intensity and seem to have the will to improve. Thus Reed and Sheard. :confused2:

Personally, I find that the closer I look at this whole class of OLB prospects the less I like them, like usual. But I think it's time to take some chances at the position, so Reed and Sheard are both on my short list.

 

[reflexblue]

It seems this happens every year, a player impresses at the combine and becomes the new 'flavor of the month'. I don't recall his name being mentioned during the season last fall, only recently. I'm very wary about a player when they suddenly look great in the combine or One post season game. I think Mike Mammula

 

[Sciz]

If not for Clay Matthews' success, Reed wouldn't be this popular.

 

[Underdog]

It's the hair.

 

[DW Toys]

I get the appeal at first glance, he has that height, weight, speed that BB mentioned a few years back, but has anyone really watched him play?

I watched 3 games of his this year.(Iowa, USC, and OKie ST.)

The Iowa game showed that he had some raw potential and a prospect for the Patriots, but the USC and OK. St game also showed that he has a lot of work to do.

Right now, he is a one trick pony with a limited skillset in that role. He is a pass rush specialist without any pass rush moves. He has a good first step, but he either trys to speed rush to the outside(and does not have great bend when doing that) or he tries to bull rush.

In the bowl game they ran at him all day long and he was lost out there trying to set the edge. I came away unimpressed and thought he would be a good mid-round pick to try and develop.

On top of that, he admitted himself that he played a very simplistic role in college and has to learn schemes. I just do not trust taking a guy high that is so far behind in basic football knowledge.

Finally, as a guy who admitted that his only job was to rush the QB, to have a career high of 8 his sophomore year is concerning to me as well. For a guy who is going to have to transition to another position and learn from scratch new responsibilities, how many sacks can we expect from him in the NFL?

Reed just doesn't seem like a BB type pick unless that pick is made in the 3rd round or later. I cannot get on board with people wanting him at 28 or 33.
What am I missing here? am I wrong?

In fact I have to disagree. One of his positives was a variation of pass rush moves.His drop backs are the main issue but I would suspect with his speed and desire would come rather quickly. We always pigeon hole everyone to that "Willie McGinnest type". I see him as a consistent pain in the ass to our competitors QBs. I watched his game. He is relentless. He had the fastest 10 yard of anyone of the top ten ranked OLBs including Miller and speed merchant Moch (surprised?) and was the strongest. Will it translate to the field? Who knows but the height, weight, speed and desire seem to indicate a reasonable circumstance.


This is what you posted: Right now, he is a one trick pony with a limited skillset in that role. He is a pass rush specialist without any pass rush moves.
But.........Draft Scout: Has bull and speed rushes and an OK spin move as pass rush technique. Rob Rang:Variety of pass moves. Violent hands. From the Senoir Bowl: Later in the week, when Reed played linebacker and dropped into coverage, his ball skills were as proficient as many of the every day linebackers he played next to.
More from the Senior Bowl:
WOW! (Reed) had three terrific pass rushes in a row. The first was against (Mississippi State left Tackle Derrik) Sherrod who he beat by dipping his shoulder and turning the corner on him. On his second battle against Sherrod, he dusted him with an inside spin move. On his next snap, he went up against Auburn RT Lee Ziemba and this time the 262 pound Reed bull-rushed Ziemba back to where the QB would be. Three snaps, three different pass rush moves for Reed


Look at the board. Quinn and Smith have the same issue as does Kerrigan. I am infatuate with Miller's game but he also has that stigma. Houston and Acho? Same deal. All are DE/OLB players with some flaws.

Ayers as an OLB? Forget him. Should not be on BB's board as he has no pass rush game whatsoever and that is well documented. He is rated as a very solid linebacking presence who will not add pass rush.

In actuality, the only one you can document as an actual NCAA OLB with pass rush skills in the first two rounds, is Bruce Carter but he has injury concerns. I can't see BB waiting to pull the trigger any later than 2nd.

I am of the Reed camp but would take Kerrigan first. I think both Smith and Reed are now the same value.

My question is why is everyone so hot on Quinn? He didn't play in 2010 and he really only had one good year on his body of work. They say his sacks were inflated. He must look the part.
DW Toys

 

[Snake Eyes]

why is everyone so high on Brooks Reed?

He has good measurables and looks like Clay Matthews.

 

[DW Toys]

It seems this happens every year, a player impresses at the combine and becomes the new 'flavor of the month'. I don't recall his name being mentioned during the season last fall, only recently. I'm very wary about a player when they suddenly look great in the combine or One post season game. I think Mike Mammula

Would you say the NEPats Forum superstar binkie Connor Barwin famous?
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

Would you say the NEPats Forum superstar binkie Connor Barwin famous?
DW Toys

Public Service Announcement: This is the annual reminder that Connor Barwin was the Big East sack leader, and Clay Matthews was the pure Combine phenom.

Carry on!

 

[TriplecHamp]

I get the appeal at first glance, he has that height, weight, speed that BB mentioned a few years back, but has anyone really watched him play?

I watched 3 games of his this year.(Iowa, USC, and OKie ST.)

The Iowa game showed that he had some raw potential and a prospect for the Patriots, but the USC and OK. St game also showed that he has a lot of work to do.

Right now, he is a one trick pony with a limited skillset in that role. He is a pass rush specialist without any pass rush moves. He has a good first step, but he either trys to speed rush to the outside(and does not have great bend when doing that) or he tries to bull rush.

In the bowl game they ran at him all day long and he was lost out there trying to set the edge. I came away unimpressed and thought he would be a good mid-round pick to try and develop.

On top of that, he admitted himself that he played a very simplistic role in college and has to learn schemes. I just do not trust taking a guy high that is so far behind in basic football knowledge.

Finally, as a guy who admitted that his only job was to rush the QB, to have a career high of 8 his sophomore year is concerning to me as well. For a guy who is going to have to transition to another position and learn from scratch new responsibilities, how many sacks can we expect from him in the NFL?

Reed just doesn't seem like a BB type pick unless that pick is made in the 3rd round or later. I cannot get on board with people wanting him at 28 or 33.
What am I missing here? am I wrong?

You basically just described Clay Matthews. Now look at what Clay has done in the NFL. You now have your answer. They aren't the same prospect but they have alot of similarities in their games and look. (see Barwin/Vrabel comparisons)

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think we're all struggling with the reality that college "productivity" as a pass rusher is a surprisingly weak predictor of NFL success, especially as a 3-4 OLB. Larry English and Vernon Gholston each put up better college numbers than Clay Matthews and Cameron Wake combined, etc. etc. It's just a very, very hard position to project.

So one reasonable approach is to simply look for good athletes with strong frames who play with relentless intensity and seem to have the will to improve. Thus Reed and Sheard. :confused2:

Bingo. Which is why BB doesn't usually spend early picks on OLB projections. I still think we don't take an OLB conversion before round 2. Any time in round 2 is fine with me. But I very much doubt we take one at 17 or 28. Brook Reeds looks like one of the better prospects to be had in the early round 2 range if he lasts that long. There are a couple of other guys too like Sheard and Houston that have been mentioned. I just don't see these guys in the 1st though.

Aldon smith? Watch some of his games. Like the one against Illinois. He plays with both hands in the dirt. How will he convert to standing up? You just can't tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSG8ETv7_ts

 

[reflexblue]

Would you say the NEPats Forum superstar binkie Connor Barwin famous?
DW Toys

Don't know what the above means. There were maybe 8-9 names bandied about last fall when it came to possiblitys for the pats...... Fairly, Derous, Kerrigen, A Smith, Watt, D Bowers, V.Miller, J Beal, Quinn, C Jordan, and J Crick. I Never heard Reeds name mentioned until about 3-4 weeks ago around the time of the combine. This makes me very werry, i wouldn't like to see a high round pick used on someone that all of a sudden bolted close to the front of the pack by combine numbers. And thats what it sounds like its going to take now to get this kid.

 

[patchick]

Don't know what the above means. There were maybe 8-9 names bandied about last fall when it came to possiblitys for the pats...... Fairly, Derous, Kerrigen, A Smith, Watt, D Bowers, V.Miller, J Beal, Quinn, C Jordan, and J Crick. I Never heard Reeds name mentioned until about 3-4 weeks ago around the time of the combine. This makes me very werry, i wouldn't like to see a high round pick used on someone that all of a sudden bolted close to the front of the pack by combine numbers. And thats what it sounds like its going to take now to get this kid.

I actually don't see any inconsistency here. You listed 11 players who were subjects of early talk, and only one of them (Beal) has any real chance of being available at #28. In fact, It's perfectly possible that he'll be the only one available at #17. So now everybody's looking to the next tier of DE & OLB prospects. It's not like we wouldn't still prefer a first round of Dareus and Miller -- it's just the natural, necessary next step.

 

[Patriot Missile]

It's tough too find LB's in the first 2 rounds. The Patriots normally don't draft them in the first 2 rounds as you well know. It's even harder to project DE to LB converts unless you are able to see them play in space which most DE's aren't asked to do in college.

Sometimes all you have is film that showed he had a high motor,strength, good instincts and never gave up on plays. The other factors are the combine,interviews and personal workouts. Does he work in your scheme? Breaking down film on "any" player coming out of college you will find mistakes and tendencies that will need to be corrected at the next level. The question is do you think you can fix and mold the guy? You can only evaluate so much and noone ever said the draft is an exact science. Players bust and that is just as much a part of the draft as finding Tom Brady and Terrel Davis.

When looking for a pass rusher I like to look at the 10 yard splits. And Brooks Reed is one of the best in that category. Matter of fact he matches up well against the best pass rushers coming out of college in 2011. I'm not saying because he has a fantastic 10 yard split he is the next LT either. I'm sure you can find many examples of busts with similiar numbers.

Behind the times: The Ten-yard split | National Football Post

I don't think anyone is advocating him as the best OLB in this draft. It's easy to get swallowed up in his numbers though. But as of right now he has the size and tools to be a Patriots LB. So for a 2nd round pick I personally see him not so much a risk as some. Belichick on the other hand may think this guy is crap? Who knows? Picking a LB for the Patriots is like having World Peace. How do you achieve it?n

 

[zimmy]

For what it's worth Andy Hart of PFW spoke to Reed at the combine and suggested he wasn't the brightest. Apparently he played in a very simple scheme and might be a bit of an idiot. Considering what BB demands of his linebackers I don't see Reed as our guy if the intelligence issue is true.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The reality of the situation is that all the top 3-4 OLB type players have a wart or two.

Quinn - Might be the best suited to our defense, but has health and character issues.

Kerrigan - Best at setting the edge and is relentless as a pass rusher, but too stiff for coverage duties.

Smith - Pure 4-3 DE who happens to have the right measurables.

Reed - Projects well as a pass rusher and might become adequate in coverage, but is horrible at setting the edge.

As I have been stating for the past several years, we all want a stud pass rusher, but the reality is from where we are drafting, available stud pass rushers are not three down players. Those types are already off the board by #5. And BB only uses first round picks on three down players.

Does BB change this year and take a guy that projects as a less than three down guy?
-For the past decade the answer has been NO! He'd rather trade valuable draft picks for a bum like Burgess than draft a less than perfect kid.

So what is different this year?
- Cunningham is what is different. He took a kid fairly early in the draft and the kid showed that he could pick up the system fairly quickly and BB could scheme to cover most of Cunningham's faults and growing pains away.

I myself would be very happy if BB took Wilkerson and Taylor in round one and we came back with Reed or maybe even Kerrigan at #33. If both those OLB's are off the board by #33, BB can come back to the position later in the draft with a Keiser or Friday type.

 

[Snake Eyes]

The reality of the situation is that all the top 3-4 OLB type players have a wart or two.

Quinn - Might be the best suited to our defense, but has health and character issues.

Kerrigan - Best at setting the edge and is relentless as a pass rusher, but too stiff for coverage duties.

Smith - Pure 4-3 DE who happens to have the right measurables.

Reed - Projects well as a pass rusher and might become adequate in coverage, but is horrible at setting the edge.

As I have been stating for the past several years, we all want a stud pass rusher, but the reality is from where we are drafting, available stud pass rushers are not three down players. Those types are already off the board by #5. And BB only uses first round picks on three down players.

Does BB change this year and take a guy that projects as a less than three down guy?
-For the past decade the answer has been NO! He'd rather trade valuable draft picks for a bum like Burgess than draft a less than perfect kid.

So what is different this year?
- Cunningham is what is different. He took a kid fairly early in the draft and the kid showed that he could pick up the system fairly quickly and BB could scheme to cover most of Cunningham's faults and growing pains away.

I myself would be very happy if BB took Wilkerson and Taylor in round one and we came back with Reed or maybe even Kerrigan at #33. If both those OLB's are off the board by #33, BB can come back to the position later in the draft with a Keiser or Friday type.

For what it's worth, "stiffness" is really just excess residual muscle tension lack of coordination, and it's very simple to correct. If that's the big knock on Kerrigan I'm all for getting him.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

For what it's worth, "stiffness" is really just excess residual muscle tension lack of coordination, and it's very simple to correct. If that's the big knock on Kerrigan I'm all for getting him.

Thanks for the education, I must have been confused because all my football coaches have always used the word "stiffness" to mean "Not possessing elite athlectic skills".

And as a former strong safety that got moved to fullback in college, I am extremely familar with the pain the word "stiffness" can cause.

 

[Water Boy]

It's tough too find LB's in the first 2 rounds. The Patriots normally don't draft them in the first 2 rounds as you well know.

Jerrod Mayo - 1st Round
Jermain Cunningham - 2nd Round
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round