I can not see how Gutierrez is not by far the #2 QB now

[stcjones]

Cassel has trouble reading defenses, from what I can tell. Yeah, the line isn't buying him enough time, but he isn't adjusting and audibling as well as Gutierrez to pressure situations.

The biggest problems that this guy has that I don't see how you can correct are: Locking on one receiver.....NOT checking down and giving the defenders every opp to pick it off......Bledsoe had the same curse....but he had such a cannon that even if the defender knew where it was going....they still could get beat......Secondly.....very slow reaction time.....Thirdly, he seems frequently confused with trying to read defensive packages....and lastly, he has that dry heaving, shi^tting in his pants look most of the time......not what you need in big pressure games.....

 

[Deus Irae]

Why WOULDN'T fans be excited with Gutz play and disgusted with Cassel's???... I do think that last night our O line's abysmal play did not help Cassel's cause....but you need to react faster when you are in there.....Gutz (with some Philly starters in there) dealt with similiar collapses of our terrible OL and made something happen......Lastly, before some of these mediots start attacking Gutz for making "Jump ball throws" they should listen to several of their colleagues on NFL network who were saying "These out routes to the endzone and the throws that allow the receiver to go up and make a play on the ball here....reminds me an awful lot of Tom Brady" Now, let's not go too crazy here.....but think about it.....Brady throws alot of those touch passes and high "jumps" in the endzone......

Brady throws them to Randy Moss. Big difference. And, for the record, Randy Cross knows as much about the passing game as those 'colleagues on NFL network'.

 

[stcjones]

Oh,Give me a freaking break - Who was the only QB that was SO BAD in last years game against 1-15 Miami that Brady had to actually come back in after Jason Taylor was practically HANDED the ball from Casell and went for the pick six during the REAL REGULAR season so Brady had to come in because Casell was ready to give Miami new hope by sucking up the whole fu(king field that day in the short time he was in to PROTECT the lead? - Thats one of many fu(k ups Casell has shown so far in his pathetic existence on this team - Its a wonder he can hold a clipboard without dropping it.

Lets face it and for those who don't, you are just BSing not only us but yourselves and that is deep down inside we are all saying "Hey BB,Tell us what the Flying Fu(k do you see in this loser doofus of a QB?"

Thats exactly what every fan in Patriots nation is thinking about our #2 at this point without a doubt.

And BTW: I am not a bandwagon fan,I just would like a guy to carry this team should Brady inevitably get injured sometime - Cassel is not talented enough to provide serving Gatorade to the bench players let along running this offense IMO which is why it is so frustrating as to what he actual has done to keep him here.

Maybe he does stand up comedy in the locker room when the team is trailing at halftime to keep the guys hopes up? - Possibly THATS the reason

Amen brotha.........Actually Cassel dropped the clipboard 8 times last season and puked on his playbook twice during the playoffs......just wanted to set that straight.....

 

[stcjones]

I guess your right, BB must not know ho to evaluate talent, especially when it comes to QB's.

I really think he is nowhere near as bad as what you think you are seeing, all things considered. Things such as protection, running game, game plan etc etc.

Well in all honesty, I think that BB and Bill Parcells are the same when it comes to PROVING that a guy that they picked up is GOING TO BE A STAR.....No matter what.....They are going to prove all the critics wrong,.......they, and ONLY they see that special something in that player that everyone is scratching their head or cursing at........and they are going to keep running that player until either somehow.....he finally does get something going.....or the pressure of the fan angst finally pushes them (BB) to move the player out......It is arrogance here in regards to BB and Cassel.....NO ONE had Cassel even getting drafted.....No one knew enough about the kid as he hardly played in college....Anyways, I would expect that the disgust of the fans at this point.....and BB's inability to provide the kid any further excuses....should lead to the end of the Matt Cassel experiment....

 

[stcjones]

Deus - You may very well be the ONLY fan in Patriots Nation who sees Cassel in any other light but a worthless piece of garbage other than holding a clipboard (with both hands so he doesn't drop it)

Are you maybe a relative of Matt? - Must be

No actually....Mo Lewis is an even BIGGER proponent for Cassel.....how these guys can find a silver lining and confidence in Cassel at this point.....is absolutely mind numbing.....Appreciate everyone's opinions on here....but let's get real on Matt Cassel.....The guy just doesn't have IT....and IF he has to come into a game in relief of Tom Brady....we are in deep Chit (sp) .....

 

[Metaphors]

This year in camp, it was a whole different story. #16 looked awful to me. And when he's taken the field in preseason games, the offense has looked totally out of rhythm. Something seems seriously wrong when Cassel gets on the field.

That's what I see. You may see something different, and I'd be happy to hear about it. But a simple statement that everything I've seen is "incorrect" doesn't persuade me of anything.

Cassel has been pretty bad on the whole, but if you look at his situation in context it paints a little different picture...not necessarily better, just different.

His time in the first preseason game was a complete mess. His footwork and delivery were a disaster. However, I looked specifically at his mechanics in the last 2 games and they seemed fine.

In previous years, I noticed that he didn't have much success throwing outside the numbers. Didn't pay much attention to it since he was still developing. This year I've become convinced that he just doesn't have what it takes to get completions outside. He seems to get tentative, his delivery is slow and his accuracy is awful.

The middle of the field is a different story. He seems more decisive, gets the ball out on time and generally hits his target. Unfortunately, you can't make a living without being to threaten over one-third of the field.

Now check out the teams he has faced this preseason. They have compressed their defenses into the middle of the middle of the field and brought a good amount of middle pressure. That would never work against Brady but Cassel doesn't have the skills to make the defense pay outside. This is fatal flaw IMO and should signal the end of Cassel's time in NE.

I think Cassel has played reasonably well under the circumstances and certainly better than people are giving him credit for. However, I've come to the conclusion that he is fundamentally limited in what he can do and that limitation gives defenses too big an advantage for Cassel to be successful if pressed into duty. Good guy, solid skills but time for him move on.

Cassel drops back to pass and throws the ball to the sideline.
Where'd it go?
Right in the lumberyard.

 

[stcjones]

Brady throws them to Randy Moss. Big difference. And, for the record, Randy Cross knows as much about the passing game as those 'colleagues on NFL network'.

Don't get your point.....so if Gutz throws the same pattern to the end zone to Randy Moss it is somehow different to you? I am not saying Gutz is Tom Brady....there will never be another Tom Brady.....But lets be honest here.....Brady throws a lob pass to the endzone and Moss jumps up and grabs it for a TD...and it is pure genius and incredible talent......Gutz throws the same pass to C Jackson last night and all of a sudden guys like Cross are saying "He better watch throwing those jump ball passes....they can get him in alot of trouble" (Not verbatim obviously)......puh-leese....Give me a f'in break....Gutz showed great touch last night....and did a few "Brady" classics.......give him some credit....

 

[patchick]

That's the whole point. I'm not evaluating Cassel under the circumstances. How is it fair for a fan to evaluate the #2 quarterback when he's playing in these conditions?

Let me put it another way....

List for me the #2 quarterbacks in the NFL that you would expect to play well if they were:

1.) Playing against the opponent's #1 defense
2.) Playing without a game plan against teams using game plans
3.) Playing behind an offensive line missing its best run blocker, its starting left tackle, and frequently its starting center, as well as playing the starting right tackle out of position for one of those 3 games
4.) Playing all the above against the following defenses: Ravens, Eagles, Bucs

But Deus, of course you're evaluating him! You have stated unequivocally that he has played quite well, despite the consistent bad play around him. But now you're saying that he didn't play well, but it's not his fault because of the bad play around him? Or perhaps that when the whole offense looks bad, we can draw conclusions about every player except the QB?

When the whole offense looks consistently discombobulated under a QB, that's not a blanket excuse for the QB -- quite the contrary.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Well in all honesty, I think that BB and Bill Parcells are the same when it comes to PROVING that a guy that they picked up is GOING TO BE A STAR.....No matter what.....They are going to prove all the critics wrong,.......they, and ONLY they see that special something in that player that everyone is scratching their head or cursing at........and they are going to keep running that player until either somehow.....he finally does get something going.....or the pressure of the fan angst finally pushes them (BB) to move the player out......It is arrogance here in regards to BB and Cassel.....NO ONE had Cassel even getting drafted.....No one knew enough about the kid as he hardly played in college....Anyways, I would expect that the disgust of the fans at this point.....and BB's inability to provide the kid any further excuses....should lead to the end of the Matt Cassel experiment....

You are really a piece of work. This made me

BB doesn't give 2 Chits as you say about your or any other fanboys angst... and the only real arrogance here is in you believing you know more about player personnel than a first ballot lock HOF NFL HC.

 

[Deus Irae]

But Deus, of course you're evaluating him! You have stated unequivocally that he has played quite well, despite the consistent bad play around him. But now you're saying that he didn't play well, but it's not his fault because of the bad play around him? Or perhaps that when the whole offense looks bad, we can draw conclusions about every player except the QB?

When the whole offense looks consistently discombobulated under a QB, that's not a blanket excuse for the QB -- quite the contrary.

1.) I didn't evaluate him over the course of preseason games, although I've asked people like BOR for their opinions. Belichick spoke about him in his Q&A. I listened to Cross during the game, watched Cassel get let down by teammates who clearly aren't focusing on these games, and read the BB Q&A. Now if you want to take issue with how I described BBs interpretation and Cross' analysis, you go for it.

2.) It's not Cassel's fault if Moss starts upfield too early, just for one ridiculously obvious example. Cassel could be the worst QB in the history of all sports and that still wouldn't be his fault. It still wouldn't be his fault that Britt couldn't have blocked a dead man last night, and it wouldn't be Cassel's fault that holding calls were the result.

3.) You people have allowed the Super Bowl loss to infect you like a disease. I feel sorry for you people who can't just relax after an 18-1 season, but have to act like raving lunatics on the warpath about exhibition games.

Cassel has played 3 games this 'preseason'. He was absolutely not on his game in game 1, getting a 0.0 rating. However, 75.8 and 67.6 rated games have followed that. Those aren't great ratings but, given his circumstances, they are certainly deserving of far better treatment than the mob has given.

P.S. You still haven't listed the #2 quarterbacks that you'd expect to play well under the given circumstances.

 

[Raffy15]

if i was on the sidelines i would have given cassell a cross punch right to his chin........ probably would have knocked him out cold i was so upset!

 

[NormZauchin]

The irony of all the armchair scouts talking about what they see as if they know more than Belioli continues to amuse.

Now, Gut, on the strength of a bunch of jump ball passes and throws to wide open receivers is suddenly the next Rohan Davey, err the next Michael Bishop, err..... the next Tom Brady.

I don't know how the QB battle will shake out, I don't know what the parameters have been for the various quarterbacks while on the field, and I'm concerned that this team is in trouble no matter who lines up under center if it's not Brady. However, I'm reasonably sure that it's not going to come down to Belichick saying "What the hell have I been thinking for 3 years with this kid?".

A few contrarian diehards continuing to defend Cassell's place on the roster despite poor performance after poor performance continues to amuse.

I doubt if anyone on this board thinks that Belichick would or should second guess himself for picking Cassell and having him on the roster for three years. He was an experiment, a long shot from the beginning. It's Cassell's place on the roster after the conclusion of last season that is the cause of concern. After improving during his first two seasons, he regressed in his third. This pre-season has been his worst.

I question Belichick (I know it's heresy) for apparently losing faith in Cassell in last year's Miami game, yet not pursuing a veteran QB in the off season. Despite what many have said on this issue, not all backups are equally useless and virtually none have a resume as devoid of achievement as Cassell.

 

[spacecrime]

A few contrarian diehards continuing to defend Cassell's place on the roster despite poor performance after poor performance continues to amuse.

By contrarian diehards, you are referring to BB and Tom Brady, I assume? BB is the one who played Cassel in the only important preseason game (game 3) and Brady is outspoken in his evaluation of Cassel.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I question Belichick (I know it's heresy) for apparently losing faith in Cassell in last year's Miami game, yet not pursuing a veteran QB in the off season. Despite what many have said on this issue, not all backups are equally useless and virtually none have a resume as devoid of achievement as Cassell.

Two points here:

(1) How do you know that it wasn't Tom Brady lobbying to go back in, rather than Belichick "losing faith" in Cassel? [Brady is on record as saying he would have refused to leave if they had tried to pull him at the start of the third quarter.]

(2) For the love of God, if Belichick completely lost faith in Cassel, as has repeatedly been claimed, why did he come in before Gutierrez against the Redskins?

 

[fgssand]

A few contrarian diehards continuing to defend Cassell's place on the roster despite poor performance after poor performance continues to amuse.

I doubt if anyone on this board thinks that Belichick would or should second guess himself for picking Cassell and having him on the roster for three years. He was an experiment, a long shot from the beginning. It's Cassell's place on the roster after the conclusion of last season that is the cause of concern. After improving during his first two seasons, he regressed in his third. This pre-season has been his worst.

I question Belichick (I know it's heresy) for apparently losing faith in Cassell in last year's Miami game, yet not pursuing a veteran QB in the off season. Despite what many have said on this issue, not all backups are equally useless and virtually none have a resume as devoid of achievement as Cassell.

Use your eyes, please. You say Cassell has regressed this year but you fail to SEE why. He is going against the 1's as opposed to other years when he, as Gutz & O'Connell are this year, going against the 2's & the 3's.

People are trying to judge Cassell on 3 preseason football games this year, with no game plans, other teams blitzing, all with make shift offensive line - evidently, only a contrarian diehard can SEE what is really going on.

What we have here is the back up to the back up looking much better than the back up syndrome (similar to how well the back up to the starter often looks in pre-season whihc fuels a QB controversy).

 

[mgteich]

Not pursuing a veteran backup??

The time to pursue a veteran backup is in the next 10 days. That's when they are most available on the trade block and on the waiver wire. We have our recommendations. We will see. Belichick has three options. I don't think we have a clue what he will or has decided.

OPTION 1
Keep Cassell for his last year, and then cut or trade him. Despite all the commentary on this board, this still seems most likely. It was Cassell who got the reps against the #1 defense in Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 2
Waive Gutierrez after the last preseason game. Get what we can for Cassell (if anything) and pick up someone from another team through trade or signing. This scenario is also consistent with Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 3
Waive Cassell and keep Gutierrez. If this were the option, he would have started against Philly. This was a great opportunity to give him reps against a top defense, surely important if he were going to be kept.

 

[alvinnf]

Not pursuing a veteran backup??

The time to pursue a veteran backup is in the next 10 days. That's when they are most available on the trade block and on the waiver wire. We have our recommendations. We will see. Belichick has three options. I don't think we have a clue what he will or has decided.

OPTION 1
Keep Cassell for his last year, and then cut or trade him. Despite all the commentary on this board, this still seems most likely. It was Cassell who got the reps against the #1 defense in Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 2
Waive Gutierrez after the last preseason game. Get what we can for Cassell (if anything) and pick up someone from another team through trade or signing. This scenario is also consistent with Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 3
Waive Cassell and keep Gutierrez. If this were the option, he would have started against Philly. This was a great opportunity to give him reps against a top defense, surely important if he were going to be kept.

They were showcasing Cassel in hopes of getting something for him, there no way they keep Cassel. He can't play..... Gut looks as though he belongs out there Cassel just does'nt, all the reps Cassel has gotten development is over.

 

[mgteich]

Maybe we were showcasing Cassell to get a potential 6th, but not at the cost of Gutierrez not getting critical reps.

They were showcasing Cassel in hopes of getting something for him, there no way they keep Cassel. He can't play..... Gut looks as though he belongs out there Cassel just does'nt, all the reps Cassel has gotten development is over.

 

[alvinnf]

Maybe we were showcasing Cassell to get a potential 6th, but not at the cost of Gutierrez not getting critical reps.

Maybe something is better than nothing.........

 

[Jimke]

Not pursuing a veteran backup??

The time to pursue a veteran backup is in the next 10 days. That's when they are most available on the trade block and on the waiver wire. We have our recommendations. We will see. Belichick has three options. I don't think we have a clue what he will or has decided.

OPTION 1
Keep Cassell for his last year, and then cut or trade him. Despite all the commentary on this board, this still seems most likely. It was Cassell who got the reps against the #1 defense in Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 2
Waive Gutierrez after the last preseason game. Get what we can for Cassell (if anything) and pick up someone from another team through trade or signing. This scenario is also consistent with Preseason Game 3.

OPTION 3
Waive Cassell and keep Gutierrez. If this were the option, he would have started against Philly. This was a great opportunity to give him reps against a top defense, surely important if he were going to be kept.

If Option #1 takes place, God help us if Brady gets hurt. Hope for several blizzards on game day and
3 to 0 games. How can the Pats cut or trade Cassell after the season when he is a UFA?

Unfortunately, probably the same result for Option 3.

Incidentally, I think Option #1 may apply. Cassell has the best knowledge
of the playbook even though he has been unable to execute the plays.