Welcome to PatsFans.com

I can not see how Gutierrez is not by far the #2 QB now

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOT64, Aug 23, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    The way he stood in the pocket without dancing around and the way he stood in his own end zone confident and waiting patiently for as long as he could for an open DeVree down field at the 30 and the way he took the team down the field twice with the Eagles knowing he was going to throw every down was very impressive.It shows me there should no longer be a competition for the #2 QB on this team unless BB is so close to Cassel he does not want to upset him or maybe Cassel is some type of leader guy or so well loved in the locker room,otherwise to me its not even close anymore.

    Not to mention Gutierrez had that Brady-like presence inside the 10 when the team was getting their final TD on finding Jones right down the center of the end zone with 3 defenders blanketing the WR and throwing the ball low enough to catch it but yet no chance for an interception.

    Did you also notice of how the OL seemed to look more confident and somehow showed better awareness when Gutz was in there compared to how they just were getting killed about at the LOS when Cassel was the QB?

    If there is no sudden call for a vet QB this week I think this race is over and Gutz is #2 by a mile- - If not, there is simply something wrong with this picture - Gutz deserves the #2 job or he is getting majorly screwed by the team.

    I also had some inner confidence that he would lead the team to scores when he was on the field,unlike the gloom and doom I had when Cassel was 'trying' to make a play.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2008
  2. JSn

    JSn Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,449
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    I agree 100%. Still, I'm taking cover from the "low-grade O vs. The low-grade D" barrage that is inevitably headed this way.
  3. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,268
    Likes Received:
    78
    Ratings:
    +229 / 3 / -1

    Anybody know if Brady got any work against the #1s in the 2001 preseason?
  4. g-fresh

    g-fresh Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree Gutierrez looked a lot better than Cassel, but he was not facing the kind of pressure Cassel was. I don't think he went against the Eagles first string defense at all, and the Pat's second and third string offensive line did much better against the Eagles backup defense.

    I think you are right, we gain nothing from hanging on to Cassel, but I would have liked to have seen Gutierrez go against the first string D so we could compare apples to apples.
  5. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,748
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +51 / 3 / -2

    Gutierrez may be an unknown quantity but Cassell is not an adequate #2

    quarterback.
  6. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I do believe there were some first stringers still playing when Gutierrez came in but I am not sure - Regardless of that anyways,It sure does seem though that Gutz has that kind of calmness and confidence that Cassel seems to be vacant of - You could see it in thier face just before the ball is snapped and you could see it in their movements in the pocket.

    Cassel seems to me at times to almost be expecting to get hit or something bad to happen while Gutz seems to look downfield with nothing in mind but making a big play and not worrying what is happening around where he is standing with the ball - Thats the real difference between the two IMO

    Gutz has pocket presence - Cassel has little to none

    I think we can all agree that what makes a good QB or at least a guy who is NFL material is a QB who knows when the pressure is moving in but does not refrain from trying to make a big play knowing that waiting that extra second might mean him getting murdered anyways like Manning and Brady do every game but usually find a way to do it,while the guys who are not NFL material are the guys that get ready to crouch to a fetal position to try and avoid getting killed and forget about what may make a big play and just taking the lumps hoping the next down would be better and safer for them.

    Have you ever seen Brady or Manning get into a fetal position and give up on plays or just throw it up for grabs to avoid a possible annihilation? - Rarily if ever and that is what makes them special athletes at the position
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2008
  7. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    10,160
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +196 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I watched to see how both QBs managed the team. MANAGED is the opperative word here. Look, I don't expect our back up to be Tom Brady. That's impossible. I do expect him to at least be able to move the offense a little. I expect him to make good decisions, and GIVE THE TEAM A FIGHTING CHANCE. Matt Cassel has been out there for three games with the starting Offense and I haven't seen him do that. I want to see how Guitierrez performs against a starting defense before I make up my mind. I've seen Cassel against starting Defenses. The results have been UGLY. Maybe, the Pats would be better off with Veteran as a back up QB, but I don't think that BB wants to go in that direction unless it's absolutely NECESSARY.
  8. BPF

    BPF Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Except for his propensity to lob some of his throws in the flat and on outs, I like Gutierrez, but he needs to correct that problem. I would like to see him start next week vs the Giants, since I'm guessing Brady doesn't play.
  9. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Unless a good veteran QB suddenly becomes available I don't see this team,especially with a complex offensive scheme at times, sign a vet now.

    I thought it was possible,even likely the team would look at a vet before the
    3rd game but I do not see it now.

    Cassel has had 3 games to take his team into the end zone - Cassel is 0 for 15 and that is simply the worst thing a QB can show is inability to take the team into scoring position and Cassel has faced 2nd and 3rd stringers as well and did nothing anyway so its not like he faced starters all the time.

    I think Brady sits once again against the G-Men and Gutz starts against NY next week - Then we will see for sure if he can handle the pressure,I will be surprised if Cassel starts in the final game since I think he is a goner anyway.
  10. BPF

    BPF Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Lombardi thinks we need to get a veteran backup QB.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/08/the-brunch-news/

  11. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    The only vet I would want at this point would be Huard if KC released him but I don't see that happening ,I loved the guy as the backup in 2003 and thought he was an excellent choice then.
  12. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    two points:

    1. Gutz has to prove it against the first unit defense to earn the #2 QB status.

    2. BB might be giving Cassell as many opportunities as possible before finally cutting the string.

    I want to see Gutz get some first team reps next week.
  13. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    If Gutz can even get the team to within a sniff of the opponents end zone next week I think its over at #2 -

    Has there ever been ANY backup (expected #2) QB in NFL History that has ever gone 0-for whatever in terms of TD drives in preseason?,even if its against some starters?.

    This may be a first for ineptness at the #2 QB spot in NFL History for not providing one single TD in 3 maybe 4 games -
    IF there is a stat for this,I want to see if anyone touches Cassel for most pathetic #2 ever
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2008
  14. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    We just don't know what BB is thinking. I'm sure there are going to be some surprise cuts and many hard choices to come. The fact they drafted OConnell is a signal too which put them in the situation of having to cut someone.

    makes you wonder if Brady's shelf life is shorter than we thought... why would they be worried at QB? are the two injuries pre SB and post SB connected? is the shoulder finally ready to snap?

    or if Cassell's days are numbered which seems more likely.
  15. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,104
    Likes Received:
    470
    Ratings:
    +1,038 / 9 / -19

    #87 Jersey

    Given more playing time this preseason I think Gutz would have proven himself to be an adequate backup to Brady. Belichick either feels obligated to Cassell or Brady has pushed for Cassell to get some time. who knows except for Cassell is not the guy ... at least not here..
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,869
    Likes Received:
    127
    Ratings:
    +336 / 21 / -2

    This is fine, except that the Giants won't be playing their first string defense this week.

  17. p8ryts

    p8ryts Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    yes he did
  18. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    i'm sure some will be playing like kiwanuka. you never know who will play or not.
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    You earn playing time here in practice and classrooms and over the course of the off season. That's patent BS that BB feels obligated to any player or that Tom would push for a player to get a role he hadn't earned on his own merits. He doesnt interfere with this FO. He has rarely lobbied for an acquisition, but once that player is here he is on this own as far as earning playing time and reps.
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,720
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    That is exactly why it is so weird that Cassel is not only still on the team but is still #2 - It really is an insult to the other 2 QBs to be below a guy which has not shown one single solitary reason to stay on a professional football team at this point - In fact its shocking to say the least

    Is Gutierrez or even rookie O'Connell THAT BAD OR UNPROVEN to not have surpassed Cassel by now on the roster chart or is BB holding some miracle hope that Casell has a hidden rabbit in that hat that has not come out yet - to me the extra years experience Casell has over the other 2 has amounted to zip.

    Even Stevie Wonder could see that this guy is nothing and still stunned he is still here - Is Flutie still in shape?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>